Hour building (USA)
 

Hi folks,

A friend and I are looking to hour build in the USA in a multi-engine piston.

Ideally we want to take the aircraft away from base for a couple of weeks at a time to do the grand tour and make a bit of a holiday out of it.

Can anyone recommend anywhere that'll allow us to do this?
We both have CPL/IR's and about 200 - 250 hrs

Thanks!

Air Desert Pacific in Los Angeles are a good place to start. Cheap Seneca's and they will let you take them out of California. Check their web site for more details

http://www.airdesertpacific.com/

Hour Building
 

ADP won't give you the Seneca's unless there is a safety pilot on board. However they have a seminole that is much better with auto pilot and GPS. You will need a ten hour check out in the Seminole but it is a great aircraft and cheap too.

They will allow you to fly into Nevada and Arizona as well but they do not recommend you take the aircraft further.

Birdseed - one of the rules of engagement (that you agreed to when you signed up) is NOT to duplicate posts on more than one forum.

I've locked this one - left the one in Private Flying open.

Please - no duplication or adverts (either to buy or sell) - otherwise...welcome to Pprune.

Building Hrs in USA (together!)
 

Hello,
I'm looking for fellow pilots who are thinking about or better said are willing to built flight time together with others to share expenses ....
I'm thinking about California/USA in july/august this year.
Need some info on where to rent too.
Someone out there with the same idea?
Regards,
R.

FAA/CAA checkout rides (hr building), visas and stuff
 

Sorry if this has been asked before, but:

1) Does the checkout ride for hour building (coming from the UK) constitute instruction and hence necessitate a student visa?

2) Has anyone managed to get a letter from the US consulate (or eqv) stating that a visa is not necessary for hour building. I’ve heard that it can be done, but you have to show them (provide them with the info) that a visa is not actually needed. This would greatly help at passport control with an unhelpful immigration official.

3) How long is the validity of the FAA check on my JAA PPL, i.e. can I fly say a year after the check has been done or is there a validity issue associated with it.

4) Can I have the FAA issued licence sent to my school after it has been cross referenced? (in Florida, or do I have to physically turn up to a FSDO – if so how many are plenty littered around a State, i.e. do I have to chose a school that is close to a FSDO or is there sure to be one near a major town?).

Yes, I know, I’ve searched all of the posts on the subject and the majority of my questions have been answered, but these ones have managed to escape me. I know FFF and Charlie Zulu have written some excellent stuff, could they throw any light on the matter?

Thanks a bunch in advance, W.

Hi Winkiepinkie,

Many thanks for the words above! :O

1)

No. You require a BFR / checkout but a BFR is not seen as flight training. It is merely a revalidation of your FAA PPL. All FAA pilots must have a BFR every two years to keep their certificate valid (even FAA PPLs based on ICAO PPLs).

If however you wishes to have an hour in a seaplane (assuming you don't have a seaplane rating already) then you would require a visa in that case as this would be classed as training for the seaplane rating. (Oh okay a ASES rating. Land based singles are ASEL).

2)

Er... never tried, so hopefully someone else will be able to answer that one!

3)

The FAA PPL that is based on your JAA PPL (FAR 61.75) is valid for your lifetime but in order for it to remain current your JAA PPL has to stay valid.

However all FAA pilots, that includes FAA PPL holders that are issued in accordance with FAR Part 61.75 are legally required to have a current Bi-annual Flight Review, otherwise known as a BFR which as the name suggests is a flight "review" every two years.

A BFR consists of some ground school and flight exercises of *your* choice. When you obtain your FAA PPL 61.75 you will require the BFR to validate the certificate even though it is based on the validity of your JAA PPL. So your first BFR groundschool will probably be based around the differences between the UK and USA, local procedures etc.

If during the 2 year validity of the BFR you pass an FAA checkride for an FAA IR, CPL etc then that will count as your BFR and you will have a further two years from the date of your checkride until you require another BFR.

4)

All applicants for FAA PPLs based on the ICAO licence (61.75) must obtain their certificate in person at an FSDO. You will need to take your passport, logbook, ICAO Licence and medical and present yourself at the nominated FSDO. The FSDO will have a copy of the same letter you had sent to yourself from the FAA in Oklahoma, they will match the two letters, check your ICAO licence, help you fill in the FAA PPL application form (8170) and will take no payment whatsoever. Half an hour you will walk out with your new certificate.

A list of FSDO's are located on the following link:

http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/fsdo/index.cfm

If it is your first time in the USA then the school will probably have you fly a cross country as part of your checkout so ensure you are taken to the FSDO to pick up your certificate!!! There are a few FSDO's in each State, normally in most major towns / cities.

Word of warning: Telephone the FSDO to book an apppointment before you visit them as they don't allow anyone without an appointment into the building like they used to.

Have a great time in the USA!

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

Since you specifically asked for my comments, here they are: I have very little to add to CZ's excellent reply, and agree with everything he says!

The only thing I would add is that, before filling in the paperwork for the license, check with your school which FSDO is their nearest. It may be that you can fly there, as CZ says, or it may be close enough to not be worth flying, you can sort that out later, but you need to know which FSDO to put on the forms for the FAA.

Have fun!

FFF
-------------

Wonderful. Thank you both very much. Thoroughly appreciated.

Alll the best.

Hrs Building in the U.S. .............
 

Hi,
I'll be heading for California in 2 weeks for some hour building.
Who's out there and wants to share expenses?
Regards,
R.S.

Hour building South Dakota
 

I will be heading out South Dakota in the near future and was hoping to do some cheap hour building. Can anyone recomend any schools in the brookings area? Or anywhere in that area I have searched these forums and nobody has mention south dakota.

What do I need to do to fly in the USA on a JAA PPL and will I need an FAA Medical, if so how long does the FAA Class2 last?

Thanks
NT:ok:

Hi Nottelling

Whereabouts are you going to be in South Dakota, it's a huge state.

I spent some time at University in Vermillion SD, there is an airfield there with a school but that was 6 years ago, and a lot has happened in those 6 years.

Try this link for a start

http://www.bluebound.com/States/SouthDakota/flying.htm

I would be looking in the Brookings watertown soux falls area where I will be visiting friends.

Hi,

You require an FAA PPL to fly N Registered Aeroplanes.

This can be obtained either by passing the full written and flight test, however this will require an M1 Visa.

The other method is by obtaining an FAA PPL based upon the validity of your JAA PPL, this is covered under the Federal Aviation Requirements (FAR) Part 61 Subsection 75.

How do you go about obtaining an FAA PPL based on your JAA PPL? Well you need to go through the following process, which in short is:

1) Obtain and fill in the FAA Form. Then Fax it to the FAA in Oklahoma.
2) Obtain and fill in the CAA Form. Then Fax it, together with your credit card details (£15) to the UK CAA.
3) The FAA will then request your information from UK CAA.
4) Once verified the FAA will send both you and your chosen FSDO (Flight Standards District Office) a copy of a verification letter.
5) Phone your selected FSDO and arrange an appointment.
6) Turn up at the FSDO with passport, JAA PPL and medical, logbook, etc...
7) After about half an hour walk out of the FSDO with your new FAA PPL!

You will then require a BFR (Bi-Annual Flight Review) with an Instructor to validate your FAA PPL. This is not treated as training and thus you do NOT require an M1 visa. You can enter the States on a visa waiver program (ie fill in the form on the plane).

If you're going to obtain the full FAA PPL then you will require at least an FAA Class 3 Medical (for PPLs) which is valid for up to 3 years.

However if you are obtaining an FAA PPL based on your JAA PPL then you will NOT need an FAA Medical. But your JAA PPL *and* JAA Medical (Class 2 at least) must remain valid and current.

I did write a thread a good few months ago which explains the verification process in a lot more detail. I'll try and find that and will post it here later.

Hope this helps.

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

For anyone infuture looking for CZ's detailed description the link is Here

Thanks for the useful info.

NT:ok:

Say Hi to Air One Express for me please from the French expat...they have the office by the hangar....good chance theyll l let you jumpseat in their metros as they have empty right seats..

ENJOY!!

M>85

Just out of interest, would you be liable to get a bit of heat from the immigration guys in the USA (well... more than usual) if you turned up on the VWP and said I'm here to a bit of flying, given the current climate?

NW3

PPL then Hour Building in FLorida
 

I am thinking of going over to Florida next month to finish my PPL. I am ready for my QXC but cant seem to get the weather. I am probably going to go to EFT but have a few questions about training in Florida.

I am hoping to take my girlfriend with me and once i have my PPL she could come along on the 25 hours i plan to do afterwards. I know that in the UK this would be impossible as i would have to wait for my licence. Is it the same over there?

Also i am presuming that i can get a visa sorted in the 6 weeks i have until i plan to go, is that realistic or would it take longer. I dont want to go much later as i heard the weather is not as good.

Prophead,

Didi a similar thing myself. No probs flying your other half - the bit of paper the examiner signs at the end of the flight test IS your licence (until the plastic one comes through the post - which takes even lomger than the CAA!).

6 weeks for a visa is certainly do-able, but I would apply now - always leve plenty of time when dealing with US immigration (use search for info on what to expect when down in London town for your interview)

And finally, if you have a connecting internal flight in the US - also leave plenty of time! They don't like foreigners coming in on an 'M' visa to learn to fly! Expect to sit in a room for an hour while they call your flying school (an hour:mad: !) to verify who you are and ensure you miss your connection:mad:

Enjoy and good luck
RP:ok:

Whoa!! - the piece of paper that an AMERICAN flight examiner gives you will allow you to carry passengers (girlfriends).

If Prophead only continues training towards, and sits the skill test for, a JAA PPL then he will NOT be allowed to carry passengers, as the piece of paper given by a JAA flight examiner is NOT a licence and carries no passenger privileges.

Six weeks should be enough for visa - GET ON WITH IT (as said above).

Enjoy the flying.

As i am over there i was hoping to get an FAA PPL as well so i take it i will be okay to fly passegers with that then???

Hours building in the US
 

The button said "New Topic", so I feel a little bit of a cheat.


I know this type of message pi**es people off because it's boring to some, but it is important to me and other so...

Can somebody give me advice, (or point me in the direction of reference material) on all areas regarding qualifications, laws, visas etc etc for aq qualified PPL to fly whilst on holiday or specific hours building in the good old USofA.

Many thanks in anticipation.

No advice I'm afraid but as I'm in the same boat and require the same help/advice I thought I'd lend my moral support! :ok:

Guys this topic has been covered over and over again on this forum. I suggest you use the search facility and have a look through it makes good reading.

I personally did my PPL, Hours Building and CPL in the USA in Florida at Naples Air Center

www.naples-air-centre.com

I am sure all the information you need to know is on their site, if not ask them

Have Fun:8

http://pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=65838

look here

Hi Mosspigs,

This has been covered before so I'll probably be brief in my reply.

To fly as Pilot in Command on N registered aeroplanes in the USA you will require an FAA PPL at the very least. These come in two flavours.

One that is based upon your JAA PPL (assuming that is what you have) and the other that is a full FAA PPL. See the following link for further information.

Licence Conversion

Obtaining the full FAA PPL isn't too stressful. Just an FAA Private Written Test and an FAA Private Checkride. The Checkride is probably the more stressful as it includes an Oral portion with the examiner which lasts around an hour but can go on for some time. The manouvers are the same except the FAA require you to demonstrate ground reference manouvers such as S Turns on your checkride. You learn these within a couple of hours.

As for a visa. If you're going to obtain the FAA PPL on the basis of your JAA PPL then you will NOT require a visa. You will require a BFR (to validate your FAA PPL) but that is not seen as training.

However if you are going to obtain a full FAA PPL, ie take the written and checkride then you will require an M1 visa as this is counted as training even though you already hold a JAA PPL (or any other ICAO PPL).

For visa requirements see the following post.

Visa Requirements for Training in USA

Hope this helps,

Charlie Zulu.

You could do worse than going to Tulsa, Oklahoma (Riverside Flight Centre). I went there and can recommend them.

Being slap bang in the centre of the USA, what you can do is fly out of KRVS in various directions and visit parts of the USA you would never otherwise visit. The mountains of Arkansas? 2h there, 2h back. Kentucky (KBWG) and the Green River (for Mammoth Cave NP*)? 6-7h. Lake Texoma? All places that are well worth seeing that you might never otherwise get the opportunity to go to... let alone actually take the opportunity to go to.

You can also visit the more popular areas of the USA- eg Grand Canyon, Vegas, which are also easily accessible from Oklahoma.

*HIGHLY recommended

Multi hours building in US
 

I'm thinking of going back out to the States next month for a couple of weeks of hours building in a multi. Just wondering if anyone wanted to come along and join me to share costs.

I was in Anglo American (California) last year but don't mind going back there or trying Florida.

Regards,

Ratpup

Hour Building
 

When were you planning on going and how many hours were you thinking fo doing?

I am also considering building some twin time in the states, possibly tour the carribean Islands though not until early 2005.

When were you considering going, which twin and how many hours.

Anyone been/done PPL and hour building at NAC?
 

These forums are fantastic, my research using the search facility has given me loads of information, but has somewhat made me quite confused about the structure of my planned route!

I intend to start at Naples, Florida in February 2005 to do my PPL and about three quarters of my hour building requirements before coming home to do ATPL's and CPL etc etc....but:

1) How should I structure my hour building in terms of making the best use of it - is it worthwhile going on trips around various cities or should specific exercises be carried out locally?

2) Will I be able to come up with some sort of schedule for this using my instructor and will he/she be able to help me plan them?

3) How much of the required 150 hours will have to be P1 - how much of the PPL is P1 (what is classified as "P1")?

4) Roughly how many hours would one recommend to reserve getting used to UK skies on return - and I suppose I'll have to convert my FAA PPL - is this a hassle?

5) What other ratings should I do after my PPL, such as Night, IMC, MEP, and others?

6) Will these ratings have to be FAA as well - then also converted on return to the UK?

7) Do these further ratings count as dual time thus not towards time as P1?

Sorry for the barage, I just want everything to be clear in my head so I believe I am making the correct decisions!

If anyone out there has or is doing the same sort of thing, please let me know your experiences and what I need to do to make this as beneficial as possible and value for money!

Thanks a lot.

Hello thejakes,

I'm here at NAC right now. FYI it's not perfect, but I'm having a great time and would come here again (and indeed plan to do so). Any downsides are exactly what you expect at any US school.

Anyway, the reason I'm posting a reply is this. A chap called Gavin just got back from an hour building trip here; he went to Vegas and back. For an answer to your questions, I'd suggest getting in touch with one of the folks here at Naples (Bea, Nikki, Richard) and see if they can forward your email/phone to him, and he can give you advice.

FWIW, on the PPL front, I came for a JAA PPL and (fingers crossed) I'll probably be able to come away with both the JAA and FAA tickets. You might want to consider doing this, that way you don't need to worry about conversions. You get the JAA night rating in the bag as well by doing that.

I'll leave you to it, and let one of the NAC staff or regulars step in to answer queries . . .

Best wishes, DPM

PS Hi to the NAC regulars who I emailed about coming here. Solo QXC complete today, so I'm a happy boy!

I've been to 2 other US schools aswell as NAC and I will disagree with this.

dpm,

I'm under the impression that for hour building I'll need an FAA PPl, but for the other ratings a JAA PPL. Surely I don't want to pay for both, but to convert from one to the other when needed?

WX Man,

what are these other schools you seem to prefer?

thejakes,

For the FAA as well as the JAA I just have to take the written test (which has forced be to brush up on US air law anyway, so that's a good thing; their airspace actually makes sense to me!) and take the checkride. For the cost of that checkride, I get an unrestricted FAA rather than restricted, and don't have to go through the adminstrative hoops to do the conversion. All that means is that I have to pay for the checkride . . . seems fair enough! I encourage you to get in touch with NAC and/or other schools to get the real lowdown, since I'm just paying attention to flying at the mo.

WX Man,

Just to explain, "what I expected" on the downsides was the kind of mildly negative stuff drawn from pprune style searches. I guess I could sum it up by saying that NAC feels like an efficiently run profit-making school, whereas my home base in the UK (South Warwickshire at Wellesbourne) feels like a not-for-profit club. (It's actually not quite as extreme as that, but I think you get the idea.) No comparisons to other US-based schools were meant to be made; I meant the expectations of US training in general! (If I had meant to compare US schools, then I would've used the word experience rather than expectation.)

But, since I don't have any experience of other US schools, feel free to lay in with gossip!! I quite enjoying reading the "Florida Flight School Battles" on pprune!!
As I said before, I plan to come back here again; but then again I also plan to go visit the school-that-shall-not-be-named as well, just for the variety!

Ahem. Further to my previous posts. Apparently NAC will be posting no profits this year due to the damage caused to all of their C152s by my crappy landings . . .

For the avoidance of doubt, following some PMs I had from others, I'm having a great time here and will definitely come back again. Assuming that Richard lets me after all the fun I make of him . . . .

Cheerio!!! DPM

the jakes, I did my hour building with NAC last summer and apart from a few minor slip-ups, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Nicki was very friendly and most helpful.

You might need to be a bit stubborn with the staff if you're trying to get the hours completed within a certain timescale because I can remember on a few occasions where I was nearly fobbed off with a non-IFR equipped 152 and expected to use the GPS to navigate around southern Florida, which I wasn't having as I was preparing for my CPL and IR back in Blighty where the GPS wasn't the done thing.

If you can, try and do a mixture of DR Nav and VOR/ADF tracking on your flights. Don't rely on the GPS. Also, do proper flight planning for every flight, nav-wise. (working out your heading etc given the winds etc) That way, when you do your CPL and IR you'll be up to speed with the whizzwheel, will hopefully save yourself money in the long run and you won't have just burnt holes in the lovely blue sky!

Above all, enjoy it! You'll look back with fond memories!

And Good Luck.

MB

<<edit: Also practice calculating runway lengths required - not forgetting factored, at whatever factor is given in the NAC CPL training manual, for public transport operations.>>

Sorry to stick my nose in again. On the scheduling front, the folks at NAC appear to be bending over backwards to accommodate timescales at the moment. For instance, it's Thanksgiving tomorrow and they've offered to open up (despite a planned one-day closure) to help anyone who needs it to catch up on schedules. It's appreciated by the students here.

Best, DPM

The same happened with a couple of us multi guys back in July of this year.

Richard was bending over backwards trying to get a couple of us finished with our Multi courses and having the Seminole go out for a couple of days on its 100 hour check didn't help matters for him!

However... by Saturday evening the Seminole was back online and although it was Independance Day the next day I had a telephone call asking if I could get in contact with my instructor.

They had planned to close the school for the day on Independance Day which they did but two of the multi instructors still went to work with their respective students (just myself and someone else).

Between the two of us we did lots of flying that day!!!

The only downside is that I didn't get to spend the day at the beach like everyone else.

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

Orlando Flight Training - Hour Building
 

Hi All,

I am off to Orlando Flight Training next week to do some hour building while studying for my modular ATPL ground school exams.

Already have a JAA PPL which I trained for at Goodwood.

Has anyone come back from visiting them recently for hour building or who can provide any feedback on their experience.

If so, did you ever fly anywhere for a few days across the U.S or did you have to return the aircraft every evening back to the school?