Integrated/Modular training
 

Hi,

Im currently working as a Quantity Surveyor but have always wanted to become a Pilot.

I have been looking into the training over the past year having done a few lessons at local airfield over the past few years.

Is spending 100k worth it? (if i can get it) Will there be jobs out there in a years time? Have looked into to flights schools one in Ireland & one in the UK. Is there a cheaper way around this with the same qualifications at the end?

I would appreciate any reply,

Cheers.

Welcome to PPrune BLC1!

If you dont mind me asking - how old are you? The aviation game is, like anything, about timing. :}

What schools have you looked at in Ireland and UK?

BLC1,

Did all my training in Ireland Modular at various training organisations. PM and I'll fill ya in on any questions you have.

WWW I've always loved reading your optimistic posts...nothing like the Welsh to pee on everyone's BBQ...(love you really)...

Yes QE is over; yes bankers are currently tighter than ducks arses, but...

Populations are expanding, cheap air travel will always be needed, globalisation will see to that, and pilots will retire or lose their med cat. Economies will grow, eventually, and credit will free up once banks have re-paid their debt to the treasury (circa 2012 for LloydsTSB)...I don't see a return to the days of fat cat wages and dolly birds hanging off your arms (well, maybe not yours, but mine perhaps)...but there will always be respectable gainful employment...airline success/failure is cyclical, and very sensitive to immediate economic fluctuations, and always will be.

I get slightly irked when I see chaps and chapesses streaming on about low wages and poor T&Cs/lifestyle etc...£1800 pm with a £75K debt IS restrictive...but whose fault is that. Grass is always greener...pardon the cliché ... amazes me that recruiters consider applications from such individuals – I thought mental agility was a key requirement of the role of PIC!?

I spent 12 yrs in the RAF, on the ground. One third of that was walking foot patrols in smelly places (no, not Slough) for about 25% less pay than one of my grow bag entombed colleagues...I now get spat on, verbally abused, beaten up and generally hated by most of the UK (no, I'm not an Ops Offr), in my current role as a Police Constable... all for the princely sum of £1700 take home pm.

Second career change of the decade, I'm soon to shout out to a well known local Flying Club to ask them to muddle me through a PPL. Yes, I was a geeky Air Cadet who got his glider wings at 16... considering I'm due to blow about £45k of the father in laws’ savings (realistic modular...cheers Col...) on buying my way into the blue yonder, I would happily take home £1800 pm on graduation ... and personally right now (yes my attitude will probably change) I couldn't give a Catholic Bishop whether I'm flying a sky van over Weston, or a 20 yr old 737 to and from Egypt...

Anyhow, much love...

:E

Got a question for you guys... I'm currently in my last year of a bachelor in aviation engineering. I've got almost enough money to start my PPL (work more than a day for just one flying hour -_-) What would be the smartest move? Do a master (additional 2 years, but around 4-500€/month difference in wage) or start working and get additional licences? I wouldn't care that much not to get my other licences as long as I can fly with my PPL and already make some hours...

I also have a question for you guys . . earlier this year I completed a PPL at Bodmin and have around 140 hours to my name and was thinking of a winter project to keep the mind busy through the colder months and to keep me out of the pub also.

The ATPL theory looks like the way to go which should serve as a potential stepping stone to other things but as I am 43, I would like to know roughly what chances I have of getting jobs flying in wierd and wonderful places in small / medium / large prop jobs given that I am relatively free from all of the usual anchors that hold us back (wife / job / kids etc).

Not too fussed about a massive wage as have generated an alternative income so would be up for working for some funky outfit somewhere regardless.

Am I deluded that there may be jobs out there for balding blokes with a bit of life experience as opposed to young enthusiasic academic spottty blokes who can pass exams easily?

Hi folks, completely sold on the modular route and coming up on 35hrs ppl. Im looking into getting spoon fed for the atpl exams. Do any schools teach a full time course from the Bristol material? Failing that recommendations for best full time courses. Cheers

Fantastic post El Pres - my sentiments exactly:D

A certain school in Ireland now offering Integrated Training at £55,000 all in......I'll give you a clue. It begins with N and ends with C :O

Is there an F there too? Just saw that. It certainly rates alongside modular prices. They are only taking 8 trainees initially. I happen to know this was being worked on for quite some time. The first course will be something of a test case and may be a loss leader.

One thing to note, they are heavily connected to Ryanair. Instructors and family.

Interesting!

May I know the name of this school in Ireland?

plenty of clues N F C .ie

ATPL ground
 

Has anyone been through the atpl ground school at BCFT? looking for first hand advice on approaching decision making time.

BCFT Ground School
 

I have done all training apart from PPL through BCFT.

All Instructors are very helpful and friendly, If i had to do the training all over again i would go back to them straight away

The Instructors will help you through the ATPL's and nothing is too much trouble for them. If they need to stay after lessons to help you with a subject they will.

cost of integrated courses
 

I have been doing some research into integrated courses and obviously reading these threads.

What I cant understand is why everyone says integrated costs approx £100K

Figures I have been given from CABAIR, Oxford and CTC all fall into the £60K region for fAPTL

Please enlighten me ...

Fair question.

The £65,000 is what the integrated schools charge. But then their prospective employers, realizing they have an oversupply of eager young things who have already proven themselves to be naive and impressionable, then ask them to make an up-front investment in their airline under the guise of an over-priced "type rating" with line "training" of about £20,000+.

Add to that the unfortunate reality of needing to feed oneself for a year and to be housed, and the keen aviator is now in with close to £100,000.

But it doesn't stop there. Because typically the money is obtained via a loan from a bank, the total cost of the show is now about £140,000 (although to be fair I'm neglecting the effect of inflation over the amortization period in that back-of-the-envelope calculation).

That £140,000 will, of course, have to be paid back with after-tax money (at lets say a 35% marginal tax bracket), so the total earnings required to pay for that wonderful integrated course is likely to be around £220,000 (again inflation effects conveniently neglected).

It suits the airline (heavily indebted employees make great workers), it suits the school (BMW's aren't cheap you know), and it suits the bank (the dividends on my shares have to be paid somehow).

It's a beautiful business model.

With CTC, you heard wrong about the £60,000. For the wings course, £69,000 + NZ$17,400 for the foundation flying course (this is necessary and is not included in the course price), which already totals £80,000. Then probably £10,000 living expenses for 2 or so years whilst on the course. iCP (non wings cadets) will have to pay full price for a type rating at the end, wings cadets may be offered it free/cheaper. We're already at a minimum of £90,000, then there are other costs such as remedial training if necessary and also things like medical's and CPL issue etc, probably adds up to atleast another £5,000 after travel...

Extras, inflation, loan fees aside, the course WILL cost you £80,000.

Just go Modular. Demand for Pilots is slowly increasing......................right? (This is a question, so don't slate me!)

That rather depends on whether you are looking at the best chance of a fast track airline cadet programme or simply having a basic licence that lets you jump into a very deep and very crowded pool.

As an aerial work licence which gives you a shot at becoming a flight instructor (with the additional ratings applied) or an air taxi pilot, or whatever entry level jobs are available, then yes modular is cheaper, and would hopefully help you get a first step on the career ladder.

For cadet programmes with most airlines, you would need to embark an an affiliated integrated training course with whatever supplier that particular airline subscribed to.

It is rather like buying a bicycle or a motorbike. One is definetaly cheaper than the other and makes a lot of sense financially. They will both hopefully get you want to go. However one should get you there more quickly than the other in most cases.

There are no guarantees, just choices.

Or, you could with the money you have saved doing modular, pay for TR, line training 500 hours, and still have spent less money, but improved your own chances of work.