CPL skill test
 

I need help guys. I am going to complete my CPL training and I will have at the end 180 hrs. I know that I need 200 hrs to apply for the CPL license, but can I take a skill test with 180 hrs?, then do my IR and then apply for CPL with 200 hrs total.

I found an old thread in this forum about that, but I would appreciate your fresh recommendations.

If you're training in the UK, Yes.

Max,

Just done exactly that myself, and now on the IR, the only effect it has on the IR is the hours of training required. You would have to sit the 55hr hour IR as oppose to 45hr with a CPL issued. If you have access to some nice cheap flying it may work out cheaper to fly 20 hours extra hour building rather than another 10 in a twin/simulator (depending on how your school breaks it down). For me it broke roughly even, so I elected to shorten the time scale and get on with the 55hr course.

Not in accordance with EASA Part FCL you can't.

There's a thread about this on the Examiner section of this website :

FCL 1030 - Pre-Requisites for EASA Skills tests

When did this come in? i.e. skills tests carried out before / after which date?

Was effective 17th September 2012 when the CAA implemented the EASA regs ( from http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/2330/Webre...kguide__v2.pdf )

Hence why there is a declaration on the application form which the examiner has to sign saying you meet licence issue requirements.

However some examiners and schools have been slow on the uptake, leading to some license issue problems.

Well me and I personally know about 50 people who have. My examiner never had an issue with it, neither did theres. No issues with license issue either from CAA. The only thing was I couldn't apply for the CPL license before 200 hours, but the test I did at 175.

Unless this has changed in the past 6 months. Or, the examiners didn't really know about this, which is likely as the CAA and EASA change things every 5 minutes and they can't keep up!

There was an example very recently of an examiner refusing to test a candidate with <200 hours, despite having been recommended for test by the ATO.

You would think that this would be made crystal clear within CAP 804 for ALL to read AND understand without any ambiguity whatsoever.

There is no excuse for this, yet another example of shoddy regulation by those responsible. They have been told enough times by industry that CAP 804 is a mess - they should get it sorted!! :mad:

To be fair this regulations brings us closer to ICAO - in every other country I've flown in you have to meet license requirements at time of test.

That's fair enough, BG, and it is about time that everyone was singing from the same hymn-sheet - my comment was related to yet another episode of ambiguity within the published document, for which there is no excuse.

Saying that, as a former CAA employee engaged in part in the checking of regulations pre-publishing I have personally witnessed us identifying errors to the legislators only to have our comments ignored and the regs being published with the ambiguities and 'loop-holes' in place.

Hence, I am not surprised! :ugh:

I was told by my FTO recently (within the last month) that I do not need 200 hours total time before doing the CPL test, as long as all elements of the CPL course have been carried out. 200 hours is required for licence issue, but not for the test.

Moving onto the IR next, and will be in the same situation as packo1848 - will need to do the 55 hour course.

They told you wrong.

Hence the point of this thread.

As some of the posts suggest the schools are behind on this and the exam cannot be conducted as it is clearly defined in Part FCL that you may not take the test. Examiners should, and are, refusing to test those who do not meet those requirments.

Hi troops,

I have received it hot off the press this morning IN WRITING from CAA Policy that ALL requirements for licence issue MUST be met before a student can take a Skill Test.

Therefore, an applicant for a CPL(A) Skill Test MUST have 200 hours total time (plus all the other bits and pieces outlined in 1179/2011 Appendix 3).

:)

Does this apply to PPL skills test as well?

Yes in terms of the 45 hours total time, 25 dual, 10 solo etc.

See the reference in :

http://www.pprune.org/flying-instruc...cl-1030-a.html

BG

Could you confirm that you are saying that the PPL skills test can no longer be part of the 45 hours eg the skills test cant be taken until the student has TT of 45 hours plus ten hours dual etc

Also if this the case are the CAA actually enforcing it?

The EASA regs state that the requirements for licence issue must be met BEFORE the Skill Test can be taken - or at least, that is how they are being interpreted at Gatwick.

I would imagine that many instructors and examiners will interpret the requirements differently but you will run the risk of having a licence application returned from LSD FCL, should it land on the desk of one of the more 'officious' officers who goes through the paperwork and log book with a fine toothcomb.

Unfortunately, it is a lottery - some are more understanding and lenient than others and whilst this should never be the case with a regulator, it IS the case at Gatwick.

:rolleyes:

In the case of flight test conducted and passed without the necessary experience for license issue and subsequently gaining sufficient experience? Please tell me they are not expecting the skills test to be taken again or something equally as ludicrous?

Now to throw in a spanner in the works!

My FTO has had it writing from EASA that a student can sit a skills test without the full hours for CPL issue, with remaining hours can be built after the skills test before applying for licence. This was about 3 weeks ago!

EASA have also confirmed in writing of an "error" on a document created internally within EASA has been misinterpreted by examiners/staff etc, due to the admin person creating this document and wording it incorrectly; consequently causing this confusion.

I didn't progress with my CPL until EASA had confirmed back in writing the true facts.

And yes I've just sit my skills test and passed!

CC,

Can you post the letter here, with ATO name removed of course; alternatively, PM me a copy and I will send it on to the Policy Officer at the CAA for comment.

I just love spanners!!! :)