Pilot Assist Dead!!!!
 

Sorry to keep you all in suspense, going to pub to get ****erz, just lost £6500 career development loan!!


Only student flying at Nottingham today (who am I!!??), Pilot Assist have ceased trading (or in process of) due to non-payment of bills. Aerodrome refusing to refuel aircraft and owner of aircraft demanded them back. Hence my ferry flight today, to return one of the aircraft with my instructor.

As I said, going to pub, will write full report later.

Moderators: Happy for u to give out my e-mail address to anyone interested, will need to get together with other 90 students to work out a way forward.

Bottom line: loss of confidence by financier, not bankruptcy....

Oh sh1t - sorry folks
 

If this is true (sounds pretty authentic) this is another disaster (PPSC/4 Forces/SFT...). A few weeks ago I was amongst a few wannabes talking to someone very well connected in the training industry who emphasised that we should never pay in advance for training and predicted at least one more school failure before long.

In fact he was advocating that we should never pay for training at all, but that's another topic.

For those of you who have lost money (or jobs), we all sympathise.

:(

Funnily enough, not paying up front was one of Pilot Assists mantras too!

When you say you lost the CDL, do you mean because it is tied to funding your course with PA or that PA cashed it in (dunno how it works) and now it has dissappeared into the void of what was PA?

Some people out there have been through all of this before (PPSC, etc, ...). Anybody has any experience/tips to try to get some of the money back (CDL). Please not the obvious comment of "Don't pay in advance" or "Pay using a credit card". Thanks.

Also "90 students" and loss of confidence by the VC guys. Very odd! 90 sounds like quite lot to me??!?

To be honest this news dosnt surprise me! I just hope the students Ive met, have at least managed to finish their ATPL exams. As for the non payment of bills I know of at least 2 students who got through their PPL+ and started IMC training without paying a penny that INCLUDES the joining fee!!!

Bubble
You could set up an ESCROW account before you start training, im not 100% sure how they work but I belive it should keep your money safe. Try asking the FTO you plan on using or ask your lender.

:ok:

I very nearly began training with pilotassist, when you say Non payment by the students on the course or by pilotassist themselves?

I remember the "How to become a Pilot" day at Alconbry near Norwich, £15, well at least they provided sandwichs and drinks!

BMW Man- Send me a private message or something, as I was very serious about pilotassist before and would like to know more.

Stapleford in Essex has a similar CDL scheme, hmmmmm, anyone been thru them?

This has gotta be the toughest industry to get into:*

I had paid for the seminar at Pilot Assist this weekend, however got an email today saying it had been cancelled due to the guest speakers having their schedules changed at short notice by the airlines. I have been told I will be credited with the money I paid shortly.

Seems like a bit of a coincidence....

As far as I am aware the concept of Escrow accounts does not exist in the UK..in theory one could set up an 'in trust' account with a solicitor but I cant see a UK training provider going for this and the admin. charges would be quite large...

I am not even sure that Escrow can be used for training in the USA...transactions of 'estate' yes...i.e. ships, aircraft and property.

BMW Man - genuinely feel for you and any others - it shouldnt be like this...I went through self sponsorship and the Gulf War crash myself.

No it does not sound like a coincidence, they have a regular 'guest' speaker who is a triple seven captain. Her schedule is changable as you can imagine.

ESCROW is available in the UK. We have used it to hold computer source code in trust as well as money. A training organisation does need to agree, as they will not see a penny until the deal is done. There are obvious problems regarding the agreement of T&Cs rendering it potentially inconvenient for both parties. Also it will cost a few grand extra to use the service for the sums involved in training. Use a credit card.

Is this Pilot Assist thing for real or is this thread presumptuous?

Talk of this such if not true at the beginning can certainly hurt a school.

I hope that all who posted this information had good solid evidence and not snippets of conversations.

I would encourage anyone to contact the school before believing any of this.

:confused:

Well, I'm one of apparantly over 100 signed up with PAC.
I received a mail to say that, yes there are cash flow problems but, no the school is not dead.
The operation has been deemed viable by the accountants, and the focus is on addressing the cash flow situation.
All we can do is wait and see what that outcome is, but speculation and possible panic will do nobody any favours at this stage.
Let's hope for a happy landing on this one!

Boss Raptor

I know for a fact that CABAIR accept ESCROW accounts.

:ok:

Hmmm, wonder why the regulars here recommend certain schools consistently and others not at all..?

You have to learn to read between the lines sometimes.

My comiserations to all caught out by this IF its true.

WWW

WWW

I dont see that anyone is recommending any schools:confused:
and im not, and never have recommended CABAIR:confused: :confused: :confused:

:ok:

Oh over the years here certain schools have been given thumbs up consistently. Others have never ever had a good word said about them.

WWW

I see. Well from what I know, Pilot Assist students were very happy with them (even the ones who payed their way!). IMHO I think somebody has mis-managed the cash. Students were/are being trained without paying their registration upfront or even having their CDL's approved!

Im not sure if this rumours even true but IF it is, then im not surprised because of the reasons ive just mentioned.

regards
2Wings

:ok:

WWW
 

And.................

You seem to be suggesting something and never getting there......

Who is recommending schools........or have you had a few too many;)

I was introduced today, to this website, by an email sent to all Pilot Assist students as an initial response to this thread. Obviously my first re-action was that of horror thinking that the remainder of my CDL held by them was going to be lost into the depths of the unknown.

I have since taken the time to read through what everyone has said in this forum and what Pilot Assist (PAC) have said in response, and I do not see any point in giving up just because of a problem that people are willing to fight against! If everyone here gave up at the first sight of a problem where would we all be now?

Everyone here can see that there are difficulties in this industry - airlines aren't recruiting as much as we'd like - sponsorship is hard to come by - yet we all continue to plough money into our training knowing that after attaining a CPL/IR ATPL(Frozen) we might not even get a job. If you are prepared to walk away from PAC then why continue with your training?

It is my intention to fight this battle alongside PAC, get my CPL/IR ATPL(Frozen) and then fight the next battle of getting a job. If everyone else did this, instead of pulling out of training and getting refunds from their CDLs, PAC would win this battle and everyone would be happy.

All the dealings that I have had (and the main reason why I choose them in the first place) with PAC have been of sincere professionalism and committment to its students. Recruiting over 100 students in such a short time prooves to me that I was not the only one who saw this.

Rather than complaining about this, I ask all PAC students to get in touch with me and help PAC, if not only by morale support! I want to get into this industry as much as the rest of you, and I'm not going to just sit here and complain when I could be doing something to attain that "Win Win" situation that everyone wants.

For the record the response that Pilot Assist have given is:
Are you going to fight for your future? PAC are willing to fight... why don't we join them?

If you're a PAC student, please email me: [email protected]

Spencer Collins (Kent)

Hi Spencer,
I'm also with PAC, undoubtedly they have problems but life is full of problems and if we turn and run at the first fence do we deserve to be airline pilots (I think not), not to say I would not be just as devastated to see students lose money, (I've been there before with Four Forces), but it's not over yet, lets give them a chance to sort it out.What has gone has gone we have nothing more to lose but everything to gain by sticking together.
Just remember what happened to SFT when the students, got disheartened to quickly, dispersed and left nothing to rescue.
Guys keep it together and contact Spencer at above email address

Hi,

IF these rumours are true then I feel for everyone, I lost money with SFT (though not a lot) I do feel that some of the blame falls at the feet of the CAA. The CAA approve these schools and as such we are limited to the number of schools we can give our money to. Surely one requirement of being approved sould be finacial stability. In the last couple of years there has been a lot of schools that have gone t!ts-up, yet they still ask for money upfront.

Good luck to everyone affected by this IF IT IS TRUE.

D.J.

Well BMW_Geezer has not retrurned as he stated so I assume he jumped the gun on this story (I don't mean intentionally, I mean he just jumped the gun).

The PAC guys seem like a sincere bunch to me so:

"Keep at it Pilot Assist and best of luck to the students!"

If anything a note just to concur with the other PAC students. This is a time when they need our support and if there is anything that can be done to help I think we should pitch in.

I think that the studets at PAC have now been put in the picture. I know for a fact that the guys in charge are doing everything they can to get this situation sorted.
I have been with PAC for quite a while now and i have finished the groundschool. I have had a service from the college which i very much doubt i could get from other schools.
Students: Don't panic. The company is viable, and they deserve all our support. They sure have mine.

Solidarity
 

I am one of those students affected, and have no intention of doing anything other than offering PAC my full support. I want what PAC has to offer just as much as they clearly want to provide a high quality training service, and I think we all need to stick together to protect our collective investment thus far.

I contacted PAC after receiving the e-mail to let them know my views on the situation and assure them of my continued support. Solidarity from all students and other stake-holders is extremely important at this time and I would encourage others to do likewise.

Well boys and girls. I have been away a long time from posting on pprune for no good reason. I am back though, prompted by this rather unfortunate news.

Chins up all, I think that for us all to go screaming now is not the best approach. At the end of the day I am afraid we can offer what moral support we like to our school, but if they are not able to raise cash to pay their bills then there is deep trouble ahead.

.. especially to those with a CDL like I :( :(

Anyway lets all have a half full pint on this one. I really hope I don't have to write another post in a weeks time.

Come on Rick we know you can do it.

Strong Support For Pilot Assist
 

Sorry all, every time I try to post, despite being logged on and visible, I am informed that I am not logged on and lose my post. AAArgghh!

I wrote an essay, lost it, therefore this is short and sweet.

All at Pilot Assist digging out blind to maintain confidence with accountants / investors. All students informed. Spoke to MD, not going down without a fight. Students are displaying inmmense support for the college (with the prospect of losing money, surely this is a vote of confidence and the finest advert for anyone?), and a way forward will be proposed after the w/e. Sincerely hope they resolve the issue, enjoy PACs ethos, rationale and consumate professionalism. Didn't wish to appear so negative (sorry everyone, I am a tw*t), but just to be on guard / prepared to implement yr contingency plans. Do agree with Fly.Mon. et al, let's team up and present Rick's investors with the confidence they need.

I agree Beemer geezer, although people should be informed, a climate of honesty and openess maintained, such a threat can cause people to tighten and present a united front. It seems that PAC wannabes are doing this, it includes me, and we all hope PAC thrives and overcomes this stressful time.

What does not kill us only makes us stronger....

I hope things go well for you chaps, but there's no need for two threads on this subject. They will be merged.

Scroggs
Virgin/Wannabes Moderator
[email protected]

Likewise, I'd like to wish everyone concerned good luck. It is a rare thing when you see such openness from a training provider and the support they are getting from their students.

I have altered the topic title to reflect the current situation.

I have tried to illicit information from the flying side of PAC but it is proving very difficult.

IF enough students stick together I think everything will be OK. I'd never believe it if it weren't apparently happening. Usually it only takes one or two bailing ship early to cause an exodus...

Fingers crossed for all concerned.

WWW

Best of luck to all those affected by the recent events surrounding Pilot Assist. I was one of the SFT students out in Florida when it collapsed, and I remember vividly the heart ache caused during its disintegration. Let’s hope Pilot Assist doesn’t suffer the same fate.

I concur with Dean Johnson that the CAA really should shoulder some of the blame for the on going problem of collapsing Flight Training Organisations. The CAA effectively licences FTOs, and my understanding is that the JARs place a responsibility on the CAA to establish the financial standing of FTOs when approvals are given or renewed, yet for an on going renewal approval, all is required is declaration from the FTO that it’s not about to go bankrupt. Even if an FTO was in financial difficulties, I can’t imagine they’d not give that declaration, as it would spell immediate doom.

The JARs, thoroughly enforced by the CAA, place all manner of complex and often illogical restrictions on professional flight training supposedly to ensure high standards, yet they completely fail to address a fundamental issue effecting the quality of training, namely the ability of the FTO to have sufficient financial strength to continue trading during the period in which a course of training is undertaken.

Perhaps the solution would be some sort of bonding system for FTOs, perhaps similar to the ABTA system? It would increase the cost of flight training somewhat, but I for one would be willing to pay that price. Perhaps if the CAA organised this, it might go some way to reduce the bad blood felt towards the CAA due to the scandalous fees charged to pilots for services that bear no relation to the costs incurred carrying out that particular work.

Great support from the students!
 

Since posting my message last night I have been so pleased to get such positive emails from fellow students. From those that have written to me all have said that they intend on standing by Pilot Assist!

As a result of this I am intending on making a PAC Student Community website - where we can all work together and help each other out. I intend on writing updates and posting news for students as it comes available. Also, once this issue has passed (which I am certain it will) we can use this as a method of keeping in touch and helping one an other out with studies.

PAStudents.co.uk
NOTE: This was only registered ~ 09:00GMT on 8/02/03 so might not be available for a few days.

To all PAC Students: Keep this great attitude up that you all are demonstrating and together with PAC we will get over this!

With all the support that everyone is showing, I feel proud being a PAC student and amongst such truly great people!

All I can say is that I am delighted to see the messages from PAC students indicating support for the college. To anybody who is not directly involved, I thankyou also for the considerate posts. It truly says alot about an organisation when people come out and show open support in this way. Pilot Assist is a company who genuinely want the best for their students, and I think it is fair to say that in this day and age, that this is rare to find.

PAC will survive.............. aslong as we students have a say in the matter :D

I really should pay more attention to PPrune! I only found out when I saw the email from Rick regarding the current situation. As a PAC student (with a CDL I might add) I'll stand by them without hesitation. Since I enrolled with them they have done everything in their power to help sort my training out around the wacko lifestyle I seem to have had over the last year ... Duty Free ... Malaysia ... Cabin crew (More exams ergh!) ... b*ggered car ... no money ... crap job. etc.

Ray, one of the ground school instructors, was absolutely fab when doing the ppl ground school last summer and even found ways for me to remember all that stuff! Sibson aerodrome (as used before the Nottingham field was set up) had the best cafe (great bacon sarnies) ever; the aircraft were nice to fly, the area was interesting to say the least (parachutes!), instructors great. What more can I say; they cannot die with all this support.

I shall be keeping an eye on the new website!

Graeme

My association with Pilot Assist has not been that of a student. However, I concur absolutely with the remarks written by many students. I have found all at the college to be sincere and totally dedicated to ensure the best for their students - going to extraordinary lengths to do so. They treat each of them individually, addressing his particular situation. In my experience this would seem rather unique.

Let's support Pilot Assist and make sure it survives.

Hey Skysoarer!

First time ever I've seen someone mention Sibson Aerodrome on PPRuNe! Fantastic.

Ray was a top instructor with Sibson and retired at the end of last year. I have had some great times down at Sibby (trying to spot the place in amongst all the greenary is a task to be mastered!) and really must pop back sometime to have a burn in G-FLIP!

I do believe our very own PPRuNe Towers went jumping at Sibson once upon a time too! Nice to hear Sibby get a mention.

Take care and good luck to all at PAC. The students, united, will never be defeated etc etc!! :)

VFE.

???
 

I too am in a similar situation, standing to lose £6500 should this thread read true. Could any other students verify that this is correct? Is there any way in which we would be able to obtain our funds?

Or at the ned of the day is this just another rumour.......

Regards

J

Pilot assist is to sell to Cabair
 

Hi Guys,
The latest news, I have just heard that Pilot Assist is trying to sell the student records and names to Cabair to try and do a recovery package for us the students. I am reliably informed that PAC as we know it has gone, and that the only hope is with this deal with cabair either way I think we are going to have to face the fact that some of us are going to lose money.
I wish I had better news, but I'm hopeing we will get another email from Rick containing exactly what has gone on today with cabair.
Keep it together.:rolleyes:

I'm very sorry to hear this, I hope Rick will be able to sort it out and that Cabair will be able to put together a rescue package, if that is indeed what is on the table. It is certainly unusual for a company to be so upfront about its position and that can only be to his credit.