That is completely pointless as the FAA does NOT concern itself with visa's.
Contact the school's administrator.
Laws and rules may have recently changed.

* I don't think you need a visa but check with the school *

Conflicting information
 

As per the title, I have received some conflicting information which I would like to clear up.

In a nutshell, an F1 visa pertains to an academic course which allows OPT and the M1 is for vocational courses (I've never seen any mentioning of work).

After coming across this website (clearly official and therefore reputable) on point B (under benefits) it is mentioned that work is indeed possible.

M1 Visa - Easily Apply Online - Study in Vocational Institutions in the US

:ugh:

How a website looks does not make it reputable and yes they condense about 25 pages of visa law into one short paragraph.

True, however you may only work after gaining approval and in your field of study. You may do so for one month for every 3 months you have studied.
But you still need to apply for approval.
And I really don't see what work you are going to do in 2 months after a 6 month 0- CPL course.
Washing airplanes at the school maybe? :}

Keep in mind that an M1 is not a aviation specific visa. Never has been and never will.
This means that under M1 visa law there are a lot of specifics that do not apply to aviation in any shape or form.
Internship, study field related work etc etc etc.
This is one of the reasons as to why this whole flight training on a visa is so convaluted.

Well, this is the first time I've come across any work being possible on an M1 after extensive research over the last 6 months! Perhaps I was confusing the issue by associating the M1 visa predominantly with flight training. Nevertheless, thanks for clearing that up.

I am currently enrolling at one of the US flight school in the U.S which is also FAA recognized and i am a foreign student. I have yet still to receive the I-20 Form which is more than a week now, since i submitted the cost of estimate to comply. By the way, i would like to ask, if its practical to register all flying courses(CPL,IR,Multi) on TSA all at once? And also, though i will pay for the fingerprints thru them, since they are also a fingerprint collector. the fingerprint will take place there, and im confused if that processed is the same as during your visa processed. Plus, it probably will take a few days to approved my fingerprints and on what i read, you can initial start your training and then once your fingerprint have been approved, you can commence your flight training.

You build your profile (lots of personal details, address history, ID details blah blah) and then you submit the 'training request' online, obviously for initial most likely first. Fingerprinting, as long as you keep your profile/name/doesnt get lost in transit before digitised, is 'good for life' for this TSA thing.

Speed of processing depends on where you do it. YOu can do it in few places outside USA, but that's at premium cost. If done at local sheriff's/police&court facility, it's normally within day or two, as long as you got your online side of TSA done. It is bit of question of 'piece of string' length to give specifics.

Regarding starting flying before the permission, well, I'm sure not all adhered to it. OTOH, 'demo'/trial lesson x10 is perfectly legal, as it's not training course per se. You can also hit the self-study, get over jetlag, do bit of socialising etc. If you're on whole zero to hero course, day here or there won't matter much.

Stop worrying about 'week and not in hand yet' I-20. You are aware admin can take day or two, then snail mail from USA to wherever you are. What you can do, is register on TSA website and have all your details there ready, so you have fingeprints done and request filed at earliest opportunity.

If you have reviewed the AFSP website on how to register with the TSA, you may have noticed the comment:
Final Approval Granted: The Candidate has been granted final approval for the training request.
Training must commence within 180 days of approval and finish within 365 days of approval.

So unless you are confident that you will start and complete each course within the stipulated window, you should apply for each course as and when you expect to start.

Not true.

The email from the TSA states :

then when you get clearance it will say :

Then once they have the results of your background check it will say :

In summary no flying until they have received your fingerprints - that doesn't mean upon completion that means once the TSA receives them - normally a day or two later.

Hi fellows,

I just wanted to ask something related to the M1 type of Visa.

Last year I visited the US for a short-term course and straight after that I left the US. On the passport page where my VISA was issued it says expiration date 10/2017.

This year in fact very soon I am planning to go back to US to do the Flight Instructor Course.

How the paperwork process will look like this time considering the above?
Do I have to do a new application for the institution i am planning to go?

Any help is appreciated.

Thank you !!

The visa issuance is sponsored by the company to whom you are visiting. Once you leave that company (Flight School in your case) the visa is then null and void and when you want to return to the US to a different flight school, you will need to start the visa process again.
Also - the visa expiry date doesn't mean anything - it is the CBP Officer at the port of entry who will determine how long you can stay.
The visa itself simply gets you onto a plane to the US - not how long you can stay.

This is all documented on the USCIS website if you go look.

Not entirely true.

SEVIS provide guidance on this and state the only thing required is a new SEVIS fee if the visa is still valid : Travel | ICE

Changing Schools, in the USA, have M1 visa, ... can change to part 61 through ESTA ?
 

Hi, I have had a number of issues to do with quality at the school I am at here in California.

I am about to leave and transfer out my i20. Friends here in SD who are pilots and members of a local flying club have suggested I use the ESTA program to reenter the USA and study part time with them as a part of my vacation. The planes are a lot cheaper than the schools, the instructors friends.

ESTA is a visa waiver program. I have applied and been accepted. I am studying towards my PPL with an goal of SEL IR commercial. I would finish my PPL part 61, leave the country and then return to do IR and SEL commercial under a SEVIS school.

I am very torn as to whether to go to another part 141 school to finish my PPL, whereby the migration legalities are very clear, (but frankly I feel burned by recent part 141 experience), or whether to go the part 61 route part time. (part time is less than 18 hours per week). I understand that I have to pay for a TSA change of venue. I will be training on the same craft that I named in my initial TSA application.

Looking forward to hearing from anyone who has tried this, or looked into it and decided against.

It says pretty clearly on the US department of state website you cannot study on the visa waiver programme :
Visa Waiver Program

This is backed up by 8 CFR 214.2(b)(7)

It doesn't matter it's part time - it's normally clearly prohibited if you are studying for credit as they call it.

BigGrecian.
I believe that if you are sponsored by School A, leave and then wish to return to School B, that you need to get the Visa transferred (assuming that it is still in currency) to the new School and if you were in good standing with the previous School A..
I do not believe that you can just walk into School B - as they are not your sponsor according to the Visa in the passport.
The Sponsor is basically responsible for your time in the US.
That was the point I was making.

Options
 

I am in the following situation.

1. I have an FAA PPL based on my EASA-PPL.
2. I have done training in the USA before and my TSA account has my fingerprints preregisters.
3. I have been to, and rented from, a particular flight school in the USA several times before.

I want to go and do my FAA IR knowledge test (+ maybe a couple of hours training) at a school that is not SEVIS registered. They dont seem willing to get SEVIS registered for whatever reason and have told me that I don't need a VISA.

The main purpose of my trip is hour building for currency rather than training.

I find that nobody seems to know the law and I'm considering asking a lawyer to give me an opinion.

What FAA certificate do you have that required you to submit a TSA request in the past (excluding a FAA 61.75 based on certificate)?

The school is not SEVIS approved because they have elected to not go and get Part 141 status which costs many $$. As a result they cannot sponsor a foreign student for a M1 visa and therefore will tell you a story that you don't need a visa in order to get your business - which is clearly incorrect as you say you are doing flight training towards a FAA IR attached to your 'based on' certificate.

You will also need to submit a TSA application for the IR training and meet the training requirements detailed in FAR 61.
Where are you planning to do your IR Flight Test when the time comes?

At the end of the day, you are responsible for your visa status not the Flight School regardless of what they might say to you.

Hey Guys!

I'm new here and I've spent the last hour reading the thread. Very informativ, thanks! But concerning my case it didn't help much yet.

I've been to Florida in Jan/Feb this year with a M1-Visa for getting my PPL. I passed the written test and the oral exam but couldn't go for the check ride because it was to late that day and next day I had to leave the country :ugh:. I talked to the school's CEO, who told me he is about to state my training as finished (for visa purpose / immigration) since the check ride itself is not supposed to be part of flight training. For re-entry the United States I would just have to apply for VWP/ESTA like most European tourists.

Which I did six weeks later then... but bad luck again, the whole week nothing but IFR weather, I couldn't fly once (Sunshine State ;)) and left the U.S. again.

Now I'm done with Florida, I'm currently searching for a flight school in Arizona. My medical is valid until October 31 so I have to hurry up... which brings me to the questions: M1 again or ESTA again? Am I even able to get the same visa for the same course twice? What do you think?

Remember:

• The M1 in my passport isn't valid anymore (as the immigration officer at the second entry has confirmed)
• I already have all requirement for the exam, I just need a CFI to sign me up, I don't need to have any flight training (but of course I will, I haven't flew myself ever since)
• I'll need less than 18 hours obviously (after reading the thread maybe a myth anyway).

Any help is appreciated, thanks :ok:

You won't find a CFI who will just sign you off to a checkride without providing any training, its his ticket.

Training will be training towards a credit = M1 required.

True, a CFI is required to give you at least 3 hours of training before he/she is authorized to sign you off.
Training is training I'm afraid and everybody here understands it's frustrating but you lack of progress or weather issues are not Immigration's concern.
Get another visa.

I'd actually recommend you finish your training using a different airplane then you used initially, this way you get a little more out of the experience.

Does anyone know if one can obtain an FAA Commercial Single Engine addon followed by a CFI rating on a B1 visa ?

No you can not.

USA regs
 

:mad: Mine Gott, you are not even supposed to even fly a light aircraft in the US without at least a student (M1 for many courses) visa AND TSA approval. Mine a valid for 5 years, but I also have R stamped on the visa (A do what you like).
Mind you, I've flown all sorts in the US and no one even asked me for my passport, but do at least try and get the TSA approval, as you can run into real trouble trying to use a larger airport, an international one in particular.
The pain with an initial TSA approval is that manual finger prints are required. After that it's no big deal and just an online job. Any student visa requires an official interview at an embassy or consular office.

The FAA might check your immigration and TSA status when issuing a new rating or license, as will the Police if you bend a hire car.

You need a school or company sponsor to get a student (Or work) visa, or a TSA approval and it will take time if you have an interesting passport or family background.

NEVER PAY ANY SO CALLED VISA OR TSA GROUP AN UP FRONT FEE, as there are some real cool scam companies for work permits in particular. Only pay the correct online embassy or TSA web site fees (Plus the fingerprint lady in cash, which should be around 100 usd).

IF A COMPANY OFFERS YOU A JOB, LET THEM PAY FOR THE VISA, if they ask for anything up front, like a type rating deposit, the job does not exist even if the company does.

A LOT OF FAR EASTERN OFFICIALS LOST THEIR SHIRTS LAST NIGHT AND THEY WILL TURN TO A WHOLE BUNCH OF SCAM GAMES, including false airline jobs, to make money. Because those fraudsters are already active, their offers will be difficult to spot, so always ask for one months pay and a free return ticket if you already have a license. :=:mad:

No, initial CPL requires a visa.
You would have known that if you'd read just a couple of pages....:hmm:

finishing up FAA PPL with ground school online, entering US with B1/B2
 

Hello guys,
I am new here and I know this can be silly questions but I have applied for a PPL course in Florida. they told me that I can finish the PPL with them for 2-3 weeks (because the ground school will be online) and I am able to get there with my B1/B2 visa, which mean, I will be taking the knowledge test and some flights training when I get there. So is it correct to go with my B1/B2 visa? my TSA clearance is approved. (as they stated on the website that the TSA clearance would be denied if I didn't have appropriate visa.) and I have my medical certificate ready.

I am worried cause I have been reading a lot of posts on the website and everyone is confusing between the waiver/M1/B1 and B2.
So I just would like to clarify because I am leaving in few days to finish up my PPL. I don't know If I actually needed to M1 which some schools offer that but I need months to complete the course with those schools, which I don't have time to do so. I will be doing it on my one month vacation along with some visitings. Thats why I decided to do this option with ground school online because I can't take months off work.

....and as one of my colleges (we are cabin crews), she had done her PPL in Florida as well. but she didn't tell the immigration the whole story when she passed through the immigration and she just told them she was going to visit friends. I don't think it was a wise idea to do so cause you could screw your passport pretty much if they found out later and when she needed to renew the visa or some sort of things?

I have checked with the flight school. and they said I can tell them that I am there for some flying lessons? and that's what I am going to tell them so. But it would be horrible if I got sent back, It is not a short flight, nearly 20hours from my base.

I would like to advice please!
thank you everyone in advance!!
(I really should read more comments and reviews about this more carefully before I applied.)

No confusion, any pilot training undertaken requires an M1 visa. It's not difficult to get, the school must send you an I-20 which you take to the Embassy.

The immigration officer will need to stamp that, and see a SEVIS receipt once you land in the US. The school should know this.

I am not an expert on the whole U.S. visa process, but I do have a friend who overseas the visa office at a U.S. consulate in Asia and I do have another acquaintance who was a CBP officer.
So here is what I do know - never, never NEVER(!!!!) mislead them about what your intentions are when coming to the United States. It is far better to take the appropriate steps and get the visa stuff done the right way the first time. The CBP officers will have access to all of the information you provided when you applied for your visa at the embassy/consulate, as well as notes and other information entered by the officer who processed your visa application.
So if you lie, or mislead them, they can find out. And if they do you will most likely be refused entry and barred from entering the United States for at least five years or longer. Most likely it will be longer - I know of people who made honest and small mistakes who ended up being barred for life. For example there was a woman who was from a visa waiver country (allowed 90 day visits to the U.S. without a visa) and was married to a United States citizen. She entered the United States with the mistaken impression that being from a VW country that she could enter and then apply for residency to be with her U.S. citizen husband. Long story short five years down the road her and her husband are still fighting to try and have her allowed entrance back into the United States after being barred for life.

Anyway I am not trying to scare you about the process. Rather trying to emphasise that the trouble to do it correctly in the first place pales in comparison to the trouble you will face trying to correct doing it the wrong way.

Yes, you can.

The school cannot legally issue an I-20 to give you an M1 unless you are enrolled in a course of 18hrs a week or more. That piece of advice came from a TSA inspection at a flying school run by a friend. In reality the abuse of this particular item is actually the opposite to what you are trying to do, ie people apply for an M1 and then work/jump ship.

Yes, you should be honest at the point of entry. Depending on where you fly into , your B1/B2 will allow you to go via one of the automated terminals that print an entry slip that you hand in to the customs guy on the way out.

In reality, having a visa is a good step and definiitely one better than entering under ESTA. A B1/B2 is a respectable visa for short term entry. I have used it myself for just what you describe, with honesty. If you are doing adhoc flight training, have done your TSA, have a visa and already have an airport ID if you are working as cabin crew it is extremely unlikely that you will have any issues. A lot of people will tell you otherwise, but have never done it either.

>No confusion, any pilot training undertaken requires an M1 visa

... is confused. No pilot training requires a visa. People require visas. Pilot training below 12500lbs MTOW requires TSA clearance for three well defined circumstances.

Pilot training for the initial issue of a private ( or cpl if first stand alone faa licence) , multi or instrument rating requires Cat 3 TSA.

You can quite happily add a float or rotary rating to a land certificate for example without TSA.

TSA is not specific about visas, but expects you to be legal/resepctable about your entry.

TSA have in the past asked me to prove that I was legally in the USA when I had to apply for a permission whilst inside the USA, I sent them a copy of my B1/B2 which worked just fine.

Hope that helps

No it doesn't help.

We have a mega thread stickied for that reason.

http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...hools-usa.html

Advise from a friend, I was told this, I was told that doesn't hack it.

Only Part 141 SEVIS approved schools can provide flight training to Foreign nationals that do not hold a Green card.

You're mixing up two things:
Online training is to pass the Written Test, it is NOT Ground school required for your Private Pilot Training course.
No matter how much or how little training you do...any training for the (original) issuance of a Pilot certificate ...requires a visa.
Because you're not a US Citizen.
Period.

The school knows that they are NOT telling you the truth and they are asking YOU to lie to an Immigration Officer as you are NOT going for some flying lessons you are going to train, pass a check ride and be issued a pilot certificate.

YOU NEED A VISA

Centerline Thrust
 

If a foreigner already holds a FAA commercial certificate with a centerline restriction, and they want to remove it, do they need to get a Visa for flight training?

I'm going to take a stab at this and say NO...as there is no increase in skill level considering the pilot in question already holds a CPL ME (centerline restricted)

Hi there.
I need an advise as to which type of visa i need to apply for my ATP CTP.The school told me that they don't provide I-20 for the ATP CTP so is the B1/B2 visa ok to apply with a letter proving i'm going for the course?
thanks for the input

As per, the entire thread:rolleyes:, you need to find a sevis approved school that can issue you an I-20 and either a M/F visa.

sinlge engine add on
 

sorry if this question has already answered .


i hold a FAA commercial multi engine
and i want to add my single engine rating.


can i join usa with tourist visa for this purpose?

Hi there,


Is it normal that a flight school asks me $500 to issue the i20 ?


Thank you guys

Yes it is.. specially the initial ones if first time with them.

thanks for your prompt reply spaflyer

I've been in touch with a flight school that do not issue I20 form, and the director told me that there is no problem, I just need to scan him my passport and visitor visa.
I will risk to go to jail, isn't it?

Do anyone has a knowledge that Can I fly with the A1 visa(which is diplomatic visa)or not?I contacted TSA,FAA and most of pilot schools no one has clear information about that

Indeed, that practice is illegal and you could get into serious trouble with US Customs, worst you end up in jail. Happened to an Egypcian guy at Florida Flyers in FL, just for staying too long or sth similar; and this school does issue I-20 ! Unthinkable to not get it before going to the US.

Hi flyers
If any of u can clarify me i have a B1/B2 visa and was getting ready to come to the US for th ATP CTP isn't that possible?