Not that I am aware of. However I am put off with the posts and PM's I've had saying that Ari Ben is a little backward in coming forward and although EFT use the same planes etc they are better managed. On this note I *think* I'll stick with the Multi APP with EFT. Also there was a couple of questions asked about P1 time at Ari Ben ... not sure if the same applies to EFT?

Looking forward to hearing more from Cpt. Relax ;)

Hi, sorry I forgot all about it.

I did visit Ari Ben and EFT back in May.

The answer is yes, you can go to Ari Ben and do you FAA training, then to EFT to do your JAA conversions. In fact as far as I understood it, people who are on the EFT APP course are taught by Ari Ben instructors whilst doing the FAA training, its just $20k more expensive for some reason.

The schools seem nice, a little small, it was very busy when I visited. Overall the students I spoke to were happy with Ari Ben, I didnt meet students from EFT, but they are in the same building.

I have made the decicision not to go to Ari Ben or EFT just down to the fact that I didnt like the area, Ft Pierce is not very nice (sorry to anyone who lives there) and I was planning on spending 2 years in the States, so havibg to live there was not an option for me. Apparantly most of the students live in Vero Beach, which is very nice, but I couldnt really afford a car to drive down each day.

Only a small problem, which probably wouldnt put most people off :)

I suggest that you take some time out and visit as many schools in the USA as you can before you spend any money on training, its a large investment you are making, and youve got to make sure that you are 100% happy with what you are doing, if not, dont do it.

Hope this helps, if anyone has any specific questions, I will try to help (please remember though, I was only there for 2 hours)

Thank you very much Davey, It's making me think twice when you mention the two points being the area and the $20k extra. :\

Guess I'll keep my options open.

Thanks again.

"Which he worked out to be $20k cheaper."

Good luck with that.
It's a hell of a lot easier to go from JAA > FAA rather than the other way.
This is a false economy - trust me - I train conversion and most of the time they end up paying a lot more as they DO NOT convert in minimum hours.

If you want to fly JAA > train JAA.
Flying FAA without instructing is a very big false economy.

Davey147, did you find out why EFT students are charged more than the ABA students for accommodation/car hire?

Also, if you did choose to live in Vero Beach, does this affect the relationship with the student and EFT?

I know flight schools in the US generally use students as a cash cow, possible none US students more so.

But looking at EFT's website they go through the FAA licence and then the conversion. So no different to ABA and doing the 'Pro 200 Hour Multi-Engine Course' and then converting the FAA's to JAA's at EFT?

Looking at doing the above but unsure of the cost for converting?

PPL conversion = ? in the US
Multi CPL Conversion = ? in the US
Multi IR Conversion = £5k in the UK

Can you convert an FAA Multi CFII to a JAA FI or does it require taking a full JAA course from scratch?

Thanks :ok:

At the time accommodation was slightly more expensive at EFT than Ari Ben, I dont know why, they were the same houses at Vero Beach. I did ask, but the answer to the question was avoided, so no I cant really give you an answer sorry.

You can convert the FAA CFI to a JAA FI, the course would involve a lot less ground school hours, I cant remember exactly but a search in the lasors would get you the answer.

The EFT APP includes the FAA CFI conversion to JAA FI (R) this is the cut down conversion course.

I agree with BigGrecian going the FAA route isnt really an advantage unless you do some instructing, the prices turn out the same in the end. But the good thing is by going to EFT and Ari Ben, the schools are together, so the conversions shouldnt be a problem. I personally know of a few students who have got their FAA IR in EFT (Ari Ben) and returned to the UK and passed within the minimum of 15 conversion time, I think the school they used was Airways Flight Training.

If you havent done so, take a look on the JetCareers.com forum, this has a forum dedicated to Ari Ben, there is lots of useful info there.

Also if doing the FAA route first, you wouldnt convert your FAA PPL to a JAA one, just go directly for the CPL conversion. The CPL conversion is cheap, probably about $4 - 5k, the same for the JAA FI. Just make sure you get good instuction for the FAA IR, try to get a UK or European instructor who can teach you the European way as well as the FAA way, this way it shouldnt be too hard when you come to convert.

You only need an ICAO PPL (FAA) to start your ATPL theory.

That answers my question I was going to ask next, reason for converting the PPL to JAA was to sit the ATPL exams via BGS and then go back out there and convert my CPL and FI and possible employment with Ariben/EFT. (Seems I don't need to convert after)

After 12 months come home convert the ME-IR to JAA and get an MCC done.

Thanks for your help Davey ... You have a PM coming your way.

Hey
Just my take on the whole thing.. Since I allready did it.
I would do the procourse at ABA.. And while instructing study the ATPLs..
Some instructors have done this. Also now ABA pay their instructors $35k a year.
Also if you study what is required on the procourse, you will have a head start on most of the ATPL subjects. (Mostly POF, Perf, Met, Flight planning, Nav and Radio Nav.. I think..
Then after 2 years (J-1 expire), you convert your FAA to JAA at EFT.
My MEP and CPL conversions were about $3k INCL fees and 170A. (Amazing how much simpler a MEP check ride is when you have 600 hours dual given on a twin..:-))
You can then convert your IR anywhere in Europe you want.. Almost everyone who has just done 500 hours of ME-IR instruction, wont find this to hard..

ABA don't pay their instructors $35,000 a year!

They have adverts for it, but most are still on the $10 - $15 per flight hour and unpaid for the rest. The $35,000 a year job is for US students to stop them going to a flight school which does pay decent money, and you have to commit to staying for a year. With a J1 visa they think you're already stuck there (And they'll cancel it if you so much as interview elsewhere), so they'll still pay you below minimum wage!

Anyone who can live in Ft. Pierce for a year deserves more!

The 'Price' of this scam went up $5000 to pay for it as well.

Anybody care to prove him wrong? I hope so :bored:

I'm calculating my finances on the $35k pa for 18 months and the other 6 months doing the ProCourse. EFT (Trevor) said I would earn over $15,000 per year instructing at EFT so I guess the $10 - $15 per flight hour would be right. But surely ABA can't advertise EARN $35K pa and then change their mind when you get out there after remortgaging my apartment and giving up my job?!?

Think I need to give them a call when I have enough questions to ask. :rolleyes:

They separate between regular instructor pay which is hourly, and the salaried instructors who commit to staying for a year.

Don't budget around completing the pro course in six months. The average is 9-12 for committed students, and remember the listed price is meaningless.

Before you commit to giving up your job, take Daveys advice and go to visit some schools, and preferably take someone with you who can help you look for the right things. I wish I had!

All but one of my pro students did it in 6 months.. One even in 4... This is all for students arriving with a PPL though.. And also at times where the school havde had another 2 year instructor than Pierre, who at times is to busy to keep up.
The list price works here.. The program is set up, so that you will end up within the quoted price (or the instructor gets in trouble), since it includes a "buffer" of hours if you go over.. Only thing not included with the flying portion is the test fees and aircraft rental during theese tests.
I am not an US citizen (You might be able to tell from the spelling:O), and I was offered to go on a contract as an instructor.. Unfortunately I couldnt, but I could easily have stayed for a year in Vero Beach..
But NH2390 is right.. Go see the schools..I also should have... Then I wouldnt have started out on another school....

Two very different opinions then :confused:

henriksch do you fly for a living now?

Yes I do.

Yes two VERY different points of view.. Thats why you should go and find out yourself..

I totally agree with henriksch.

I also studied at Aviator/eft. Delays occur training during training everywhere, just today i lost a recurrent sim session. The training centre has 4 identical new boeing sims and loads of instructors !

I went to Aviator with a ppl and jaa ground school completed. In 6 cumulative months of being there I had jaa cpl / faa Mei/cfii. That included at least a month off for extreme hurricane damage related partying!

Mike is great at making sure student gripes with time/money constraints are resolved at source quickly and efficiently.

I certainly recommend aviator/eft. Especially if i had got $35k a year there!

R

In addition to the quoted price are:

Examiners Fees $2200
Written Test Fees $630
Books (approx) $600
Aircraft Rental for tests(approx) $2000
Fuel Surcharge $1500
Random Admin Fee $200

But the quoted price itself is meaningless. When you are there you're charged a rate for each hour you fly. Adding all that up simply doesn't equal the quoted price.

For the record I am currently employed as a flight instructor (my chosen career, not just hour building), although I don't teach non-US students. I know a lot about providing a quality training environment, and have no motivation other than warning people not to make the same mistakes I did.

My advice would be to find a small school for your PPL cheaply, then do a bit of flying, and visit as many schools as possible and find out what makes a quality environment for you. There are many J1 schools where you can work as an instructor, and make a decent living.

If ABA can work for you or not, you're better off finding out before you invest a lot of money in it!

If you actually read $600 of books, why did you need $2200 worth of exam fees !!


:}

Private Multiengine
Instrument
Commercial Multi
Commercial Single
CFI
CFII

Are $300 each.

MEI (Initial) is $400.

Those costs are totally for a thread on EFT rather than aviator and also out of date.
350 for the initials and 500 for the CFI.

The don't forget the 300 for the JAA Multi
Not forgetting the £712 for the JAA CPL test as well if your doing JAA!

"MEI (Initial) is $400."

Unless you do it at the local FSDO.. Then it is free.

Don't do it
 

OK guys here is the current situation at EFT:

2 full time instructors, 1 part time (although most of time the 3 are present).

Aircraft are owned and shared with Ari Ben Aviator. They are very very old and in terrible condition. By the end of today only 1 twin and 3 cessnas were flyable, and only just. The aircraft are worst I have seen, very poor condition and flown day and night, with little time allowed for servicing and upkeep. Only 1 or 2 cessnas have all navaids working.

With 3 instructors, they have almost 30 students and are due to have more in the next week. If you call they will tell you they can fit you in. Lots of students taking time off work to be here, and then going home without the license / rating that they came here for. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

Also, in the last 3 weeks 2 twins (ari-ben aviator aircraft) have landed gear up. Word is that the FAA are closing in, its getting unsafe here.

I am only one person, but most of the students (at EFT at least) feel the same.

The instructors good at their job, but they have far too much students and charging too much for very bad aircraft. I could tolerate the aircraft but I would need to fly to do so! Schedule system is also the worst.

Needless to say I'm not amused :mad:

Yea, buddy of mine went by Aviator last week, said they had only 2 planes operating! One guy said he went flying only once in a month:{.

JAA
 

Cloudhopper I had EFT singled out as the most appealing place to train in florida/the states, where would you recommend over there?

If you want to train in the USA, then go to an FAA school and get your FAA licences and ratings.

At the moment I personally dont think there are many good JAA schools in the States, so I would stay away from them. There are many good FAA schools though.

If you want JAA training, then do it in JAA land!

Jonny, I'm in the same boat.

I have looked at the hours / reviews from ex-students / cost etc and I think EFT would be my best option (mainly due to the fact I'll work there as a CFI and gaining a lot of Multi time).

With feedback that cloudhopper and tommyboy ae giving I'm really having second thoughts. :uhoh:

I wrote an e-mail to Aviator and the response didn't answer my question ... as if they were hiding something (this put EFT back as favorites), I might even consider Spain or simply do the JAA route in sunny UK/South Wales (I guess that will mean 1hr+ in the car to Bristol/Exeter).

Keep the feedback coming guys, it's a big help to people like myself and many others.

Wonder how Cpt Relax is out there? ... He is on the Multi-APP I believe and did his research for quite some time. Get in touch old friend!!!

Thanks

Don't bother with them
 

I've done FAA in Florida, there's lots of good schools. But JAA - don't waste your time with EFT.....

I wasted 2 weeks having money sucked from me - along with 3 other people I know. For example - 6 weeks a PPL student took and still no solo flight!

PM me if you want any more detail... Its cheap (though still overpriced for florida) but its not worth the savings...

If only I'd have seen more info about EFT on Prune before i went out there...:ugh:

I was in touch with Cpt. Relax, but i don't have any news from him since september, when he supposedly started the course, my guess is that he hasn't even visited pprune, a bit odd considering that he has been there more than 2 months.

Cheapest not always best!
 

Take whatever Trevor says with a pinch of salt when it comes to money.
AlphaMale, if you want to instruct there are many jobs in the UK that pay better than $10 per flying hour.
I completed the FI at EFT in 2005 but did not return due to the financial side of things!
Max

This is spelling trouble for me. I guess IF everything went to plan and it was a perfect world it would be a good deal.

I'm going to start writing a new plan I think :bored: ...

FAA PPL/CPL/IR & CFI and work in the states then convert to JAA CPL/IR

or

FAA PPL/CPL/IR convert to JAA CPL/IR back in the UK and get a FI and work here in the UK on better money but probably making less hours per year on my log.

I could always look into doing the full training in the UK after my PPL.

It is strange that we've not heard from Cpt Relax? I did PM him for an update but no reply? and I keep checking his posts ... nothing? maybe he doesn't have tinternet or he doesn't have anything to say about EFT? :bored:

Time for a new plan :(

Regarding the 15k usd instructing..

I lived with an EFT instructor when I was there. (I was instructing at Ariben), and he made more than 15k a year.

He was there instructing for 7 months, and I think he made around 700-1200 usd every two weeks.

I even think they now have a base salary, on top of the increased hourly pay.
Was told this by another former roommate of mine, who works there now.

And what does he think of the school?

I know it's hard to compare schools as you never do the CPL/IR in two schools to compare.

Well.. Cant speak for him.. But he has been an instructor there now for over a year.

It's always the same.

I've read nothing but good and bad points about EFT for over a year on both UK and US forums :ugh:

AriBen seem to get a bit of a bashing so I guess EFT is just AriBen with better management?

How many hours has your friend built while there for the last 12 months? TT and Multi if you can?

hmm.. Not sure about the guy there now. (I will ask him when he come online), but the guy who were the for 7 months ended up with over 800.. I know this because I ended up with 807 (565 multi), and he had more TT than me.

EDIT: He says 1100 TT

Where is the JAA conversion done after EFT
 

Hi All,

I would like to hear of anyone who has actually done the Faa to JAA conversion. The dollar is cheap and the flying in US is attractive warts and all, I got an email from EFT saying some are going tp Spain, but no details. Looking at some of the threads posts Bournemouth was mentioned, I know the UK standard is good, so how much training and how much Sterling is required after you climb through the EFT route??? Look forward to hearing from someone who has gone from A to Z FAA to JAA with EFT

Cheers

:confused:

I flew 663hrs there as an instructor in around 6.5 months. Most of that was in single engine due to the demand, and the additional surplus of MEI's at the time. Combine that with briefings and as reported i grossed 7-1200 dollars every two weeks.

As you can imagine I chose to work hard there. Certainly beat the FI opportunitys available back home in the UK during winter.

Plus you fridays off put your thursday nights into good use..:}

@CaptainKC

I first did my PPL with EFT, then my ATPL writtens at NAC.

Then I got all my FAA stuff at Ariben, where I instructed and then converted at EFT (Multi rating and CPL) and Aerodynamics Malaga (IR)

My ME conversion was one flight with an examiner.. No training. Had 565 hours on it, and had been instructing on it for a while.

Price: 1,4 hours + 250 usd fee

For the CPL I went out "Timebuilding" with an instructor, who showed me what I needed to know/do, and I then rented the Arrow for about 4 hours solo.

Did the 2 hours 170A.

Did the test.

Price: 1,8 hour test + fee + 640 usd solo + 500 usd 170A

My IR was 4200 Euro.. Quoted and paid.

Hmmm interesting. This is what I was hoping to see and this is what I had planned for.

Some saying Trevor speaks the truth and is a top guy and some saying take everything he says with a pinch of salt.

Planes are old ... nobody tries to prove otherwise. But some saying they are not airworthy (big comment to make)

Additional fees / costs etc are a problem yet some say the website is accurate? I know Cpt Relax has gone out there basing his figures on what the website states, but will he be sent home early for not being able to support himself financially?

I know you can't critisise EFT/AriBen on their quality of instructors as much as although they are employed by the FTO their are basically APP students just like you and me. So the quality of training 2 years ago can't justify the level of training I'll get on my Multi-APP course in the Easter 2009.

I think I need to gather more information and ask Trevor again, might actually phone him this time.

102hrs per month seems fair to me as Trevor said I could expect between 80-120hrs

1,100hrs TT in 7 months is nearly 160hrs per month! That is what I'd like to see going in my log book.

This means 70% of your time was spent in twins? that is exactly what attracted me to this school.

If I could log 100hrs per month with 70 of which being multi time I'd be over the moon.

Thanks for the comments and figures guys and congratulations henriksch on passing your conversions with ease!