Should I stay or should I go ?
 

Hey guys,
I new on this network and I hope in posting in correct sub-forum.

I attracted to flying and I`m chasing idea of being a pilot for years, because I cannot afford it regularly. I was very patient and this year I managed to get scholarship in one Middle Eastern school. I passed entry exam and I was ready to go for it.
Then shocking news, school is not JAA approved but they told me different before coming. Since I`m from Europe, I suppose then I wont get much credit for non-JAA ( or EASA whatever ) licence in my country.
Other stressful thing about it is a fact that I simply can`t go anywhere else, almost all of you are familiar with fact that getting scholarship is ******* hard...

I having headaches for weeks trying to come up with solution.. My passion ( some call it heart ) is pulling me in plane, but my brain is not letting me.. Because there is no way that I could live in ME more then few years..


PLEASE HELP ME, what should I do... go for it no matter the licence.. or kiss it and leave it while I still can..

p.s. I really dont want to mention name of school or company because those guys are monitoring this forum from time to time :D

I think it's in the ME where you'll get really paied later on...I would think twice if you can find a job over there.

I`m 20, I will be 22 when I finish my course so I guess thats good.. I could go for 5 year contract and obviously I would be 27 then.. I will save SOME money, and return home.. where I`m not a pilot :) Then what.. I so afraid of that..

Staying in ME any longer is not an option for me.. I dont have anything against ME, but i dont see my self there for life.. I want to live in my city and to have family there..

I`m afraid that I cant save enough and that I will HAVE to stay there even longer which is unfortunately life death sentence to me...

advice.. please .. somebody ??

i have to make decision in few days

An ICAO license is good for transfer although you will have to shell out for exams etc.

You can start a JAR commercial course with a ICAO ppl.

So if your PPL and 150 hours your in the same position as everyone else as hours count what ever the reg you do them in.

Personally i would get the lic then have plans to transfer it later. GCAA isn't a bad one to have.

What's wrong with the ME? I think you'll find it will grow on you.....

And if by schoilarship you mean someone is paying for your training I would grab it with both hands. Destiny works in mysterious ways sometimes.

What's wrong with the ME?

Its a ****e hole and is changing for the worst for expats.

Well good luck with that. Most folks I know in Aviation have had to relocate at least once for one reason or another. I do have two friends who were able to fly for an airline in their home town but the settled with the lowest paying operator.

I have heard rumors that transfering licence is almost immpossible, and if possible its pain in ass...

I know that this job requires relocating from town to town or form country to country.. Honestly I wouldnt mind to work anywhere in Europe, even in far East.. but ME is place where cannot live.. you can just stay there few years to earn some money.. Im concerned what later.. i will finish my contract at age of 28 and then what.. obviously i still have 30-40 years of life left.. then what.. with invalid licence.. :s

help help help

You need to give more info.

If it is a free course with an employment contract afterwards for 5 years. You would be mad to turn it down, you won't get a better offer.

If it is a free course and you hope to find employment afterwards. You would be mad to turn it down, you won't get a better offer.

If you are paying for the course and expect that afterwards you will be able to work as a low time pilot in the ME. Are you mad!

Rather than getting frustrated about people not answering your question to your liking why not spend the time doing a bit of research. You will find that an ICAO license is not useless if you move country. Will you get multi crew time, will it be in a jet etc etc etc. If this is your passion why do you know so little about it?

Don't worry about not seeing yourself living in ME... once you're accepted into the airlines, especially those long haul ones, you're hardly at home anyway. Probably find yourself more often in Europe!

You are being given the opportunity to learn to fly for free. What is the problem?

Aircraft fly the same the world over.

Grasp it, do it!

A license conversion is not impossible. It can be expensive and a pain, but not more of a pain than for anyone else who got a JAA license.

You should go to a doctor. Take this chance with your both hands dude, no matter where in the world it is:ugh:

What does the scholarship include? Does it cover all flight training or part of the training? Do you have to give anything in return?

I can't see what the problem is. You say you want to fly and these people will pay for the training and give you a job. Is your heart really in flying? Unless you are rich you don't have a choice. This is a no brainer. Furthermore, if you can't work this out by yourself you really should be looking at a different career.

I managed to get scholarship that covers training costs, accommodation and food. They are not asking me for any favor after finishing school.
So answer to your question is : i`m not paying school and I dont have job guarantee. Still I have to pay for some of mine living costs and plane tickets back home(which is less important ).

Course includes exactly same modules as JAA approved schools do.. so its 14 subjects.. and fATPL, ME, IR/SE, IR/ME and MCC. After finishing school I will have around 180-200 hours on SE and around 40 hours of ME.

I think that I`m well informed, and my biggest fear is getting job.. I heard that big gulf companies such as Etihad, Emirates and Qatar Airways wont take pilot without at least 1500 hours. And without any income I cant afford luxury of sitting somewhere for months and months waiting for any kind of job.

Please understand my situation, if I could maintain same living standard in ME while studying as I have home.. I would go without thinking. But if I spend my parents savings and 2 years of my life studying something that I wont be able to use.... well that would probably be irresponsible move..


And thank you guys so much for your time. ;)

Don't do it. Let somebody else have the scholarship who will really appreciate it.

@zondaracer, I would say exactly same few month ago to somebody asking this as you said to me now..
However, leaving home and going 5000km away for period of 7 years is easier said then done.. You have to understand me, I`m going through tough period and for me this is a huge move. We I came here I had all motivation in the world, I scored above 90% at every exam AND then information about licence hit me like a lightning ( because they told that they are JAA approved ).
Even some instructors are telling me "you are stuck here" all the time which is veryy veryyy depressing...

You will be certain to get a job with Teahid once you learn how to spell it.

This bloke's havin' a giraffe... I get it - it's Christmas, after all!

Brutale - flying as a career is just like running away and joining the circus - you'd better get your head round it now!

And the ME is not necessarily a sh*thole - I enjoyed my time in Dubai and would be there now if I didn't need to be in UK for my present employment. So the working conditions may not be ideal in terms of management - there are many European airlines that could be applied to.

Good luck

Why do you have to be there for 7 years?

@SFI145, please continue watching Cartoon Network and dont waste your precious time posting on mine thread...Teahid is obviously typing mistake..


@zondaracer, training will take about 2 years and guy from national company of that country told me that 5 years is minimum on contract..

Well seven years isn't bad. Especially if five years are operational experience and your training is all paid for. Besides, Jordan is nice.

Also, a JAA conversion later on in life is easier if you have 500 hours on a qualifying Multi-pilot airplane.

@zondaracer, mate I dont know how you came up with conclusion that I`m in Jordan. Unfortunately I`m not in Jordan ( unfortunately because that school is JAA approved ). Seven years is not that bad but still its big decision to make, if I go for it I have to go all the way otherwise it would be waste of time and money.

And dont get me wrong, I would love to tell you guys which school and which country it is... but its against rules of school so I dont want to risk my status.

And zondaracer, thank you SO MUCH mate for your time.

Although you are getting trained for free, if you have no job prospects after qualifying then its not much use. With a fresh ICAO CPL and not EASA, your employment opportunities are limited (maybe Africa or Far East?); but if you are getting your licence paid for, won't your sponsors want some work out of you when you are finished?

Once you have a few years of experience in your logbook, converting ATPL licence to EASA is much easier.

You have to ask yourself where that first job will come from, and target your training towards that goal.

I am completely confused.

If I understand this correctly, you are a "European" national who has been offered a full scholorship to train as pilot in a middle Eastern country. It is not clear from what you have said, but presumably you have some afflilation (background or connection) with that country? You are concerned that this "school" is not recognised by a European supranational authority (although why it needs to be, isn't entirely clear?) You can't afford any other school and this opportunity seems too good to pass up. Despite this, you don't want to stay in this host country one minute longer than necessary because you want to live in your home city.

I think many people reading this would wonder if your being recruited by the Taliban or a criminal drug cartel. If you don't want it, don't do it. On the face of it, it sounds like a good opportunity (you learn to fly and somebody else pays for it.) However if you have serious doubts, walk away. If you were getting any sort of licence and hundreds of hours for free, weighed up against nothing else available to you as an option, then I am not sure what it is you expect anybody to tell you.

you say your "biggest fear is getting job." Well yes, but that would be a fear if you had spent $150,000 of your own money at one of the worlds most respected training schools as well. All I can tell you is that your chances of finding an airline job with 200 odd hours are so small, that it shouldn't be regarded as a "fear," but a planned for reality.

Life isn't going to hand you a perfect career on a plate. If you have been afforded a good opportunity, then take it (if you want to,) for what it is, not what you would want it to be. It might be the perfect springboard or lucky break that enables you to embark on a career that would cost much less than would otherwise be the case.

To be honest (and as I say I don't fully understand your problem) you don't seem to have a very realistic appraisal of the industry. Maybe you would be happier doing something else? There isn't anything wrong in coming to that conclusion.

Is this guy serious? Reading his posts I'm like :ugh:
I'm out :mad::mad:

@Abu Bebo, my scholarship is based on cooperation of my country and one country from ME. That cooperation means that students form that country can choose any university in my country for free and that students from my country can study in their country for free. So I applied for this program and thanks to my high grades and prizes that I won on various competitions I managed to get scholarship. Now, normally I should go back to my country after graduation and work there ( this is idea of whole governmental project ) but people who were arranging this are not from the "industry" so they didnt know about licence differences. That why I have free training but no job proposals or any other requirements.

@Bealzebub, I explained in my reply for Abu Bebo how I actually managed to get scholarship. You probably got me wrong on this one, I dont have any troubles about staying there for few more years after graduation ( few.. can be one or two or ten... because I have no idea would I fancy it or not in next xy years ). My problem is that I`m not coming from wealthy family that could finance my life in ME for months and months after graduation, even now I`m spending their savings for living costs and plane tickets. So please dont blame me for being careful about my family.
Also I`m very aware that finding job is problem even if you are self-sponsored (but obviously nobody would choose this school in that case) but what I`m trying say is that I`m afraid because of limitation of this licence. It`s probably easier to find first job if you can try with 50 companies and that was something I was preparing for, but after they shocked me with this licence issue because now I`m limited to try with 5 or 6 companies.

I`m trying to get your responsible opinion here. Does it worth risking and spending around 30 000 $ of living costs while in school and two years of life for insecure job? I`m not saying anything bad about ME, only bad thing is that school headmaster lied to me about licence..but ok we cant do anything about that now :)

If you have these serious doubts, and feel that the school or its principal cannot be trusted, then walk away. You place great significance on the lack of "JAA" accreditation, and clearly the school doesn't have it.

It is almost certain that however and wherever you do a course, it is going to involve you in significant cost at some point. Despite this, there are no guarantees and you should prepare yourself for the realities of this likelyhood.

If you can't, then don't do it. It sounds like it may be a good opportunity, but it certainly won't guarantee a seamless progression to airline flying.

Nobody here is going to able to convince you otherwise, so the choice of what you do is simply yours.

That is a responsible opinion.

Bealzebub, you are 100% right. It`s only my choice..

I`m probably wrongly informed about this licence, ok it`s not JAA and I`m perfectly aware that I cant work anywhere in Europe.
But where I can use it except of Gulf? Please somebody :)

It's an ICAO licence! Most countries should accept it with a law exam here and there, or even a full complement, but your hours and experience will certainly count.

On a slight sidetrack, I never quite understand the excitement that the term "ICAO Licence" seems to generate in people?

There is no such thing as an ICAO licence, since that organisation doesn't issue licences. As for the national signatory position, virtually every country on Earth is a signatory to the ICAO. Of the handful that aren't, I am not aware of one that issues pilots licences, and certainly not of any significance.

One countries licence is not necessarily interchangeable with another, nor is it necessarily endorsable other than as laid down by the applicable national or supranational authority of the authority to whom such an application is made.

It is astonishing how many people on these forums substitute the term "ICAO licence" for the country of issue of the licence that they actually hold or are referring to. I assume because the one they need isn't the one they actually hold. I wonder if anyone on this site actually holds a non-ICAO licence? That would be a thing to behold.

More than you would imagine.

Just because a country is a member doesn't mean a paticular license is ICAO compliant.

The UK issues none compliant licenses

Bealzebub, ahahhaha you are absolutely right. It think that such thing as non-ICAO licence doesnt ever exist.

Yes, Mad Jock, that is what I said.
From the ICAO website:

Still doesn't change the fact that there are multitudes of none ICAO compliant out there.

Once you get up to ATPL level the number drops off I think the UK did have one for some years though.

But for wannabies it makes a huge difference what PPL they have and from which authority. And as the UK accepts ICAO compliant PPL's as a precursor for CPL modular course if they choose the wrong one they are knackard.

I believe the Indian CPL for example is none compliant.

It won't really effect most EU operations but once you are out of the EU you have to be pretty canny what folk are turning up with. There are also insurance implications as well.

Can somebody give me an information to which countries GCAA is compliant ?

Ok, I know that I can forget EU and US...but where is it usable except Gulf?

UAE is on the list but again you have to look at the training requirment for the license you got to find out if ts compliant or not. The ATPL definately is don't know about CPL. They have virtually copied the JAR's word for word so I would imagine you won't have a problem. The only thing left which is FAA based is the FI stuff.

GCAA is fine for alot of the world outside the countries mentioned. In fact I use mine to get other countries approvals because they don't charge for releasing data and they usually respond in under 4 hours and have given me a card with my english level on it.

Unlike the UK CAA who charge you, who then want more money to confirm your english level and the whole thing they claim they will do in 5 working days. BUt by the time you have buggered around get the various forms faxed about from various people and then they don't tell you when you have fallen foul of some policy so everything gets put on hold your looking at 2 weeks.