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-   -   Baltic Aviation Academy (https://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/428114-baltic-aviation-academy.html)

P40Warhawk 6th Jul 2018 11:18


Originally Posted by Warlock1 (Post 10188870)
No, I am an employee.
they don't have enough airplanes. So, instructors are discouraged from grounding an airplane as much as possible, cause if they do, students will sit for days due to poor maintenance.
some of ground courses are jokes. not enough instructors to teach, so most of the time, you are teaching yourself at home.
if you stay in Kaunas base, you are in civilization but if you are sent to Istra base, you are in the middle of nowhere and you are expected to find your own accommodations and provide for your own transportation to an airport that doesn't have public transpo.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Especially, I was in the very first F ATPL program in 2011. Yes not everything is perfect, but everyone was VERY helpful to us if we needed anything. Also with finding an place to live. In Vilnius as well in Kaunas.
Yes we had in groundschool an instructor who spoke very bad English, but he was replaced within a day because we as students said that this is not the way we wish to get instructed. The instructor was an University Teacher, who knows what he is talking about but cannot explain it in English. That problem was solved within a day.

Bad Maintenance? Nonsense. The planes are relatively new Tecnams and C172SP. We had besides the std issues and maintenance no problems. Every 50 hrs they go to a bigger check.

All in all honestly, I have no idea what you are talking about. I have been always in contact with BAA ever since. Done also my TR737 with them. And plenty ex students who got jobs rather quick after graduating. That would NOT be the case if the students would be trained badly.

Same now with the Cadet programs with Smartlynx, Wizz, Avion Express and Small Planet. If the airlines would not believe in the school, then they would have not wanted to work with them.

zac2711 16th Jul 2018 07:46

Baltic Aviation Academy advice for newbie
 
Hi everyone, i am new to PPRuNe and as the title suggests i'm inclined to enrol for my pilot training at BAA, based on my research it seems like it is a good academy. Would be much appreciated if there is anyone out there who's had experience with the academy or an ex-student/alumni to shed some advice on the quality and the school itself.

I've also looked into the assessment process which requires a profile test and a compass test, and i have no idea what to expect or the means to prepare for them. I have just been brushing up on my maths and physics but im not certain if this is sufficient. Any advice would be highly appreciated.

cheers

Flion 22nd Jul 2018 12:04

What are the differences between BAA and Pilot Academy website which also offers Wizzair cadet program through 2 schools Egnatia Aviaiton and Trener KFT? There's also L3 ATO offering wizzair cadet program? Which one is "genuine"?

Johnboy92 22nd Jul 2018 12:58

Hello Everyone,

I too am researching BAA as a potential place to study. However I'm finding it very difficult to find any unbiased, honest reviews about this place. The glossy website and the polished youtube channel certainly makes it look like a very tempting prospect. But what is the reality?

Thanks!

Nurse2Pilot 22nd Jul 2018 21:53

I've looked at this school too, can anyone explain why their school is right beside an airport but they do their flying some other place instead of the one just right next door?

Johnboy92 23rd Jul 2018 13:57


Originally Posted by av8tor396 (Post 10203660)
There is a pretty good reason why the have their plane crash every year: Single engine last year, multi engine this year.
Don't be fooled by their happy facebook page. There are students who are currently not able to fly because there is no instructor or enough plane

Hi av8tor396, Thank you for sharing, can I ask where you/I can find information about these accidents etc? A google search has returned nothing - Am I missing something?

Thanks!

RomanK 23rd Jul 2018 18:06


Originally Posted by Johnboy92 (Post 10203977)
Hi av8tor396, Thank you for sharing, can I ask where you/I can find information about these accidents etc? A google search has returned nothing - Am I missing something?

Thanks!

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=213591
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=198340

Johnboy92 24th Jul 2018 08:29

Thanks RomanK and av8tor396, I think it's safe to say, this one is crossed off the list! Having done some other research into the other connected companies such as Small Planet, my gut is telling me to steer clear and don't look back!

Warlock1 27th Jul 2018 09:13


Originally Posted by tecnamflyer (Post 10206975)
The academy is disaster right now. No one flying because many planes into the maintenance with problems. Many student have weeks of no flying, all time they say a new plan and new plan never happens.

Now recently ATC is not working all day so they close airport in the middle of the day. People are waiting many months between different phases and don't know what to do in this time. It feels like no one really care about students.

They have too many students in the school and refuse to invest for the facilities, they said they invest only what they need but actually it's not enough. Everyone still in very big delays.

When you try to organise your training nobody wants to speak to you, but if you have late payment problem everyone chase you immediately and say they will stop the training.

That is a dead on observation!!! Thank you so much for having the courage to voice it out.
Like someone else has said, don't just go with their happy facebook page feeds. Talk to some of the current students in order to find out what a disaster this place really is.

Jurow 27th Jul 2018 10:26

It is partially wrong,

The entire fleet was grounded for 1 day due to the crash (for a check I presumed).
All the SEP operations have resumed the following day.
The P2006T Tecnam is due to be grounded for scheduled maintenance in the next weeks but still flying.
BAA is looking for new aircrafts to lease/rent following this incident and the development of the Ab initio department.

ATCs have summer holidays like anybody. They have hired new staff recently so they are not fully competent at the moment, that's right.
I do complain myself about the organisation but still have the feeling that it's worth the money, assuming you're in a cadet program.

The contract specified that the training takes place for a period no more than 2 years so, you already know what to except before signing.
Some people finished earlier, and that leads to the common expectation that it will be the same for them.

If you pass the selections for a cadet program, I think it is still a valuable opportunity.
The groundschool is OK, they changed the CBT recently (Bristol > PadPilot).

More informations for the new base are supposed to be released next week.

WarLock is no more an employee of BAA despite what he said. Fact.

tecnamflyer 27th Jul 2018 13:13


Originally Posted by Jurow (Post 10207561)
It is partially wrong,

The entire fleet was grounded for 1 day due to the crash (for a check I presumed).
All the SEP operations have resumed the following day.
The P2006T Tecnam is due to be grounded for scheduled maintenance in the next weeks but still flying.
BAA is looking for new aircrafts to lease/rent following this incident and the development of the Ab initio department.

ATCs have summer holidays like anybody. They have hired new staff recently so they are not fully competent at the moment, that's right.
I do complain myself about the organisation but still have the feeling that it's worth the money, assuming you're in a cadet program.

The contract specified that the training takes place for a period no more than 2 years so, you already know what to except before signing.
Some people finished earlier, and that leads to the common expectation that it will be the same for them.

If you pass the selections for a cadet program, I think it is still a valuable opportunity.
The groundschool is OK, they changed the CBT recently (Bristol > PadPilot).

More informations for the new base are supposed to be released next week.

Where you are getting such incorrect informations from? You are flying or ground school in Vilnius? I don't think you know what you are talking about.

'All SEP operations resumed following day' ... you are joking? Only 1 aircraft is flying for a number of days and they still in the maintenance, the weekend no one knows what's happening. Can you imagine such big number of cadets and many airlines and they are having 1 plane only serviceable?

P2006T is flying now? This is not correct. They had 2. One is gone from incident last week and another is in maintenance now few weeks and will be again for at least 3/4 more weeks. No multi engine now in the school. Yes they try to lease but will take time and not easy.

ATC holidays? Wrong. One ATC left and no replacement for a while. Now imagine to be stuck in the middle of the VFR and no training and nobody want listen.

Constant92 27th Jul 2018 15:10


Originally Posted by Jurow (Post 10207561)
<br />I do complain myself about the organisation but still have the feeling that it's worth the money, assuming you're in a cadet program.<br />

This. I am still at the ground school stage, but I would also agree that BAA is a good option for cadet students in particular. To have a guaranteed job at the price we are paying is invaluable in my opinion and it is precisely the reason why I chose this FTO. Otherwise, I would have most likely chosen the modular route. The price of an integrated ATPL FTE/CAE/L3 was simply too high for me, so BAA with the cadet program I'm in was probably the most sensible decision given my circumstances.

I can only comment about the ground school part of the training - overall we are on track with the schedule, but the school definitely needs to improve when it comes to organisation. They don't have enough ground school instructors which means that the schedule you have received may change, as well as the order of subjects. Communication with the students also needs to be improved. We are awaiting clear information regarding the base in Spain which the training managers don't seem to have yet, this is causing frustration among many students.

As far as the quality of teaching is concerned, it can be hit or miss. For our first subject, our teacher was simply really bad. We informed the school and they dealt with the matter immediately. A few days later we had a new instructor, probably the students' favorite here at BAA. Some of the other instructors are also great (knowledgeable, enthusiastic, engage with the students), some less, some with plenty of experience but not necessarily on top of the ATPL syllabus. Like I said, it can be hit or miss based on my experience.

Another aspect worth mentioning is the flexibility the school gives you with the CAA exams. After each block of subjects, the school will schedule a 2 to 3 weeks CAA exam session. It is however entirely up to you to decide when you want to open a session at the CAA as well to decide on the number of exams you want to take. You can basically open a session at any time and the booking system is very simple. Gives us the students more flexibility, but I can now see that it also creates some issues for the school as students from a particular group end up not finishing the ground school part at the same time.

Jurow 28th Jul 2018 06:42


Where you are getting such incorrect informations from?
Training manager and students based in Kaunas.

[QUOTE] Can you imagine such big number of cadets and many airlines and they are having 1 plane only serviceable? [ /QUOTE]

This is related to the organisation of the operations which I do complain sometimes about too. My view on this point is that It will surely be fixed quite fast and that lessons will be learned.


P2006T is flying now? This is not correct. They had 2. One is gone from incident last week and another is in maintenance now few weeks and will be again for at least 3/4 more weeks. No multi engine now in the school.
That's what I've been told, "the PT2006 remaining is due to maintenance but in the next weeks not atm".


ATC holidays? Wrong. One ATC left and no replacement for a while. Now imagine to be stuck in the middle of the VFR and no training and nobody want listen.
Well tell me how is this event related to BAA ?
I was thinking that our complains were not considered until one TM told me that they are actually working their *** off in order to get back on track and I don't question her honesty about it, because the tensions within the staff and students have increased due to the displacement of the operations in Spain and the new questions related to this move.

At the same time the school bought 2 new sims and new aircrafts (which doesn't solve the actual problem of the undersized fleet) extending their facilities so I think the money is here, they just need somebody with a strong background at the head of the department, thing's done atm, to focus on this part.

My 2cts

Warlock1 28th Jul 2018 07:21


Originally Posted by Jurow (Post 10207561)
It is partially wrong,

The entire fleet was grounded for 1 day due to the crash (for a check I presumed).
All the SEP operations have resumed the following day.
The P2006T Tecnam is due to be grounded for scheduled maintenance in the next weeks but still flying.
BAA is looking for new aircrafts to lease/rent following this incident and the development of the Ab initio department.

ATCs have summer holidays like anybody. They have hired new staff recently so they are not fully competent at the moment, that's right.
I do complain myself about the organisation but still have the feeling that it's worth the money, assuming you're in a cadet program.

The contract specified that the training takes place for a period no more than 2 years so, you already know what to except before signing.
Some people finished earlier, and that leads to the common expectation that it will be the same for them.

If you pass the selections for a cadet program, I think it is still a valuable opportunity.
The groundschool is OK, they changed the CBT recently (Bristol > PadPilot).

More informations for the new base are supposed to be released next week.

WarLock is no more an employee of BAA despite what he said. Fact.

Spoken like a true patriot (employee) of BAA :) :) :)
Are you even listening to yourself? Me being a current or an ex employee of that place doesn't change the facts of what went on there until a month ago:
Facts:
- Never enough aircrafts. Instructors sometimes getting into arguments among each other because of this! of course, a student ends up not flying because of this.
- CFI complaining about instructors who are grounding the planes! (When aircraft is grounded for legitimate reasons, again, not enough planes! Students not flying for days)
- Students initially being told that they will fly at Kaunas base. Students finding accommodations and paying deposits in Kaunas, only to find out later on that they will fly at Istra. Deposits GONE, nobody cares.
- No public transportation in Istra! If you wanna get to Istra base you either find a cab, or pay the school hired van (each way) to get there.
- Some of the ground school subjects were simply jokes! Instructor shows up, says few stuff about non related stuff, asks students to go and study at home.
I can go on and on about the background of whats happening but its always easier to find out the truth from the current students.
As for me, it was the best day of my life when I gave you guys the finger and quit that place. If you feel like analyzing, ask yourself as to why that company has a revolving door policy when it comes to instructors and why nobody stays at that place for more then few months ;)

youngretired 28th Jul 2018 16:24

I think you guys may read "pay a visit to the school and see by yourself" every second page of this forum.
Well, I did that for the BAA.
To speak as a someone has passed their inital selection succesfully, I can suggest please stay away from this people.
I've seen almost 5 ATO's in my life including some regional clubs, until BAA.
Even upmost relax one of those 5 ATOs will treat you better than these people.
And if you don't believe "the first impression", then you may still have some bucks to lose.

Constant92 28th Jul 2018 17:45


Originally Posted by youngretired (Post 10208622)
I think you guys may read "pay a visit to the school and see by yourself" every second page of this forum.
Well, I did that for the BAA.
To speak as a someone has passed their inital selection succesfully, I can suggest please stay away from this people.
I've seen almost 5 ATO's in my life including some regional clubs, until BAA.
Even upmost relax one of those 5 ATOs will treat you better than these people.
And if you don't believe "the first impression", then you may still have some bucks to lose.

Hi youngretired, it would me most helpful if you could describe what went wrong during your selections. My initial impressions were the opposite, everyone was nice, there were no surprises. Thanks.

Jurow 29th Jul 2018 06:57


- Never enough aircrafts. Instructors sometimes getting into arguments among each other because of this! of course, a student ends up not flying because of this.
- CFI complaining about instructors who are grounding the planes! (When aircraft is grounded for legitimate reasons, again, not enough planes! Students not flying for days)
- Students initially being told that they will fly at Kaunas base. Students finding accommodations and paying deposits in Kaunas, only to find out later on that they will fly at Istra. Deposits GONE, nobody cares.
- No public transportation in Istra! If you wanna get to Istra base you either find a cab, or pay the school hired van (each way) to get there.
- Some of the ground school subjects were simply jokes! Instructor shows up, says few stuff about non related stuff, asks students to go and study at home.
I can go on and on about the background of whats happening but its always easier to find out the truth from the current students.
As for me, it was the best day of my life when I gave you guys the finger and quit that place. If you feel like analyzing, ask yourself as to why that company has a revolving door policy when it comes to instructors and why nobody stays at that place for more then few months
At least you're giving details and not generalities, and I agree with your statements.

BAA operations are harmed by the amount of new students following the success of the cadet programs and their lack of preparation to sustain the pace of their training due to the high ratio of students/plane. In the last "BAA to students" newsletter they indicated their strategy to expand the fleet to 2x its size (only words some will say, but at the moment there is no other options from my perspective).

Concerning the CFI, I'm not concerned so I leave it to you.

About the LMC for the change of base, that's a real pitty, BUT you're supposed to get you're deposit back when you leave your flat so BAA cannot protect you again scammers.
To give my experience, my roommate and I have found an accommodation before moving in and the reality was completely different than the description. We asked the help of my sales manager to find the solution with the agency and now everything is mostly ok (but really shitty owner - again). At least, we had the support of this person in BAA.

About the ground instructors, yes it's a joke for certain subjects but again, if students complain in most of the case the instructor is fired (happened 2x since february). But you cannot really escape the feeling that you have to get the knowledge by yourself, because your main source of knowledge is the QUESTION BANK. But some instructors are very friendly and skilled. You cannot predict the level of an instructor just with an assessment right ?

Flight instructors are under pressure in this school like any other nowadays due to the positive economic trend for pilot opportunities, a lot of them have made the transition.
Any way with BAA you're getting paid when you're flying (because a plane on a ground is not lucrative), and the majority of the instructors want to build hours before looking for a FO position, like in any other ATO.

My point - BAA is a valuable option if you're looking for an integrated scheme with a cadet program - stands still considering my own experience. Even after 2 weeks you could find people being disappointed, that's the way it is and the source of complains varies between individuals and their expectations.


if you don't believe "the first impression"
Well my first impression was quite the opposite so I guess, it depends of your expectation.
Had the opportunity to have a little tour of the facilities and seat in the 737sim (cold & dark without studs).
Had the answer for the COMPASS test the next day.

The only thing is that if you apply for a specific cadet program and you're not successuf, they will not tell you why (like any other ATOs).

Nurse2Pilot 29th Jul 2018 12:52

Why is it up to the students to complain about a bad instructor? Is it not up to the school to make sure they hire the good instructors and not the bad ones?

youngretired 29th Jul 2018 17:36


Originally Posted by Constant92 (Post 10208674)
Hi youngretired, it would me most helpful if you could describe what went wrong during your selections. My initial impressions were the opposite, everyone was nice, there were no surprises. Thanks.

It was a long trip for me to get Vilnius on time for the selections and I've made it on time. Obviously, being precise at timing was not their priority. I've been told to wait for the interviewer almost five hours on a couch in the lobby. The lady who suppose to interview me asked for a leave (I assume) and another lady took care of me after her scheduled skype interviews. There was no site seeing or sim-shows for me either. Waiting, drinking tea and water and more waiting. Loud students playing around and some more waiting. In the meanwhile the marketing people were not there for me to say hi.

My assumption is; before the compass tests and interviews, they already have an idea which candidates are more desirable for the companies and you'll be treated with this prejudice. I'm also surprised by people says in this forum how the people were nice etc. The only nice person was the admin lady who took care of me with little chat and couple cups of tea.

Those are my first impression about the BAA and our further interactions with them were not succeeded to change it to a better way. It's been a while since I was there and I'm not here to play any blame game. This forum has long pages of stories about this type of ATOs having their good and bad times, and as we are not their stakeholders, it's better to tell young folks when and how they are bad and what to expect.

Constant92 29th Jul 2018 18:00


Originally Posted by youngretired (Post 10209420)
It was a long trip for me to get Vilnius on time for the selections and I've made it on time. Obviously, being precise at timing was not their priority. I've been told to wait for the interviewer almost five hours on a couch in the lobby. The lady who suppose to interview me asked for a leave (I assume) and another lady took care of me after her scheduled skype interviews. There was no site seeing or sim-shows for me either. Waiting, drinking tea and water and more waiting. Loud students playing around and some more waiting. In the meanwhile the marketing people were not there for me to say hi.

My assumption is; before the compass tests and interviews, they already have an idea which candidates are more desirable for the companies and you'll be treated with this prejudice. I'm also surprised by people says in this forum how the people were nice etc. The only nice person was the admin lady who took care of me with little chat and couple cups of tea.

Those are my first impression about the BAA and our further interactions with them were not succeeded to change it to a better way. It's been a while since I was there and I'm not here to play any blame game. This forum has long pages of stories about this type of ATOs having their good and bad times, and as we are not their stakeholders, it's better to tell young folks when and how they are bad and what to expect.

Hi youngretired, this is unfortunate and I can only sympathise with you, this is clearly not how the school should have dealt with you. Once again, my experience was drastically different... Let's hope that most of the prospective students have a positive initial impression - I'm confident that's the case.

Regarding your second paragraph, I have to strongly disagree... The school currently runs 4 cadet programs, the cadets are of all age, from many different nationalities (btw we have Italians for the Wizz, Avion Express and Small Planet programs, not sure about Smartlynx) and from all walks of life. The very purpose of the compass test is to determine whether you satisfy the school's and the respective companies' criteria before being accepted to the next stage of the selections. All the best.

skip_distance 11th Aug 2018 05:13

Greetings all,

I'm looking to enrol myself for a self-sponsored type rating programme with Baltic. Would to be nice for someone who's been there in the recent past to throw some light on its functionalities with respect to trainers,sims,professionalism and anything else that I may need to know. I'm getting mixed reviews about the ATO ranging from " don't even think about it!" to some others who seemed to have a had a decent experience. My options are open, if someone could re-direct me to another trto that strikes a fine balance between being cost-effective and still maintaining training standards, would be of great help.


regards.

Kaeser 13th Aug 2018 12:30

I’ve just read all your messages on this forum and as a AB initio student (WIZZ AIR CADET) in this school I would like to add a few things concerning your opinion.

Indeed, the school is overwhelmed by the success of their cadet programs and they’re struggling to follow the pace. It’s true, sometimes, I had bad instructors (specially for RNAV and POF) and the organization is often « random », plans and planning have changed every 2 months.

But to be honest at the beginning I planned to go to CAE and I’ve changed my choice when I saw the price difference (almost half….) and all the BAA partnerships. I don’t regret my choice and I’m gonna explain why.

- Even if the school has sometimes bad experience with some instructors, after each subject they ask us to make a report… usually when instructors don’t get good marks… they’re fired…

- Some of the instructors (Peter, Ylies, Airspeaks with real ATC Vilnius tower) are very good, professional and friendly. They try to do everything to help you, even calling you on a weekend to be sure that you understood the topics and propose you additional class for free.

- I can see that the school is really doing everything to help us to find a job, and/or a partnership with an airline. We are 13 in the class, at the beginning 3 of us started without any partnership with an airline (self-sponsored). The school has done everything to send them to pass new assessments with all their partner airlines (Avion, Wizz, Smartlynx, Smallplanet) until they succeed and now, we are all involved in a cadet program… the school could have kept these places to attract new students and get more money… they didn’t do that…

- Some of our good instructors were students before… (Mass&Balance, meteo, flight planning) , that mean even if they didn’t find a job straight after the ATPL.. the school hired them and has kept helping after they finished the training.. for information now.. 2 of them (out of 3) were hired by wizz air (helped by BAA)

- At the beginning of the training we were supposed to fly only in LITHUANIA (it means… being grounded during few months due to bad weather in this country)… they’ve opened a base in Spain this year to provide us a complete training without any interruption to finish as fast as possible… the price didn’t change at all and the school is even paying for the flights between Lithuania and Spain… some students are still complaining because they want tickets with extrabaggages… (just for comparison, at L3 they were supposed to fly to New Zealand, they paid almost 130 000€ and the school closed the base and now they have to fly in UK, without any compensation…

- And to finish… these partnerships with airlines are for me PRICELESS…. (just for information the Wizz air cadet program costs 128000€ with L3, and good luck regarding the price of the life when you stay 2 years in UK comparing to Lithuania)

To sum up everything , Don’t hesitate to get in touch with existing students.. it’s the best way to make your own decision.. because usually internet shows only the worst.

skip_distance 13th Aug 2018 16:18

Thank you for your input Kaeser. Since you're already at the academy, is it possible to connect me with some of the students who're currently pursuing a rating on the 320 at BAA?

Kaeser 16th Aug 2018 11:29


Originally Posted by skip_distance (Post 10222620)
Thank you for your input Kaeser. Since you're already at the academy, is it possible to connect me with some of the students who're currently pursuing a rating on the 320 at BAA?

Basically, we are not in the same building and I know nothing regarding this part of the school :S , Maybe you can call the reception and ask yourself for some contacts with students passing the QT.

ZFT 16th Aug 2018 12:03


Originally Posted by Kaeser (Post 10222474)
I’ve just read all your messages on this forum and as a AB initio student (WIZZ AIR CADET) in this school I would like to add a few things concerning your opinion.

Indeed, the school is overwhelmed by the success of their cadet programs and they’re struggling to follow the pace. It’s true, sometimes, I had bad instructors (specially for RNAV and POF) and the organization is often « random », plans and planning have changed every 2 months.

But to be honest at the beginning I planned to go to CAE and I’ve changed my choice when I saw the price difference (almost half….) and all the BAA partnerships. I don’t regret my choice and I’m gonna explain why.

- Even if the school has sometimes bad experience with some instructors, after each subject they ask us to make a report… usually when instructors don’t get good marks… they’re fired…

- Some of the instructors (Peter, Ylies, Airspeaks with real ATC Vilnius tower) are very good, professional and friendly. They try to do everything to help you, even calling you on a weekend to be sure that you understood the topics and propose you additional class for free.

- I can see that the school is really doing everything to help us to find a job, and/or a partnership with an airline. We are 13 in the class, at the beginning 3 of us started without any partnership with an airline (self-sponsored). The school has done everything to send them to pass new assessments with all their partner airlines (Avion, Wizz, Smartlynx, Smallplanet) until they succeed and now, we are all involved in a cadet program… the school could have kept these places to attract new students and get more money… they didn’t do that…

- Some of our good instructors were students before… (Mass&Balance, meteo, flight planning) , that mean even if they didn’t find a job straight after the ATPL.. the school hired them and has kept helping after they finished the training.. for information now.. 2 of them (out of 3) were hired by wizz air (helped by BAA)

- At the beginning of the training we were supposed to fly only in LITHUANIA (it means… being grounded during few months due to bad weather in this country)… they’ve opened a base in Spain this year to provide us a complete training without any interruption to finish as fast as possible… the price didn’t change at all and the school is even paying for the flights between Lithuania and Spain… some students are still complaining because they want tickets with extrabaggages… (just for comparison, at L3 they were supposed to fly to New Zealand, they paid almost 130 000€ and the school closed the base and now they have to fly in UK, without any compensation…

- And to finish… these partnerships with airlines are for me PRICELESS…. (just for information the Wizz air cadet program costs 128000€ with L3, and good luck regarding the price of the life when you stay 2 years in UK comparing to Lithuania)

To sum up everything , Don’t hesitate to get in touch with existing students.. it’s the best way to make your own decision.. because usually internet shows only the worst.

L3 school in Hamilton NZ has not closed

hid3 18th Aug 2018 14:44

BAA and Wizz Air Cadet programme wannabe - questions
 
Hello everyone!

A new member here, my first post, but been reading the forum for some time.

I am 31 years old, currently living and working in Vilnius (Lithuania). It's the same location where BAA flight school is located, basically only 8 km from my house.
I work as an IT engineer, also have some part time activities. I want to change my occupation, since the work I do is really dull and boring (same office every day, same people in the office, boring activities which I know by heart, no challence, etc). I finally decided that I want to be a (Airbus A320) pilot. Been curious about A320 for several past years, exploring it as amateur and somehow thought it would be ncie to do that for living.

The good news is that I have saved the required amount of money for the tranings.
Bad news is that I'm 10-12 years late to join this sphere :(

I have already had a quick conversation with a representative from BAA. I was informed about Wizz Air Cadet programme, the price of the studies (approx. 62k Euro, some amount is sponsored by Wizz, although no Type Rating in this price, as far as I understand). I was informed that in order for me to join the school, the following must be passed/obtained:
1) Profile XT test;
2) English language written test;
3) Compass test;
4) Interview with BAA;
5) Class 1 medical certificate.

Since during last 7-8 years I didn't have any interviews/tests/etc, this makes me a bit embarrased. I know that Profile XT test will be carried out in native language and is just a personality test, so shouldn't be difficult. I also believe my English is good enough so English test should go fine too.
I have checked my health recently (I told the doctors I will be needing Class 1) - almost everything is fine but I need a surgery for nasal septum... Not a problem, I will do that in case I pass the selection process.
However.. Compass test and the Interview part makes me worried a bit.

I have signed up at PilotAptitudeTest.com website and tried to solve maths and physics tests there for a few days. After multiple solving, I noticed that the questions start to repeat and I know the answers by heart :)

My goals (long term):
-Obtain CPL
-Start working at Wizz Air (or maybe there are better companies?) and fly as much hours as possible during first few years to gain experience and overtake the "10-12 years beeing too late in this sphere".

PS: I have had a 1 hour A320 similator session at BAA with an instructor. I think I did fine having in mind that I had no experience and it was the first time being behind the cockpit.

Questions:
-Has anyone attended BAA? How's the school? How's the staff? What are pros and cons of this school?
-Could someone please tell me more about the Compass test at BAA? What sources are the best to use to prepare for it, what to expect during the test? What is the percentage of passed/failed people, etc? Can I use paper and pen during the test? (Primary for math calculations) How long does the test last?
-Any hints, tips, tricks or experiences about the interview at BAA?
-Finally, is my decision on all the above correct? Or am I far away from reality?

Sorry for longish first post and thanks for your answers! :)

P40Warhawk 19th Aug 2018 14:52


Originally Posted by hid3 (Post 10227327)
Hello everyone!

A new member here, my first post, but been reading the forum for some time.

I am 31 years old, currently living and working in Vilnius (Lithuania). It's the same location where BAA flight school is located, basically only 8 km from my house.
I work as an IT engineer, also have some part time activities. I want to change my occupation, since the work I do is really dull and boring (same office every day, same people in the office, boring activities which I know by heart, no challence, etc). I finally decided that I want to be a (Airbus A320) pilot. Been curious about A320 for several past years, exploring it as amateur and somehow thought it would be ncie to do that for living.

The good news is that I have saved the required amount of money for the tranings.
Bad news is that I'm 10-12 years late to join this sphere :(

I have already had a quick conversation with a representative from BAA. I was informed about Wizz Air Cadet programme, the price of the studies (approx. 62k Euro, some amount is sponsored by Wizz, although no Type Rating in this price, as far as I understand). I was informed that in order for me to join the school, the following must be passed/obtained:
1) Profile XT test;
2) English language written test;
3) Compass test;
4) Interview with BAA;
5) Class 1 medical certificate.

Since during last 7-8 years I didn't have any interviews/tests/etc, this makes me a bit embarrased. I know that Profile XT test will be carried out in native language and is just a personality test, so shouldn't be difficult. I also believe my English is good enough so English test should go fine too.
I have checked my health recently (I told the doctors I will be needing Class 1) - almost everything is fine but I need a surgery for nasal septum... Not a problem, I will do that in case I pass the selection process.
However.. Compass test and the Interview part makes me worried a bit.

I have signed up at PilotAptitudeTest.com website and tried to solve maths and physics tests there for a few days. After multiple solving, I noticed that the questions start to repeat and I know the answers by heart :)

My goals (long term):
-Obtain CPL
-Start working at Wizz Air (or maybe there are better companies?) and fly as much hours as possible during first few years to gain experience and overtake the "10-12 years beeing too late in this sphere".

PS: I have had a 1 hour A320 similator session at BAA with an instructor. I think I did fine having in mind that I had no experience and it was the first time being behind the cockpit.

Questions:
-Has anyone attended BAA? How's the school? How's the staff? What are pros and cons of this school?
-Could someone please tell me more about the Compass test at BAA? What sources are the best to use to prepare for it, what to expect during the test? What is the percentage of passed/failed people, etc? Can I use paper and pen during the test? (Primary for math calculations) How long does the test last?
-Any hints, tips, tricks or experiences about the interview at BAA?
-Finally, is my decision on all the above correct? Or am I far away from reality?

Sorry for longish first post and thanks for your answers! :)

Labukas Hid3,

I have been in BAA in 2011-2013. I cannot say that much about the present BAA.
BUT the best way to prepare for Compass is with this software https://www.skytest.de/SkyTest-Train...eenings-31.htm. Furthermore maybe a tip is to find in Lithuania a company which prepares you for HR Interviews. Usually such Interviews in almost every field are pretty much the same. Why you and not those other guys. Why only now and not when you were younger. What are your weaknesses etc.

In Compass there is basic Technical stuff. Not much of rocket science. I am not an ACE, but I passed the Compass without any practice. But for such an Cadet program you better be prepared. You only get one chance. If you are prepared, you feel a lot more confident and have bigger chance to pass.

Sekmes ;) .

Pagarbiai,

P40

hid3 19th Aug 2018 15:18

Hi!

Thanks for the reply. I've re-read this entire thread (and some more) but still have the questions, lol :)
I know some "answers" to those common questions, however, not sure how "currect" they are.

This week will try to look for someone who may prepare for a HR interview. Guess that'd be useful in the rest of life too.

Thank you!

Flion 20th Aug 2018 10:21

To me BAA seem a bit like a scam. I sent an inquiry and since then I've contacted a couple of times from representative about my decision. I think a school working in optimum capacity would not contact a single potential candidate numerous times, kinda pushing for an interview. What are your opinions?

hid3 20th Aug 2018 14:17

Strange enough, I had a live conversation with them, they sent me one email with the all the details (about the academy, numbers, etc) but never chased me asking if I got interested or not, if had any further queries, etc. Maybe They didn't like me at the beginning? :D

I'd like to ask some questions those, who have studied in Wizz Air Cadett programe and now are emplyed:
1) What is the internal atmopshere there at Wizz Air?
2) What is the work schedule? How many days you work, how many rest at home?
3) After the contract period expires (and let's assume you get promoted to Captain), is it a good place to stay work further there or are there better places/choices around?
4) What country/city do you live and what country/city you mostly reside? I mean, do current pilots at Wizz work more closer to their home or totally away?

Thank you!

P40Warhawk 20th Aug 2018 16:37


Originally Posted by Flion (Post 10228705)
To me BAA seem a bit like a scam. I sent an inquiry and since then I've contacted a couple of times from representative about my decision. I think a school working in optimum capacity would not contact a single potential candidate numerous times, kinda pushing for an interview. What are your opinions?

The School aint a scam. I paid for my training. They gave me the training. I graduated, and thats it. I got what I paid for.

A scam would be more like paying money and then your money is gone and you dont get anything back for your money.

FlyNorth24 12th Sep 2018 07:51

With the BAA you can get an EASA licence for half the price in comparison to some other better schools. It is definitely not the best aviation academy, we all know that, but for 60+k eur you can get an OK training. If you get lucky, you can get very good instructors, but chances are that some of the theory instructors will be pretty bad, which doesn't matter too much since we all do the question banks mostly. The VFR flight training, you really need to get lucky there, some of the instructors are very bad, no one knows why they are here. Probably it is difficult to find flight instructors who want to work in Lithuania. IFR instructors are better, I have to admit.

XPDR7700 12th Sep 2018 10:34

Can anyone on the course for the cadet programme at small planet airlines with BAA comment on the guarantee of the job after? Thank you.

PID 13th Sep 2018 13:58


Originally Posted by hid3 (Post 10228921)
Strange enough, I had a live conversation with them, they sent me one email with the all the details (about the academy, numbers, etc) but never chased me asking if I got interested or not, if had any further queries, etc. Maybe They didn't like me at the beginning? :D

I'd like to ask some questions those, who have studied in Wizz Air Cadett programe and now are emplyed:
1) What is the internal atmopshere there at Wizz Air?
2) What is the work schedule? How many days you work, how many rest at home?
3) After the contract period expires (and let's assume you get promoted to Captain), is it a good place to stay work further there or are there better places/choices around?
4) What country/city do you live and what country/city you mostly reside? I mean, do current pilots at Wizz work more closer to their home or totally away?

Thank you!

Hello !

I been reading this thread and came across your recent messages. I must say, I get the impression that you are a bit reluctant to apply and the people at BAA can see these signs a mile away hence perhaps they didn't chase you. While it is normal to have these questions in mind, none can never be fully answered until you are in the industry. I totally understand that it is your money going onto a new chapter of your life and before you take the step you want a 100% reassurance and satisfaction. But believe me when I say that aviation doesn't work that way. Let me give you a few examples to help you illustrate the reality of aviation:

1. Let's say an airline pilot from Wizz Air responded back to your questions and sounded promising. Whats to say that you will have the same experience? Maybe that pilot is on a base that keeps him happy, hence the positive acknowledgment of the airline. But you could also get another pilot who is not happy because he's not on the base he prefers, etc.

2. So after your research and speaking with numerous pilots, you concluded that it's worth the 'risk'. But you find out that the scheme does not guarantee the placement. You find that 80% of graduates get the placement. What will you do? Not apply? Perhaps the 20% didn't pass their ATPL's or generally didn't meet with training standards or simply gave up.

3. But you take the risk and decide to apply. But now there's another problem, what if after you graduate in 2 years time, the economy is not great? You do your research and find that; problems are happening between the EU and UK, the oil can go up, another economic bubble, etc, you hear on the news. After all it is your hard saved money going into a blind faith of a good job at the end of the tunnel.

So, conclusion, you are 31 years old with probably no aviation background, Some pilots say yes, some say no to the airline, not every cadet gets the airline job and the economy is unpredictable.
Should you apply?

Option 1 - No. It's too risky, not worth the headache and insecurity, there isn't much information and help out there, too expensive, I might not even fly the A320, I might not even be based where I want, not for me.
Option 2 - Yes, because it's my passion, my dream. But I am also realistic to know the challenges and insecurities ahead of me. I will try with Wizz Air, if in the end I don't get that specific airline FO seat, I have a frozen ATPL that enables me to apply for other airlines (such as Small planet etc).

Please don't take this as a negative response. My point on this detailed response is to make you realise the aviation industry is very different than the 'regular job'. While it is very important to be realistic, it is even more important to have a genuine passion for aviation to give you the drive to apply and see where it leads too.

Sorry if this doesn't answer a single question. But I do hope it helps you decide whether you should go ahead and apply for it or not.

Peace!

PID 13th Sep 2018 14:12


Originally Posted by XPDR7700 (Post 10247286)
Can anyone on the course for the cadet programme at small planet airlines with BAA comment on the guarantee of the job after? Thank you.

No Airline will ever guarantee you a job as an ab initio cadet. If they do, they will most certainly have a star at the end of the guarantee (guarantee*).

3 reasons:

1 - Your training standards - Passing the aptitude test and the airline interview is just the beginning. Throughout the training you must keep your training to the airline standards. You may fail an ATPL exam? Or your overall pass might be 80% but the airline wants you to have at at least 85% (these are examples). The airline naturally mentors and monitors their 'future' pilots and assess their performance.
2 - Unpredictable airline economy - I'm sure you heard plenty of times an airline cancelling their orders or simply going bust because of the economy. This can happen today or when you graduate, so the brand new plane that the airline hoped to put you is not available now. Or the airline needs to cut costs and can't afford new pilots.
3 - It's not coming out of their pockets - This is my observation now. But I noticed that when an airline is willing to pay for your training and/or type rating, they are more likely to reassure you because, well, it's coming from their pockets so they feel more pressure to ensure you succeed.

I hope this helps! I suggest you apply for it. If worse case happens, you have an ATPL out of it.

Peace!

Nurse2Pilot 13th Sep 2018 14:13

Excellent post PID but I think you are missing the point of his questions. It is a search for information, wanting a look into the current and possible future as a pilot in this specific airline. Anyone who thinks any answer should cover every possibility (not happy with base, change in economic climate, etc.) is misguided. I think anyone who asks a lot of questions prior to embarking upon a very important and expensive journey should be applauded; decisions like these should be entered knowing as much information as possible, don't you agree?

Everything is risky and I suspect aviation would be even more so than other possible jobs, but it is best to enter knowing the risks than be blindsided by not looking before you jump. Peace!

Nurse2Pilot 13th Sep 2018 14:16


Originally Posted by PID (Post 10248359)
If worse case happens, you have an ATPL out of it.

The worst case is you have a license but no job and a sizeable debt to pay. This isn't a £50 punt that anyone can afford and walk away from if it doesn't suit them....

PID 13th Sep 2018 14:33


Originally Posted by Nurse2Pilot (Post 10248360)
Excellent post PID but I think you are missing the point of his questions. It is a search for information, wanting a look into the current and possible future as a pilot in this specific airline. Anyone who thinks any answer should cover every possibility (not happy with base, change in economic climate, etc.) is misguided. I think anyone who asks a lot of questions prior to embarking upon a very important and expensive journey should be applauded; decisions like these should be entered knowing as much information as possible, don't you agree?

Everything is risky and I suspect aviation would be even more so than other possible jobs, but it is best to enter knowing the risks than be blindsided by not looking before you jump. Peace!

I agree. I certainly done my homework before embarking on this journey. But I also found myself asking more and more questions. Spending more time being concerned while witnessing my friends applying and now happily flying. I believe there is a balance. I'm not eliminating the need to ask questions and learn about the airline you are about to apply. I am, however, enforcing the fact that some questions are purely subjective to the individual experience and that you will see yourself asking more and creating doubt/uncertainty.

Perhaps in 2 years time we can come back to this forum and speak to who took initiatives and now have airline jobs, and to who are still searching for answers.

Peace!

Nurse2Pilot 13th Sep 2018 18:05

And as you have said, things may have changed and in two years, someone may have a very expensive qualification with no related employment with which to pay it back!

I cannot speak for the others but personally, I like these questions as it gives insight into the industry that I would dare say none of the general public know about. Good things (I'm based near home! Yay!!) and bad things (stupid rostering issues!!) are all realities in this business that people who are too busy choosing schools and finding the finances may not consider. I do understand that at some point, a decision has to be made and as with everything in life, nothing is certain, but still, it's nice to be broadening one's horizons while still on the ground.

hid3 14th Sep 2018 08:39

Hello gentlemen,

quite an interesting discussion has started. However, I think you misunderstood my questions.
I just asked about the internal atmosphere inside the company (e.g. if there was a huge personnel migration, either joining the company or massively leaving it) and about the working schedule and place.

I don't think these questions are too subjective and everyone has it own opinion - no, I think these are general things. E.g. working schedule - are you working in your home city/country or not? Do you work 5 days and have 3 days of rest or you do work say 12 days and have 7 days rest, etc, etc?
Are there any short or long term timetable made for pilots when to work, etc? (basically am I able to plan my personal life at least a bit in advance or is it all spontanic..)


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