Bartolini Air Flight School
 

Hi

Just wondered whether anyone had any experience with Bartolini Air Flight School and could give me any feedback. Im thinking of going there to do my ME/IR.

Thanks.

IR/ME
 

Hi,
few things about FTO Bartolini:
1. This is the only FTO in Poland which owns Tecnam P2006T. Ventum Air on it's website informs that they have it as well, but at this moment it's not true yet. At this moment they have only one C-152 ready to fly, the rest of the airplanes on the website it's only commercial.
2. Bartolini has Seneca V 220T as well. So, there is a choice on which airplane you want to fly. However, Tecnam is definitely cheaper than Seneca, no doubts.
3. Bartolini flies from a controlled airfield - Łódź. But, this is not very crowded, so there is no problem to practice holdings and approaches.
4. I never heard any one who complained at Bartolini both airplanes and instructors. And about the financial conditions. I met many people (more than 10) who were disapointed with Ventum Air, especially with the CEO.
5. Finally, if you read another thread about Ventum you will find a little bit more about this FTO. And this is not a kind of vendetta, like some one wrote, this is only "correction" of VA CEO lies.

Summarizing, I think that you will be very glad of IR/ME training in FTO Bartolini.
If you want more details, let me know

Regards

Good morning mr R-27

As i remember you were a author of all lies on another forum. And as i remember we alredy report your activity to Polish CAA and i hope i will see you soon mr anybody.
The people from Polish CAA are looking for you as well. We really wish to know who you are.
The time is tiking for you.

Just to let you know the open day for everyone who wish to see our TECNAM is on 31 of march.
And we have much more plane.
I will repate my invitation for you again. You are more than welcome to visit our school and see all our planes.


And on the and - Bartolini Air is really good school.

Dear felixflyer

As i assume you are from UK.
Best solution for you will be just jump in to the plane and visit polish schools. That will give you all answers.

Unfortunately, some people (R-27) on this forum for the purpose of his life took a generation of false opinions on Ventum AIr. These individuals remain anonymous, which makes them frivolous source of information. They are just cowards who are not able to provide and take responsibility for his words.
So to avoid bad decisions I propose that you just came to Poland for one day and on your own eyes convinced of the advantages or disadvantages of each school.

A few weeks ago Polish CAA has published a very restrictive rules for the pilot schools that can train the foreigners in English.
In a few days on our website should show what the new certificate to the relevant entry in this field.

And I hope this information will help you make decisions.

Training in Poland has many advantages. It is cheaper than in other EU countries, the level of education is very high, the price of accommodation is very low, cost of living is extremely low.

At the moment I may recommend two schools. Of course, Ventum Air and Bartolini Air. They are very long on the market, for 2 years we working together, and until such time as our certificate of practical (we need 1 more week), all of our students'practical training takes place in Bartolini Air.

From the first week of April only those two schools will have Tecnam Aircraft P2006T - which are very cheap in the training.

With little money, you may build your TT on ME plane.

Good luck in continuing your training

nothing new
 

As someone form FTO Ventum Air wrote: A few weeks ago Polish CAA has published a very restrictive rules for the pilot schools that can train the foreigners in English - this is almost true :rolleyes:

In fact, Polish CAA just reminded old rules of training in Poland for foreigners. These rules were announced as a regulation of the Minister of Infrastructure dated 7th August 2003. There were two amendmends of this regulation: 2005 and 2007. Both related to people who were citizens of European Union countries - they do not need any aprovals to conduct pilot training - theoretical and practical. In this case only FTO is obliged to meet some requirements about teachers, materials and language of lectures.

So, for almost 8 years every FTO which wanted to train foreigners, knows these rules perfectly. I say again: nothing new, but still very interesting to know, that pilot training in Poland is available for people from whole world.

you're right but only almost .( as always )
 

you're right but only almost ( as always ) but almost makes a big difference

The polish regulations say you mention a special entry in the certificate for compliance by FTO of training requirements in another language in which you conducted training (practical and theoretical)
Apparently not yet known whether the entry will appear in the certificate of FTO.
Read the rules carefully.

This entry will testify that the FTO has the materials and instructors to conduct the study in that language (those rules do not affect the citizens of the European Union).
This provision has existed for many years but has been neglected. He began to be required in a few weeks ago (published on the website of Polish CAA)

Again you are playing with words and with clear information about the Polish flying schools which are really good and youare trying to do a private war between you and ventumair remaining anonymous (coward trait) on international pilot forum

Follow so on and certainly we will have more students from abroad.
So your next stupid smile and acknowledge you only interested in undermining of our FTO.

The whole branch keeps track of your scribble and wonders what a moron you must be to behave like this.

On behalf of the FTO with whom I have contact and talk about the actions of R-27 i apologize the entire community served was unknown to anyone scribble R-27.

I think that students who choose to train in Poland are very happy and every month there are more and more of them.

Bartolini
 

Bartolini
 

I have a pretty same experience than you. I have made my ME and IR/ME in Bartolini Air and it was a fantastic experience, not only thanks to the airplane (Tecnam). I was also impressed by the instructor professionalism. I may only recommend this school. I will start my CPL here next month. And it is worth to add, that I have alternatives in the city where I live, but I prefer to spend some money on hotels and fly with them. Hopefully I will meet you here :).

Just to let you people know, I am currently thinking about doing my modular ATPL (0-200h) at Bartolini next year. Early in the year I got a quote for approx 120,000 Zlotys for the "cheapest" option ie:lots of C-152 & sim time plus minimum Multiengine/complex type time. That about 27,000 pounds which seems pretty good - of course it will most likely go up by next year...:mad:

And yes - I am Polish too...

Chuck + ski, you know, HE! HE !.. heeee...:sad:

Oh, and as an added bonus - I wondered to their office last time I was in Poland and I have NEVER seen a flightschool with these kinds of premises !

Go to google maps & type in "bartolini air" - zoom in & switch to satellite images - Bartolinis hangar is at the bottom, by the Il-14, the offices at the top (blue roof) by the Tu-134.

Bartolini Air Flight School
 

I did my ME Rating at Bartolini Air Flight School. Great Team, very professional, high standards and a great Airport (EPLL). I recommend this school.

Great school Bartolini in Lodz!
 

The school is very good,the instructors are great and experienced professional pilots and work comercial regurarly not just flight trainning so you get the real experienced people.
The owners/partners and staff are really cool people and always willing to help and find a solution for the best and cheapest possible trainning for you.

Planes are well maintained with on site engineer.
They have tecnam p2006t,cessna 172.150 and seneca V etc.

Lodz is a really good airport some comercial trafic like ryanair,wizz air etc but controlers are very nice to student pilots and look after you.

The town/country is really cheap example:
car rental daily: 15 euro
Hostel Molo: 15 euro
Ikea(3km away) 3 euro 3 course meal!
Beer in a bar: 1.30 euro
cheap cheap cheap!!!

Bartolini air
 

Hi everyone, I hold a Belgium license PPL with night rating and have juste finished the ATPL exam I would like to do my IR/CPL MEP in Poland (Bartolini Air) can someone give me more information about the procedure to transfert my license to poland license.

Thanks

Great flightschool!
 

I just finished my JAA CPL and MEP(L) with Bartolini Air in Lodz, Poland.

The instruction was of the highest level and the team was very professional and great fun to work with.

They delivered on everything they promissed at every step in the process. I was aware from the start that the courses they offer in English are slightly more expensive (though not nearly 15%, more 5%) than courses for Polish students because it is exactly that, a course in English.

Tutorials and lecture materials in English are more expensive than Polish ones, and English speaking instructors are simply able to demand a higher hourly wage.

The level of instruction though was second to none, and I loved flying the Tecnam P2006T. It gave me such value for money, where I was able to fly a multi-engine aircraft for the same price as what I would pay for a C172 in my home country.

Lodz Lublinek is also a geat place to learn to fly. Fully controlled though the tower is not overworked all the time, as there is not a high traffic load ,so they treat the students nicely too.
Brand new runway with loads of space for forced landings, and an ILS with all the nav aids. I will definately do my ME/IR here too once I have managed to scrape the money together.

Another very positive thing in my opinion is that they charge blocktimes. I think it is flight time plus three minutes, so if you have to hold for taxi or take off when there is a big bird on finals, you do no pay anything extra which contributes in my view, especially in the initial parts of your training, to flight safety (no irritation that things take a bit longer so more eye for checks).

Than if you ad brand new facilities (that are next to the runway) and in-house mainenance it becomes , for the price they charge, a no-brainer.

All in all I am a very satisfied customer and I can fully recommend this school to anyone!

bartolini
 

Hi Dude;

Just wanted to know if you did your training with air bartolini? If yes; i will be more than happy if yhou can advised me about this school.

Thanks a lot and am looking forward to hearing from you
Best

Hi, I did several of my training with Bartolini and there is no question that it's the best one in Poland and in my personal opinion one of the best in Europe, especially if you take into account the price/quality ratio. Modern fleet, very professional instructors, everybody is willing to help you in case of any problem. They never try to cheat, I mean that if you need some more flight time, you know that it is just because you really need it, not because they want you to spend more money as some other FTO is sometimes doing. I definitively recommend that FTO. Just read other threads and you will see that I am not the only one.

bartolini vs. ventum
 

I did part of my training at Bartolini in Lodz and part at Ventum in Warsaw. These are my observations:

- @ Bartolini instructors are experienced (most with thousands of flight hours) whereas @ Ventum there is quite a lot of young, many with restricted FI(A) license;
- @ Bartolini you get thorough help with theory problems you face whereas @Ventum your questions are either left with no answer or explained briefly; nevertheless, if you want to pass ATPL exams, you have to learn a lot on your own and (the best way) subscribe to one of the on-line CQs - I can recommend you bistol, e-atpl or aviationexam;
- when you book a flight @ Bartolini for a specific time, most of the time the plane is ready for you when that time comes, @ Ventum you rarely fly at the booked time;
- everybody @ Bartolini is ready to help you with any normal life problems you face when you live in a foreign country; I didn't have the same feeling @ Ventum;
- EPLL (where Bartolini flies) is a controlled airport with an ILS - you practice flying at a controlled airport from the first start; at Lodz Tower all controllers speak English very well; if you need to do your IR training you can practice twice as many approaches as you would do @ Ventum;
- EPBC (where Ventum is located) is not a controlled airport - at Babice Info most controllers speak English very poor... sometimes I wonder how do they pass those language tests?! you don't feel too comfortable when the controller on the other side makes you repeat few times before he understands what you say; what's more, for every IR training flight @ Ventum, you have to count over 30 minutes one way to get to the closest airport with ILS at which you can practice ILS approaches, that is EPLL; yes, EPWA is closer but they rarely allow student IR flights;
- Bartolini owns their Tecnam P2006T, Ventum only leases theirs;
- accommodation in Lodz is cheaper than in Warsaw;
- as "matalice" wrote - there is an IKEA quite close to the Bartolini FTO - a 3 meal tasty course will really cost you 3-4EUR;
- flight time - Ventum counts your SE flight time as 1.15x what moto-hour-meter shows; @ Bartolini it is what "portos8" wrote; also you have to take into account that Bartolini is right by the EPLL runway whereas @ EPBC it takes few minutes before you taxi to the runway; for any training that requires flying the airport circuits - at EPLL the traffic pattern takes around 6 minutes because you fly really close to the airport, at EPBC it takes about 10 minutes because the pattern is organized in a way to go around a housing district; overall, it extends your PPL(A) training by at least 3-5h;
- I found commuting to EPLL much easier than to EPBC; moreover, at EPBC when you get out of tram (the only one that gets you close to the airport gate) you have to walk around 10 minutes to get to the hangar where Ventum is located; you can also commute by bus, but then you have to walk about 1km to get to the airport gate and another 1km to get to the hangar;

Captain Mainwaring - yes, you are right that Bartolini charges international students more, but it is not 15%; f.i. C152 for Polish speaking students - 490PLN, for others - 123EUR which at the actual rate is 502PLN - only 2% more; Tecnam P2006T - 1150PLN/290EUR = 1183PLN = <3% more; the difference is based on the exchange rate of PLN/EUR - currently it is 4.08PLN/EUR; at the time you wrote your post - 20/02/12 it was 4.18PLN/EUR which means they did charge 5% more; I paid much more at Ventum - it ranged up to 50% more than Poles paid;

that's pretty much what I observed when I trained at both schools; I'll write an update if I can think of anything else;

TOPIL-LPTA

update
 

I forgot to write that, if you are thinking of going to Ventum for a "0-ATPL" program - please be aware that (out of the students that came to Ventum for that program) NONE, I repeat - NONE, finished it; I was told that about 15 students started it since early 2011 and there wasn't even a single one that finished it. All of them (except few that just started) do not continue their training at Ventum anymore.

Moreover, Air Campus lost (one f the investors repossessed it) one of their simulators couple of months ago (A320) - vide Aéroports de Lyon vole au secours d and the CEO of Ventum Air still offers TR on that simulator...

that's all for now... stay tuned for more updates,
TOLIP-LPTA

Hello gents!

Maybe somebody knows which airfields used during ME-IR and CPL training in Bartolini Air? EPLL of course, but maybe others also? EPWA for example?
I'll go there in the middle of January to get ME-IR/CPL training and if somebody could give me some info about mentioned trainings I'll be very happy (I mean what kind of instrument approaches are trained, which airfields, what kind of holdings, maybe some specific issues for Poland FIR, description and feedback about skill-test, etc.)

Thank you!
Happy New Year!

RedBullGaveMeWings - It's curious that you try to question my credibility only on the basis of the amount of posts I have written. If you don't agree with me (or state that what I wrote is not true), please try to objectively undermine any of the facts I have included in my posts. I'll be glad to provide as much information as I can. I just want to be helpful to those who consider training in Poland.

I'm also sure that some of those that do have negative opinion about that FTO do not post their opinions here because they are threatened by the CEO of that company. Yes, if you visit and translate some of those web pages I list in my post, you will see what I mean. F.i. - a Norwegian guy who was promised by a Ventum Air CEO a refund for his plane tickets to come and visit FTO Ventum Air (and did not get the money for couple of weeks, despite few e-mail reminders) wrote his story at pprune and was threatened by the CEO to be sued for what he wrote. He finally got his money right after he wrote few posts at pprune. Visit Ventum Air : Trafikkflyger - Side 3 and find out for yourself.

Moreover, when Loff (from the thread above) was offered a training contract at Ventum Air, this FTO did not even have an FTO certificate of the polish CAA to provide any other than theory trainings. At that time they did not own a single plane.

Furthermore, there is an interesting thread about Ventum Air at pprune - http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...-merged-7.html

There is much more negative information about this school at polish web pages. If you can read Polish (or have somebody that can translate it for you) please visit the following few:

Szybowce.Com - Grupy dyskusyjne - Teoria do ATPL w Ventum Air - pro¶ba o opinie

Gdzie najlepszy distance learning??

Szybowce.Com - Grupy dyskusyjne - Re: ATPL(A) teoria - gdzie ?

[CPL(A)] Szkolenie CPL w Warszawie

As far as Metlik's question is concerned - they do fly at EPLL mostly. There is quite a few airports with ILS capabilities within 1h flight from EPLL (by P2006T): EPBY, EPPO, EPKT, EPWR, little further EPKK (1h15min), EPZG (30min from EPPO) and EPGD (1h from EPBY). EPWA - they don't like training flights at all. If you fly VMC (and file a flight plan), they will let you in without any problems. The only problem is that (sometimes) they make you wait 20minutes before you can perform a low-pass ar a full landing if you wish. With IMC flights you fly the same path as those big planes fly. With P2006T you can fly about 120-130knots which is pretty slow for an approaching A320 or B737. Therefore they don't like IMC training flights. At other polish airports which are not that busy, you can always find a time-frame when there is no arrivals/departures. Also, I noticed that at other airports controllers are more helpful.

>>With P2006T you can fly about 120-130knots which is pretty slow for an >>approaching A320 or B737. Therefore they don't like IMC training flights.

The same situation in Riga (EVRA): you should book the time slot for the IFR training flight one day before and nobody promises you, that you will get a exact time you want.

In Poland ME-IR/CPL skill test usually is ~2h long, as I know. Seems that time will be enough to make a minimum program: 1xVOR approach and 2xILS at EPLL. Maybe SID, STAR, some holdings, steep turns etc. I'm right?

Thank you for information!

Yes, 2h should be enough if your examiner lets you stay at EPLL. I heard that some of them like to take students for an exam approaches to an unknown airport (well.. at least not the one you performed most of your IR training approaches). Be prepared to fly to EPPO or EPBY. Moreover, I think that if you take both exams at the same time (CPL(A) and IR/ME), you will have to have a 30min break between both exams. CPL also has to be evaluated somehow - most likely, if you don't stay at EPLL, the flight to f.i. EPPO will be treated as the CPL exam. Best way is to ask your instructor at the beginning of your training - he will be able to provide you with the most up-to-date information.

Seems, that even NDB approach has a possibility to happen. I never flown NDB approaches because in Latvia we doesn't have the NDB's. Will need to train it.

Thank you for information and Happy New Year!

Americans stopped using NDB approach plates in 2005 (AOPA Online: So long to 216 NDB approach procedures). As far as I know, GA still uses them but unofficially - although no valid approach plates exit, some of those NDBs are still up and running.

For exam, if your examiner decides to test you on that (although I doubt it) he will most like take you to EPBY - closest airport with valid NDB procedures.

Anyway, I've been told that (in Poland) all NDB procedures are going to be decommissioned sometime late 2013 or 2014.

Thought I'd give my experience of Bartolini as a few people have sent me a PM asking about them.

I live in the UK and did my PPL and most of my hour building here. I came across Bartolini through a friend and was drawn to them by the low cost in comparison to UK schools.
After visiting them in January last year for a day, I immediately got a good impression of them and decided to do my ME/IR/CPL training here.
Turned out to be a great decision, I highly recommend Bartolini - instructors are very experienced and friendly guys, the training was well structured and although given support throughout, you are taught how to find things out for yourself rather than being spoon-fed the whole way....makes for a better pilot in my opinion.
I passed all skills tests first time, in minimum hours and although there were times where Bartolini could have gotten extra hours out of me, they did not. I spent exactly what I was quoted in the contract, no hidden charges.
Part of my training was flying to Latvia and back which is by far the best flying experience I have had to date.

Just to note, all my ratings & license have been added/issued by UK CAA.

The people at Bartolini cannot do enough for you, and they've have helped me out many times since with getting my license and ratings issued, including them making trips to Polish CAA in Warsaw on my behalf.
I made some good friends and am still in touch with the school. I hope to go back this summer for some flying trips.

If anyone is considering their training at Bartolini, I recommend a trip out there for a day or two, even do some hour building there and you'll see they are a great school. Ryanair & Wizz fly to Lodz from Stansted & Luton.
At the end of it all, I spent half the amount of money for my training at Bartolini as I would have in UK, even accounting for accomodation, flights etc.
Lodz is a great city and very cheap to live!

So, I'm back home and I can share my experience with Bartolini Air (sorry for my not excellent English in front of all):

In simple words speaking - I'm more than satisfied with Bartolini Air!

I've got ME-IR training and CPL skill-test in Lodz and it taken from me just a 4 days! Can you imagine so short period of time for training during the winter time? Me not. But it was done and I would like to tell to Bartolini crew many thanks for that! There is a great, experienced, highly motivated and really friendly instructors. No any hidden fees - everything was as they promise before.

For newcomers I suggest to be prepared for training in advance (if you want to get just separated ME, ME-IR, CPL, etc. training instead of full course): before you come you can get all the documents you will need for training - checklists, SOP, documentation etc. If you plan to fly with P2006T be prepared for glass cockpit - it really good one! :) You can use the G1000 emulator for PC and become familiar with all the things you need. It will helps you during the training and saves your time and money for sure.

If you will go to Bartolini I suggest you to stay in Basniowa hotel - it is just 10 min walk to the airfield, there is a nice rooms and big dinning room with the fireplace (trust me, there is nothing better to sit close to it after several hours of flying in winter :) ). There is possible to meet other students and discuss all the things about aviation and womans. And BTW it's almost for free :)

Just PM me if you need additional info.
Cheers!

Red bull, yes they do, from 10hrs and up. Get in touch with them and they'll help you out.

If I remember it right, they use books from Oxford..

Ventum Air vs. Bartolini Air
 

About theory trainings - Polish CAO (called ULC) published recently interesting documents at their web page - Urz?d Lotnictwa Cywilnego - Statystyki Komisji Egzaminacyjnej - you can check how students of all schools passed their exams (in 2012).

Just to sum up for those that don't have too much time - a comparison of Bartolini Air (the only other FTO in Poland that flies TECNAM P2006T) and Ventum Air based on the ATPL theory results:

Bartolini Air - ATPL average score: 85,29%, successful attempts 55/61 = 90,16% (meaning 9 out of 10 attempts are successful)
Ventum Air - ATPL average score: 81,81%, successful attempts 216/286 = 75,52% (meaning 7.5 out of 10 attempts are successful)

You can easily see who goes for quality and who goes for quantity.

fees
 

so it bartolini air the kind of school that you 'pay as you go' or by installments?

im looking to do integrated ATPL that allows me to pay as i go.

looks like bartolini air is a great sch!

When I was there i only paid the module I took up front so "pay as you go" but check with them if it is still like that.

Bartolini Air - Poland. Experience of existing students?
 

Hi everyone,

Has anyone got any experience with Bartolini Air in Poland? It was suggested to me by someone but I would like to see if any others have experience with this school.

Also, has anyone done the ATPLs in Warsaw? Just wondering if the location/ lack of Polish created any excessive hassle?

Bartolini Air - Poland. Experience of existing students?
 

There are also some others threads about Bartolini. Maybe you can find some useful information there as well. I'm also thinking of going there, to get my ppl but first I have got to sort out some financial problems.

try a search. Plenty about bartolini, some of it recent, and some comments also about polish exam costs

yes, there is a separated thread for Bartolini - no point to duplicate the answers.

My apologies! trolling through older threads now... :ok:

ATPLs in Poland
 

Hi guys,

I'd like to do the ATPLs with Bartolini. Has anyone done their ATPLs in Warsaw? Was it all straight forward or there was some additional hassle involved?

Many thanks

News from the school
 

Hi,

Anyone here who had recent experiences with bartolini-air? Mostly for cpl, ir me, or even FI rating?

FI(A) at Bartolini
 

I have the same interest as Federico.
Thinking of the FI(A) at Bartolini :rolleyes:(sorry Olive oil crosses my mind when I hear this name):ugh:
Have searched the forum but not found much evidence.
Anyone has done it, want to do it…

I've been there recently to finish my CPL(A) training (started at another Polish FTO, which turned out to be unreliable - vide http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...ml#post7603942), refresh my IR (ME) training and take CPL/IR (ME) practical exams. It had a very nice time there and would recommend it to each and every prospective student. If you need more information (f.i. who did I train with, who was my examiner and what did he pay special attention to, etc.) please PM me - I'll try to answer to the best of my knowledge.