A few points..

The 1100 hours was total.. This is what he came home with in total. He is the same guy who did 102 hours a month on average.

The multi hours was me.. I was not instructing for EFT, but for Aviator.

I assume he got 800hrs in 7 months but 1100 by the time he left EFT?

I understand that this was not Multi time but with TP/Jet employers looking for candidates with 1,000+ hrs this would be fine for my needs.

I did note you were instructing at Aviator and not EFT, but the hours still look impressive no matter which school you look at :ok:

henriksch how long did it take you to rack up your 807 hours at Aviator? I am just wondering what the ratio is of:

Aviator TT & Multi Time v EFT TT & Multi Time

Thanks again.

PM me if you wish

Im sorry to say it but nowadays turboprop/jet operators are looking for crew with time on type. my 2p.

I understand this, but I have seen some pilots with 800hrs enquiring on here about what Air Taxi firm would likely take them on and all the prooners and telling him with 800hrs the TP Ops will be sending him a xmas cards.

I'm more than happy to start at the bottom of the ladder I'm 25 not 45 so time is on my side ... for a while. :rolleyes:

I'd be more than happy if I could fly a KingAir for a living, a Gulfstream Jet would mean reaching my ambition of flying a Jet for a living ... and a Heavey Jet, I think I'd wet myself. ;)

I think I'd stand a good chance of getting a job with 1,000+hrs (700+ Multi) compared to say an Integrated 250hr Pilot.

I started the APP program in the summer of 2004 at a cost of $50,000 to be paid in 6 equal instalments of $8333.33. This was to inculde 0 hours to MEIR and FI. The ground school was to be at my own expense. I completed the first half of the course pretty satisfied with the instruction, and the management side of things. At this point I returned to the UK to complete my ATPL groundschool with Bristol GS.

My experince with BGS was superb. Thanks Alex and the rest of your staff.

After approximately 6 months I returned to EFT with my 14 ATPL exams passed. It was soon after this I was made aware that the cost of my course had changed to 7 equal payments of $8333! After a few conversations between Ben, Trevor, myself and another student they agreed to honour their original price. After completing my CPL, IR I returned to the UK to complete my IR at PTC Bournemouth complete with a letter and cheque from EFT to cover my training. A few days later I was told by PTC that the cheque was short of the amount to cover the rest of my training (minimum hours obviously) by a substansial margin. It took several phone calls from both myself and PTC to try and resolve the matter. I was then told I would have to pay the the VAT on the course (not EFT) which was not previosly mentioned. After completeing my IR I had to wait several weeks to receive my course completion certificate because EFT still had not sent PTC would they had agreed ( not including VAT).

Other stories including a credit card surcharge on a debit card that I did not agree to.

Instead of returning to complete FAA ratings I had paid for I got out while I still had a few pennies left and went back to my old job as a baggage handler.

PM me with other questions

A fuel surcharge that was based on a percentage of the cousre price. I was therefore being charged a fuel surcharge much greater than a PPL student for doing my initial IR and FI training in the same aircraft burning the same amount of fuel!!!

Most of my dissatisfaction is aimed at the management and on the whole I was very happy with the instruction that I received at EFT although many of the instructors I had have now moved on.

Anyone thinking of going to EFT: the advertised price may seem attractive but YOU WILL PAY MORE. (And im not talking about additional hours required to complete licenses and ratings above the minimum.)

From EFT website:
[QUOTE ]EFT will apply to Airlines on your behalf for airline pilot employment.
[/QUOTE]
Does anyone have any experience of this?

On the current EFT APP program you do not complete your JAA IR until after you have served your sentence as an instructor. You are in no position to apply for the jobs with minimum hours because you have no JAA instrument rating and are effectively a slave of EFT for 18 months instead of advancing your carreer. EFT could put you through the JAA instrument first and then help you apply for jobs while working as an instructor.

If they say that after 1000 hours instructing you will be in a better position to pass your IR: nonsense. Circuit bashing with a PPL student will not help you work out the hold entry and gate angle in an NDB hold.

Please do not do this.

You can't do the JAA IR in Florida though? It's a conversion when you come home to the EU?

And it says in the price budget £4,000 for a IR conversion in the EU and the the website says budget for £5,000 for the conversion. So with it not being in the price how exactly do they have you over a barrell?

I was looking at Multi-APP then when I get back here do a FAA-IR conversion to a JAA in Spain. If I left EFT after only 8 months working as a CFI/FI and clocked the magic 1,000 TT how would they punish me?

What if I couldn't make ends meet as a CFI and had no option but to come home? Just say I couldn't find tenneants to let out my apartment back in the UK? i.e. I'm £600 down every month and have a big mortgage to pay.

@Max

Youre right, but you could go to Spain for 10 days when youre home for xmas anyway... And problem solved..

Going to EFT in January
 

Hi everyone,
I have been reading all the posts about EFT and it is a huge mix of positive and negative statements.
I am going there on January 12 to do my PPL and I will make sure I will post my experiences as I am there.
If anyone is out there at the same time it would be great to hook up. I see most of you are there for commercial purposes which of course is slightly more important than my recreational flying. Anyway would be great to know someone a little before dropping off there for a month completely by myself :8

Take care for now
Kenny

You obviously never instructed then - so I suggest you keep your opinions to yourself.

http://www.flyaviator.com/trevor.html

"On this programme to date we have a 100% success rate and everyone who's completed it has gone on to the airlines"

Is that true?

This video is out of date.

1. They are not the onced approved JAR FTO in Florida
2. The pass rate is definitive not 100% (i now at least three guys how fail there first attempt)

Furthermore i know a lot of guys how went home without any license.

Firstly this thread is about EFT not Aviator.

Captain Easy - either your command of the English language is poor or you are just providing a cursary glance.

EFT are the only fully JAA approved school in Florida.
I.E they offer all the JAA licences and ratings training (Including training towards a JAA Instrument rating.)They also are the only one with all JAA qualified instructors instead of using FAA Instructors.

He never mentioned anything about a 100% pass rate in the video. You'd be very naive to think that a school would maintain a 100% pass rate. Not every student is going to complete within their specified time frame, the courses are sold as minimum licencing hours and minimum time and that requires that your work hard, and are at least of average ability. Some students just don't simply put the work in :ugh: or as life is, just aren't at average ability. :(

Wherever you go to train, add at least a 15% overspend and 20% over run in time - it's just common sense - although many of my peers in training seem to lack this.

Mr. Biggrecian,

You are correct that I never put my FI to use. I am however in a position to comment on my experiance at EFT and the sense in instructing at EFT without a JAA IR if commercial flying in Europe is your end goal. Jobs are out there and if people had their JAA IR they could apply!

Max

As for the pass rates......

I was one of numerous CPL students who failed to gain a first time pass early 2007, in fact I believe EFT had its first CPL first time pass in 2007 around early April of this year, not very impressive, it can't just be 4 months worth of below average students.

Most of the instructors are very good, however my CPL instructor didn't teach me partial panel unusual attitude recoveries as he considered it to dangerous to train! No prizes for guessing what I partialed on.

Part of the problem is having one a/c for the CPL and up to 12 CPL students waiting to use it over the time I was there.

As for budgeting for 15% overspend, this should be based on additional hours required, not hidden costs which was what I found.

To whoever said that there is no IR training, you are wrong, you are trained to get an FAA IR, you are also trained to be a FAA CFII together with all the European licences (but the IR), the only thing that makes the IR impossible to get ANYWHERE outside europe is that the test MUST be legally made inside european airspace.

So there, instructing might not help you calculate the entry to a hold but your FAA IR will...

EFT is a GOOD school, I have first hand experience with it and I don't agree with most negative comments about it, yes, it's a school that wants to make money, you will however get as much as you put into it, both money and effort, when I was there earlier this year getting my JAA PPL there were a lot of students complaining about the planes going tech or the bad weather... it happens EVERYWHERE, there were other types of complaints about the pricing etc... but that is part of the game, there are no "hidden" costs... you get the story straight from the beginning, you MIGHT get your licences in minimum time but usually it takes a little bit more, it's the way it works.

*EDIT* The fact that they only had one aircraft for the CPL test and many many students waiting for a test was definitely an issue and I hope it's fixed by now.

Would I return?
 

Matthew Adams needs to proof his edits before criticising others' English capabilities. Cursory, with an 'O', as in the first letter of oaf and onanist.

I went through the hoops of US training application on the strength of previous postings to this forum and EFT's own website. Between May and July of this year I attended EFT; my heart sank at minute one. I was introduced to the staff and heard nothing but grumbled conversation regarding to where most of the instructors were going to ensure their paycheck did not come from EFT.

Matthew Adams - will you attest that EFT conforms to the requirements laid out in the JAA standards document:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/Standar...%2036%20v2.pdf
Let me see... section 2.5 as a starter for ten?

Matthew Adams - you should confront the CAA on their egregious error of omitting EFT from the roll in the 'JAR FCL 1 Instrument Rating (A) Modular Synthetic Flight Training' section in the document:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/Doc%203...anisations.pdf
by doing so, you would then be correct in announcing that you do all of the courses.

Matthew Adams - Are you absolutely sure that nobody has been trained by FAA instructors in the last 8 months under the EFT banner?

The instructors listed on the website - how many instruct currently at EFT?

How are the UK links?

To anyone looking at EFT as a possible venue for airborne delight, I urge that you read the CAA standards documents, drum up questions and get written answers to those questions. Please go there with your eyes open and ears shut to the EFT siren. If you like what you see, do have fun!

I take it you attended EFT to carry out your PPL?

Since you still obviosuly have no licence - I wouldn't consider you to be a reliable source of information.

Having said that, I just try to prevent a balanced view.

The Instructor to Student ratio should not "normally" be above 6:1 - it isn't normally above 3:1. The majority of my time instructing I had on average 3 students.

APP students are instructed when our capacity is pushed by FAA instructors for their FAA ratings. Given the fact EFT is the only FTO abroad to have the majority if not all of their instructors JAA qualified, this isn't so bad.

Your right EFT does not provide synthetic training - because we don't have a sim!

Polorutz provides the best post I have ever seen about flight training or FTOs.

You get what you put into it!
I learnt as a student not as an instructor that those who leave and moan about schools very quickly move onto their next school to do exactly the same :hmm:

Not True.

CTC in New Zealand
OAT in Arizona
Western Australia Aviation College
Not sure about the Sigmar/Cityjet school in South Africa?
Lufthansa and KLM have schools outside JAR land too I believe.

CarbHeat, good point, typo - meant Florida.

However OAT don't use all JAA instructors - many are just "standardised"

I'm referring to schools which have instructors with full JAA Flight Instructor ratings, including JAA CPLs and IRs.

Most schools just have "standardised" instructors.

eft going there
 

hie

lm in the same process as you are lm going there on the 1st of january do you know any one who has been there for ppl

A bit of generic advice for everyone. This may have been written in the previous 16 pages but I haven't had time to check.
I am assuming some of you are unaware of how EFT operate. EFT lease aircraft from Ari Ben Aviatior then offer JAA approved training, but they charge a significant mark up on the prices at Aviator. EFT (2004 prices) charged a good $100 dollars more an hour on the twin and probably a good $50 dollars an hour on the single compared to the prices paid by Ari Ben Aviator students for FAA training.

Essentially EFT is a very clever business plan, Matthew Adams claims that all the instructors are JAA qualified is true, as that is all EFT is, an office with JAA instructors and leased aircraft; EFT itself holds no capital investment in the School premises or equipment.

The sensible solution is if you are going to train at Fort Pierce do the FAA ratings with Ari Ben and then do conversions back in the UK, that way you will not pay EFTs mark up for the JAA approved training.

There are so many instructors jobs in the UK it is not necessary to sign up to the APP scheme in order to secure an instructors position.

I talked to an EFT student who was there about a month ago and said EFT had her flying the Cessna 172 when she needed to be flying a complex airplane. She said that she pretty much wasted thousands of dollars and months of time there. She eventually left and finished at American Flyers within 2 weeks where with EFT/Aviator she was looking at another couple months.

Hey Fosko,

i knew this girl :bored: The reason why she failed is definitive not EFT. Furthermore you do some training on a cessna for the CPL (approx. 7 - 10 hours), so therefore is absolut bull.... what she said about flying with the Cessna. That they have only one approved complex single A/C (more down than up) that is true and this is a problem but she did it on a multi. Ben the JAA examiner is a nice and fair guy, but he would like to see, that you can fly like a CPL Pilot...... I could say a lot more if i like.

I have been there and have to say that the Flight Instructors are pretty good. The Problem of this school is in my opinion, that they don't have own planes and more FI. I lost a lot of time as well due to broken planes and a lack of FI. Furthermore they should plan more accurate the student schedule. It is stuppid to invite more students (and this happens definitive !!), than FI available. When i have been there, we where at least 5 CPL Students and just two FI (one of them was the HoT and he only fly some days) and just this bloody one arrow. :ugh:

At this time, i would say EFT is not a bad school but i wouldn't go back at this time and i can not recommend it for now. Maybe if they come to grips with the planes, organisation and the ammount of FI, then it becomes a pretty good school.

Cheers

Capt.Easy

Not sure if you're Capt Relax with a different name :confused: (either way ....)

Would you recommend this FTO for the Multi APP course?

When you were there what were you training for? you said the instruction was of good quality but how many hours did it take you? and over what period of time?

Thanks

I'm not Capt.Relax !!!

I can't say anything to the APP Program, because i've done just IR and CPL. If you need information to the APP then ask Cpt. Relax ;-)

cheers

$8000 for a night rating!
 

Thanks EFT!

Good instruction, bad management. Only 1 arrow for CPL which seems to always be in bits. only 2 instructors. Over 30 students.

Needless to say, I won't be back! Went for multi, night and CPL, the only thing finished to completion was my night.

Captain Easy,
I completely agree on lack of this and lack of that at EFT.I am sure ppruners have had a general idea about EFT's reliability.However,i'd like to ask you how do you think it would cost less converting FAA ratings to JAA in the UK?If EFT is charging $100 more on multi(which is higher than that)and $50 more on single(no idea)than what Ariben charges,think how much the FTOs are charging here in the UK and how you struggle converting and going over the hours cos you may not have enough experience in the UK airspace or the instructor rightly or not underestimates your US flight training :rolleyes:

I don't knwo what is cheaper, to convert or do it with EFT.

Why AriBen is cheaper is one simple reason. EFT hires the bloody bad planes from Ari Ben. EFT doesn't own any plane. They just have an office at Ari Ben. Thats it !!

What i know is, that they don't have enough FI's for all this students. I saw at least 3 guys how went home without licence and it was definitve a misstake of EFT (Some guys flew just 5 hours a week :ugh:). The next reason is, that EFT doesnt say, that it take at least 4-5 days to get the approvment of the TSA to start the training and in this time, you stay on the ground or fly backseat :sad:

They should miprove the oranisation and management as soon as possible. No guy how went home said, that (s)he will recommend EFT !!!

eft
 

hie mr easy

l would like to know a few things from you regarding eft lm on my way there lm a bit worried if students are flying 5 hours a week. when did you last attend this school are the ppl students mixed with the cpl students regarding those students who had to go without finishing were they refunded their money

The FI (i think they have now 2 or 3 and about 20 up to 30 students) are the same for PPL or CPL. Yes you get refund the rest of your money what you havent flown but then you haven't a licence :ugh:
You have one advance as PPL, you don't need the arrow. But the Cessnas (i think they have approx. 10) are not in better condition. I never so such bad planes.

There is just one (Cessna) who everything is working for IFR flight. I did my heck ride with one, where the two NAV had an deflection of about 8 to 10 degrees. And for the ILS you need to observe two NAV, because on the upper one just the GS was working and on this beneath, the LOC was accurate.

If you go there, plan at least 6 week for your PPL. The FI are very good but the rest.....no comment.

5 hours a week - i know some guys (including me at one time) who hadnt flown in over 3 weeks!

Its only slightly dearer to do it in the uk, and at least you have a chance of doing it in minumum time in the uk!

eft
 

Reading all these negative comments puts me in a crisis are you saying whats on the brochure its to good to be true. how do they schedule their flights. You sound as if they don't care about their students wheather they complete or not business wise l don't thing it's a good approach lm yet to see for my self but l have been given assurances by eft and completing in short space of time l have been told 'you do the work make your self available for flying then you will complete it. 6 weeks is a long time as you suggest , l cann't even get 4 weeks due to work. Any one on prunne out there now to talk to

Hey i know a guy who is actualy there, but he changed to ari.

The plane schedule is follow: There is a dispatch office and you FI goes to the girl and say he like to fly maybe from 8 til 10 (2hour blocks). But is he late the other FI's catch all planes :\ that happen some (much in my case) time.
Next is, that the FI work just from 8am til 4pm (sometime 6pm) Mo til Sat. So this are 5 legs. If you happy you get one maximum two legs a day. But thrust me you don't get more than 5 legs a week, because the planes have a high fail rate and if a student like to do a check ride, then this guy can catch any plane.

And remember i take one week to get the TSA !!!!!

Give them a call and ask them about this problem and see what they say. My tip is, talk to trevor and not to the girls !!!

eft
 

hie

thanks for your information what do yu mean legs? There seem to be a problem if that's the case.

with leg i mean 2 hours, but remember you have the plane for two hours and maybe you fly 1.5 hours !!

Matty.....

Is this what is really going down over at your place now?

Are there really no instructors? What happened?