Off to University for 3 years. Should I get my PPL?
 

Hey I will try and keep this short.

I am going to turn 21 years old in May and I have offers to study Mechanical Engineering at Queens Belfast University for 3 years, However i've recently been interested again in pursuing a career in commerical flying instead of an engineering position.

I've always been interested in flying since 9 and I have a small bit of RAF air cadet experience in a Grob G115 tutor when I was 15. Thoroughly enjoyed it.

I was completely put off from flying during GCSE's basically from the shear amounts of money it costs to train.

But i figure if I'm going to be doing something as a career it might as well be something I very much enjoy and will probably be willing to pay for it.

That being said, Ive searched and read and searched and read constantly for the last few days, I am aware of the current economic climate and there are very few if any positions for pilots and that recruitment won't be for a few more years.

So I decided that I will do this 3 year degree and also attend the gliding club in uni to beef up my flying then move into pilot training.

I haven't decided on Modular or Integrated, I could pull my hair out reading through all the threads on it but my main question is:

Should I do my PPL locally whilst at University. There is a local flying club that I could do my PPL at for around £6k which seems the norm.

Or Plan B:

Fork out loads of cash for "Integrated training purely because my friend says I would be more likely to get a job over a modular candidate"

*I don't buy this completely but I take what he's said on board*

Thanks. Any other feedback would be appreciated.

Adam02 as you have already discovered LOADS of threads on this.

However, IMHO you should go off to Queens (excellent Uni) and gain your degree in ME. A good degree always opens doors and allows you to keep options open. Queens might even have access to a UAS. Even if they don't you can get your PPL at standard cost & minimum risk.

Once you have your degree and some work experience you shall still only be mid 20s, plenty of time to start your aviation career if you wish and at much less risk as you now have a fall-back position if the aviation market turns sour.

Going off on Plan B in the current market is HIGH RISK.
You do not want to be a 22 year old with no degree, no quality work experience, at least £70k in debt and no flying job either.

To anybody thinking of a career as a commercial pilot I strongly urge you to have a back-up plan.

I have never understood the degree-way. I am now doing my final year in upper secondary and I have excellent grades. That means that I can chooze between many universities and proffesions in the future. But why do the degree now? If one becomes a pilot and then something happens and he has to quit, he could allways go to university at that stage right?

Fabbe, I wish you all the best in your future endeavours, but I cannot thank you enough for all you have revealed to me in one post about the education system that I have long suspected but have hitherto been unable to confirm.

Godspeed my friend!:ok:

@ fabbe 92

But presumably not English Language as a profession I think ? (my bold - or b brackets at least )

Awww, Alpine, I did it so much more nicerley!

Also, a comma between "stage" & "right" would help to place an appropriate emphasis on the flow of speech.

Thanks for the replies.

With regards to Queens, they have a gliding club:

Homepage

Would it be advantageous to have decent gliding experience as far as seeking employment with an airline is concerned?

And from the aerospace department (same building as mechanical) they say that students have the option to undergo flight training. Pretty vague but I'l have to find out a bit more on that.

But yes as it stands the plan is to get the M.E degree, get some uni gliding in and get my PPL locally:

PPL Training

then go into a modular course full time with the confidence and safety net of my degree.

I've yet to decide on an FTO but that's why I'm here.

The reading continues.

Yes I´m not perfect in english since it isn´t my native language. Would like to see how good you guys are in other languages, besides english.

My apologies Fabbe.

It didn't occur to me that you are not a native English-speaker as your English is very good and the errors are, in fact, exactly what I see from many posters here who are English mother-tongue.

Once again, mea culpa.

Yes but it would be difficult.

Let's say pilot X is made redundant and loses his or her job after ten years flying for an airline. At this time, X has a family and a mortgage.

X needs to get another job straight away, not spend three years at university getting the qualification required. In addition, X finds it harder to study with family commitments and an ageing brain.

Therefore, I would recommend doing the degree now, while you're young and know everything rather than later.

Cheers

Whirls

Don´t worry, then I do have the tendency to be a bit sloppy when I write in forums, skipping commas and misspelling;) I guess I´m lazy.

Are their any good degrees in aviation that one could do. Because if pilots get reduntant, that means the holy industry is in a bad shape.

I am considering A degree or the bachelor in Aviation Management (London Met) or what about being a flight technician/engineer?

Cheers!

If a pilot is made redundant because the aviation industry is in dire straits, then I'm not sure an Aviation Management Degree is any use at all. Aviation degrees may only be of any use if a pilot his or her licence for medical reasons.

Much better getting a degree relating to an entirely different industry. I'd recommend an insolvency qualification. :}

Cheers

Whirls

Economics and philosophy are good numbers - learn about why we are in our current position and then know how to manipulate human nature to your advantage.

New question

I know it's preferable to do all of your CPL/fATPL training with one FTO from an employer's point of view.

And from what I gather they won't mind at all if you do your PPL locally:

But what about hours building? Would it be fine to go somewhere different for hours building?

Thanks.

I completed my PPL while at University, it was great fun I would highly recommend it.

Fabbe,
Je regrette, je vous en prie. je croyais que vous etiez Anglais. ;)

Do the degree, go gliding, have fun. Maybe even get a PPL AFTER you have graduated. Once you are qualified for something other than flying and are gainfully employed, look to see if there is a REAL shortage of low houred pilots. If you are still gliding then, I'll guarantee that there'll be a few airline pilots at the club, so you'll get an inside line. If there is a shortage (which I doubt), only then think about a career change, but certainly not before. Taking this line means that you'll have at least one bankable profession and a certainly a good looking CV for an airline. Starting along the airline route now will mean debt, unemployment and poor employability, no fallback position, rubbish CV, limited life experience and all in all, a pretty miserable life.

PM

hi adam,
you're at exactly the same point i was when i was deciding between university and pursuing career straight from high school
well, at that point i talked to a commercial pilot and he said that even though there was shortage of pilots 4 years ago, i should get my degree and i could pursue my career after i get a degree, i took this advice and now i'm in last semester with what i think great career opportunities, i'm also studying ME (never to many of those :)) and i did my PPL 1 year ago, localy of course
well, my point is, i'm happy i went to university because now there isn't as big shortage of pilots as it was and i will always have something to fall back on if my career doesn't go as planned

so, go to university and than you can still be pilot or whatever you will choose to be after university

well, that's just my 2 cents :)

But wich degree? I have absoulutley no idea wich degree I want to get. It´s seems a bit strange for me to go to university for 3 years and study economics or engineering when i have absolutley no interest or motivation for it. I can only think of careers withina aviation and if I have to stop, I will sit down and make a decision that day. But choosing a degree now feels strange to me because I don´t have any interest or motivation for the degrees out there.

Should we just run off to the uni and get the first/best degree available? Sounds stupid to me.

I have a friend who has a degree in Music and is now working in the Civil Service advising on Child Policy.

I have a further friend who has a degree in Italian who makes shed loads in Investment banking.

I have another who's degree is in something related to performing arts who works within a University marketing team.

Besides perhaps academia/engineering it is really a myth that a specific degree is necessary for many roles. The degree just gets you the interview in the first place.

Do something you are good at and something you enjoy (and is not too obscure).

I guess I´m fairly good in many things and can do well in many degrees but one thing that I am god at and the only thing that I truly enjoy, is aviation.

One thing I can think off is that I am very interested in aviation safety, phsycology and the knowlege around safety, cathastrophies and how human factors in emergencies etc. Are their any degrees in this, more related to the transport industry, naval and aviation?

Hey adam02 i was in the same situation. I'm just about to finish my second year of an accountancy degree (hopefully). I looked into a career in aviation when i was 20 but was put off by this very fickle industry. I thought I would bide my time and try to achieve a good degree. In my first year i started training for my PPL and logged 18 hours. The student loans come in very handy! All i will say is juggling the two can be hard. I haven't done any flying during term time because the amount of work and effort required for uni is more important. Luckily my last exam is on the 19th of this month and fingers crossed if the weather is good i can complete my flying hours during the summer. My next problem is trying to study for uni and the PPL exams. Personally i cannot do the two things at once. Your academic ability maybe a lot better than mine!

All the best

Laurence

Did I just get thread hijacked by the god of aviation? :confused:

But seriously you shouldn't ask other people what degree you should do. You say the only thing you truly enjoy is aviation, that would lead anyone to believe that you would find any aviation related degree interesting and of value. Just do some personal research.

How do you know your fairly good at most things? You're 18, you've done nothing to prove you are good at anything. You say you are good at aviation, again how do you know? There is a huge difference between having an interest and being good at something.

I think I´m good in aviation since I have around 55 flight hours and I had no problems with the PPL knowledge. I know it´s going to get harder with ATPL/IR etc but I found it easy to understand these subjects. Allso maths, physics etc. I´m not saying that I am good at everything, I am saying that I think I can perform like an average person in normal degree-courses. Better in some, than others.

Anyway, I´ve been searching around a bit for degrees in the area of aviation safety and the area wich I explained above, but I couldn´t find anything. Any ideas?

55 hours of flying is nothing, barely above the minimum hours to pass, the PPL knowledge is basic you don't do multiple choice questions at decent Universities.

When you've got years of experience and loads of hours then I'll listen to your self evaluation.

In all fairness, Fabbe could well have the equivalent of high grade A Levels in some subjects and therefore it would not be unreasonable to say that he would be quite good in those subjects.

Fabbe, then do a degree in Maths or Physics - aviation degrees are no use to man nor beast in any other industry. You need to hedge your bets.

Cheers

Whirls

hmm, okey I think you have missunderstod me. I am not saying that I can fly the 747 or be an astronaout. I am saying that if I have good grades in the A-levels, have no difficulty with PPL, Physics etc, and I´ve passed apptitude tests for flight schools and the military, I think I can invest my mone in pilot training. Do you think that I should become an astronaut, Politician and Chief Doctor before I start thinking of aviation. The fact is that nobody can know for sure wether he will be sucessfull in a certain careerpath but with the A-levels and everything mentione above, I can see wich subjects I am better in and choose a career accordingly. Combined with my interest and motivation, I think I can be sucesfull in the ATPL etc, like many other. I am not saying that I can fly through it, I will have to work hard like everybody else. I am not going to sit at home for the rest of my life just because I have no experience and I can´t tell for sure how it will look in the end of university etc. No one can!

And thanks for the info Whirlygig, I will consider the options!

Some other ideas......
 

There are are a lot of options and choosing the best for you depends on your skills and long term motivation.

There are full time aviation degrees that will train you to fly professionally as well as developing your maths skills to the level where you can do complex statistical tasks (such as analyse safety or economic data, or identify new route viability etc) as well as providing a good background in what makes an airline run. The advantage of an aviation degree is that it will allow you a much better chance to remain in the industry if you lose your medical.

One option on the other side of the world (Sydney) is at UNSW: see University of New South Wales - UNSW - Home. This offers a fleet of new Diamond DA40s at a university which rates in the top 50 internationally (according to their website) and which includes a good swag of quantitative academic subjects.

I have to disagree. Sweeping statements like that help no one as you have not provided any supporting evidence for your obviously simplistic outlook on life (sorry to be so blunt).

As mentioned elsewhere above for a lot of good jobs it does not matter what degree you have, just having a degree (any degree) is required. Also if it has decent management content that can be applied anywhere.

Besides I know of a graduate from an aviation degree who is now earning a fortune as a paralegal advisor in aviation to a City law firm.

I have to agree with Groundloop, most jobs nowadays, it doesn't matter what degree you have. A degree just shows that you have some life experience and have the ability to learn and apply yourself. As most of us want to become pilots, I think that if you choose to do a degree, just do it because you enjoy the subject, not because you feel you have to for a potential "if everything doesn't work out" career.

Another point to consider is do you really want to have debts from uni when you are planning to start your flight training? Maybe if you have full financial support from your parents it doesn't matter so much but unfortunately most of us are not in that situation. I personally would love to skip a degree and go straight into work to save money for training; I know it is very risky though...

You guys get in debt because of getting a degree? wow, here in Belgium we pay around 600€ per year + another 300 for books a year. And you can sell those to those who come behind you.:eek:

Alright for some :{

Ok I have my first lesson for my PPL next saturday.

Ive decided to buy a logbook.

AFE Professional Pilot Logbook £15.50

Is that appropriate in case of further post PPL training?

Also, what do you write for a 1 hour lesson?

Do you just simply put "1 hour" or do you have to specify time taken for taxiing and actual "in the air" time?

Thanks.

Fabbe and adam
 

Wew, seems like you might need to start a new 'how to'' thread if you want to ask those sort of specific questions. I'm sure the logbook you get wouldnt matter an awful lot. It's the content that counts. Make sure it is nice and neat though. and use the same pen for all entries.

My 2c, in an area i feel myself quite experienced.

Finishing up a degree in Aviation in Brisbane. This gave me access to a government loan, and also an airline cadetship, which has been keeping me busy.

I believe getting a degree is worthwhile, and also enjoyable (uni life can be quite, hm, flexible), whilst providing the opportunity to meet new people in a good environment. I have learned a lot, and gained much from my experience.

In retrospect, I would have probably rather done a degree in another area to fall back on (it's only a few years, and you are still young). You have your entire life ahead of you.

Ofcourse, if you are a die-hard-wannabe-pilot, then start training now and harness that zeal.

It is a large investment, and should be well thought-out (something i can say i didnt do too much of during the beginning of my tertiary education).

As for fabbe - having good grades is a good beginning. I know, after getting a gilmpse at the many possibilities of study on offer out there, that i could have done a couple of other degrees that would have been very interesting and challenging. There is a lot of knowledge to be gained out there, and a lot of interesting areas in our world. Just have a browse, and see what you might like. Hell, if you try something and dont like it, you can just change degrees. I've had many friends change degrees many times, and have found something which they like. But, if aviation is really the only apple of your eye, then get into it!! Be careful though... as has been said previously, it is a very fickle industry.

Im in the thick of it now though, and owe a lot of money, so i will see this through to the end. not to mention i thoroughly enjoy it, despite the many pressures.

A degree in economics, politics or any other social area would be interesting to me because it increases my general knowledge and I believe it could help, develope me as a person. Because, if you skip uni and go directly into aviation, the only thing you know is how to drive a plane. It's fantastic but it's allso nice with some understanding of the things on the ground. However this is the only reason I can think of. If I loose my medical or get sick of being away from the family, a degree in aviation is something I could use. Because aviation is the thing I want to do.

Another thing is, that when I'm done with training at the age of 24, I will be jeallous at the guys whom allready have a couple of thousand hours, hehe.

This is true. The situation I am in now. But I hardly regret it.

To be honest, I don't know how far the degree in aviation will get you. Aviation isn't really a field that you can 'branch-out' an awful lot (unless into ATC, or engineering). The degree in my case, was purely out of interest, and to get funding from the government.

Another thing tjat has to be taken into consideration, is the economical climate. When speaking to pilots F/Is and experts, they say that now is a good time to slowly start with PPL etc. No rush they say, but try to be ready in 2012-2014 so you can jump on the boom-train. The fact is, that if I go to uni, wich will take me 2-4 years + 2 years pilot training, I risk stepping out into another meltdown, and end up sitting on my bottom for 10 years without a job.

What do you guys say about this risk?

fabbe

a degree in aviation will give you as much chance at a job as a pilot!!.. Broaden your horizons, do something generic like Mechanical Engineering. Booms in Pilot recruitment have no known length of time so the calculation you have made of 2 years being the next boom is wrong! Yes there is a risk of when you start.