Professional Flight Training - IR CPL MEP
 

I’m interested in training here - what’s the average pass rate and any feedback good or bad please?

thanks

I don't know their rating score but by looking at their price it's better be very good training!!!

Phone the CAA test centre at Bournemouth and ask them , then go to PAT and sign up there

Yep - I got a first time pass CPL and IR with PAT.
:ok:

I believe CPL/IR pass marks are listed on their website, Professional Air Training: Professional flight training school

I understand that the CAA keeps a record of first time pass rates of all approved training organisations. If they do, are they not obliged to release that information on a request under the freedom of information act?

PAT Professional Air Training, and PFT Professional Flight Training are two separate schools, both operating at Bournemouth, both using Duchess for IR.
PFT operate Arrow or Duchess for CPL and PAT use Duchess or Beech Sierra. both have their own FNPT2
PM me for further details.

Thanks guys for all your responses

I will be looking at both schools – but really wanted feedback from previous students – on how they found there training and how much will I need to budget above the minimum hours course – and their experiences they have had while training

@papi-74 – how long ago did you do your training
@mrwilco – can you advise on pass rates at both schools

thanks

PAT have the best results at Bournemouth this is a fact , you dont need freedom of information act just walk to the test centre and ask a direct question .
PFT's performance is not great but is probably better than cabair despite cabair students having the biggest gold wings:ok:

Not according to Companies House.

Cheers

Whirls

PFT
 

I trained at PFT

One aircraft, that is all they have, a BE 76, they do have a FNPT2 based on the BE76 which is highly recommended and makes the conversion over to flying the aircraft a very easy transition

I found them friendly and it also helped being in the same location as European, who do the 737-200 MCC,

All in all they did turn out to be very expensive but helpful if nothing else, the limited aircraft is an issue and the Arrow is not an aircraft they have, the loan it off someone else when required.

Yes the school has closed!!!

Students were told on Monday and kicked out by the afternoon some are owed large sums of money!!

Lots were let down in terms of not getting training completed some right at the end of the IR training.

And to add insult to injury it seems the simulator is in a different company name and he is now offering training to CTC students!!!:ugh:

wouldn't have put it past him!

Mike was very money orientated! like i said the plane they had was loaned so had no real assets, the room they breifed in was rented off European, as is the floor space where the FNPT2 is based. that was hie only real outlay... the licence for the the Sim :ugh:

Yeah have to agree very money orientated although what I can't work out is what happened to all the money??

As whirls says the school is still listed with companies house as operating!! which I don't understand as large amounts of money are owed!!!:mad:

I have also heard a rumour that its for sale can't imagine why anyone would buy it though as it has no assets and the name can't be worth much now.

Just wanted to point out that in my opinion the instructors are not to blame in any way and always went above and beyond esp Cliff and Simon.

I now have to work out where on the field to finish my training looking like PAT and back with Mr Rand :ok:

Also I'm very interested to hear from other former PFT students if and by how much they went over the stated course cost as there seems to be a recurring theme with ex PFT students I have spoken to regarding quoted price and actual price PM me if your shy:O

No way!!!!! – This sounds like a nightmare!!:eek:

So who is this mike! I take it he owns PFT? If it’s the same person who I think it is, I did meet him at the FLYER show recently! a very smooth talker!!:yuk:, and from the way he spoke he did say that the training was the best at Bournemouth!! And that’s why the price of the course was a little more than the others at EGHH.

But if he’s done this to you guys, how is the CAA letting him get away with this is or is this not covered by the CAA!!! Or does the CAA not get evolved in these sorts of matters!!:= can they HELP:ugh:or can anyone...:rolleyes:

@ matty 31 – how did you cope with the level of training how far have you got and how long until you to finish!!! Was it up to par or!!! Have you found it difficult to cope with – and did you go over hours by a few hours or lots!!

Thanks

Rhea I found the training with the flight instructors to be good, but the sim training was in hindsight very poor with the basics not being taught correctly this isn't just my opinion but also that of other students and instructors.

Cliff the ex CFI is now at PAT and is well respected on the airfield both by other instructors and the CAA examiners so I will most likely go and finish my training there.

Other students aren't so lucky and are owed large sums of money and have had to put flight training on hold indefinitely!!!

The thing with PFT is that although there website claims they have 5 planes they in fact only have 1 full time plane and that is hired they also advertise a 2:1 ratio of student to instructor and this was never evident in the time I was there.

if you need any further advice pls pm me.

Cheers

Matty

chaps,

I know nothing whatsoever about this company, but it is common practice in the business world to hold a company in one name and trade it as something different. Letting the hold company go bust and then continuing to trade the original (or something similar) under "new ownership" is known in my neck of the woods as "flipping" the business.

It is entirely legal and it happens every day in all sorts of ways. My gym for example has just been flipped and is now called something else, despite the fact that everything, including the owner, has stayed the same.

Like I said, I have no idea if that is the case with your school, but it might offer an explanation.

Kind of annoying to see the people with your money disappear, only to reappear next day, without you money anymore - it happened to me twice in in two weeks in my previous business.

Caveat Emptor

I'm interested to know if there is any action we the students can take to recover money owing etc??

Is there somewhere we can get some advice about this?

I was under the impression that once a school had closed its doors and was unable to pay its debts then it must cease trading or be committing fraud?

As you can see I am no legal expert.... :confused:

Find out who the administrator is and register yourself as a creditor. You will then have a legal right to be kept in touch with the winding up of the company and invitations to meetings etc.

You may not get much (any) money back, but it is an education finding out about the murky world of commerce. And you might get the opportunity to vent your spleen at a meeting or two.

PAT are fantastic! Training is top notch!

This sounds like daylight robbery!!!:mad:


As a future student I am now concerned. what stops a company like this taking my money and not providing me the sufficient training I am paying for or even running away with my money while I train. :=

Will the CAA not help!!! :ugh:I would have thought they could do a little more to help or to step-in and protect student pilots in this time of finical crises were today money is so hard to find.

Maybe the police or trading standards would be interested in some of your experiences but I definitely will not be training there now.:rolleyes:

So what should I be looking out for in a training school - and where can I verify and independently check the credentials of the school I wish to train and will they be monitored on a regular basis?

thanks

i am one of those students that has the wool pull over my eyes....we were kicked out on Monday without a reason....

i have paid over £30,000 to this crook - Mike Boulton took my money and didn’t care about my training at all! I am quite angry and at a loss.

Can anyone help me build a case against this man…

If it's any help Flying Time Aviation in Shoreham has arranged a discount for the students that have been let down by the flight school.

If you want further information just PM me.

mierda,

I am intrigued, what is a rescue package??

Perhaps it’s another shameless plug by 12bpilot….AKA Matty31……AKA mierda???
12bpilot you are at it again and you have been pulled up for it before!

First it was CATS, next it was SKYMATES, then it was PFT. Is it now Flying Time???

:=

The Curse of Google

Read the post on the previous page regarding flipping? Some companies became legendary for it especially in the shark infested worlds of double glazing and furniture.

What has become obvious to us at PPRuNe over the last 18 months is the rapidly growing number of begging letters we receive. Here's part of this week's example:

Posts going back 5 years and more are lurking there at the top of google and it's causing a lot of stress for previous devotees of the flippee sect.

If there's a very public front man for an operation there's a whole new research tool for you.

If you have been shafted by the demise of a no assset flippee get the simple unvarnished truth up here and on other forums. Include the flippers name carefully, correctly and Google will be your friend for many years to come.

And sadly it has come to pass again.
More than ten years of warnings ignored.

Don't pay up front.

Pay with a credit card - not a debit card

Never pay by any method to an account in a country other that where the FTO is based. i.e into a Jersey account for a Florida school which has always been a favourite.

Ask questions here and on other forums - why would a no asset operation need significant sums up front?

If you have been shafted state it loud, state it clearly, and get get the flipper's name in twice. New company from the ashes? You might want to mention that as well.

Rob

Well I thought I might add my thoughts about PFT – all the instructors and student that have been there for the last 6months will know who I am and will know my feelings at the moment. So I’m going to hide behind any login names.

As a potential airline student and as an individual coming from an academic background that has had no previous aviation knowledge, I tried to do as much research in training providers as possible. On doing so I narrowed my choices to a few options. PFT then became my final choice, as I was told I was going to get the best training in England, and like many of you I embarked on a journey that will finally result in becoming an airline pilot. (Or so I thought). I started my modular training at PFT at PPL level and have watch patiently while I complete my ground ATPL’s . If I had known that my training was going to be like this I defiantly would have gone elsewhere. If it wasn't for a few individuals that kept my going at the school I wouldn’t have continued with my training and left my dream in aviation.

Reading some of the previous posts above - I have had 1st hand experience and seen some of the unjust demands made by the so called capt Bolton.

From the 1st day I started at PFT the so called capt Mike Bolton has never been truthful in his convictions, actions or his words with me or with any of other students or instructors that have been through this training organisation.

All training pilots and instructors from any respected flight school know that a structure is fundamental and the 1st few hours in the FNPT simulator lay the foundation bricks for your all important instrument ratting. Along with experienced teaching, it’s essential that you receive continuity in such a vital time of your training. So as a Capitan who has a flight school orientated on IR and CPL you would have thought these facts would be the embedded in the foundation of your school!

With capt Bolton repeated telling us that the so called other schools on the EGHH air field like PAT, BCFT and others @EGHH had a history of ripping students off and moving the goal posts. As well this he’d never fly with the CFI of BCFT capt Plews if he were a student, and was not to be trusted. Since then I have talked to capt Plews and found him to be well organised, proficient and quite competent although a little eccentric.(a cool look in my books)

The miracle glue that held the school together was the previous CFI “Mr. rand” who is well respected by EGHH, us and is sorely missed. He should have never been treated so badly. A thank you also goes to Wilko, Tracy and Maria.

But if you so called cynics and sceptics need any verification on how the students or instructors were treated, I am willing to talk to you face to face or by phone. I’m willing to put you straight on some FACTs on how bad the training and how the escalation of cost was engineered to stretch your patients and bank to the maximum potential. Just email me here for my phone no. or any questions.

nothing to do with me I am off to PAT in Jan to finnish my training!!!

1 post I see umbungo :cool:


Matty

As mentioned by PPRUNE TOWERS wanted to make sure those search tags get logged.

The School is Professional Flight Training the owner is Mike Boulton he also owns Simulator training services.

IMHO. You would be crazy to go near this school, Please really do your research not just on the hearsay of other students who may be embarrassed or unable due to pressure from the school to tell you whats going on , but by checking here on PPRUNE and maybe even speaking with the CAA staff examiners although they prob wont tell you directly they will give in my experience some good advice.

Although the advice is always not to pay up front this can be impossible when taking out a Career development loan as the money is payed directly to the school this was the case with one of the students at PFT she now faces paying back a loan for training she hasn't received!!!

All of this is wonderful in hindsight though:ugh:

Just hope 2010 is better year for both ex PFT and the rest of the aviation world.... couldn't get much worse... don't answer that www...

Matty,

I agree with you, people should not invest large sums of money into these organisations, there is no need. Hindsight is a wonderful thing however trawling back through time Mr Boulton has had the benefit of the financial acumen of one Mr Colin Greed (sft now cabair, enogh said) and Mr Tony Kember ex chief flt examiner for caafu and one time owner of Examiner's training agency (shame on you CAA) . De ja vous really as usual it is the innocent people who have to pick up the pieces,

i hope 2010 is a better year for everyone,

Rob

Never pay upfront. Ever. The only time I ever paid upfront was on attending Bristol Ground School, which is sort of understandable as you have to pay to get the ATPL manuals.

I would recommend PAT. It is a pay-as-you-go school. In fact, on quite a few occasions, I owed them money!

There are so many on here who have been to PAT that their reputation is second to none.

BCFT
 

Or try BCFT they are right beside PAT on the airport, you also do not have to pay any money up front. Just pay as you go. I was very happy there. I think they are slightly cheaper too, but dont quote me on it. Much of a muchness though really when it comes to these two outfits.

A lot of people recommend Professional Air Training (PAT) so the training/service must be fairly good.

I personally wouldnt train there, because I found their staff extremely abrupt and rude at the Flyer show I attended a few months ago, sadly I couldnt remember their names, otherwise I would have complained, Collinson rings a bell but im not sure.

I have a friend who trained with CATS then Professional Flight Training (PFT), he didnt have any problems with them and works for Ryanair now.

How many times does it have to be said? Never, ever, pay large sums of money upfront for flying training. Ever.

There is no genuine reason for any flight school to demand pre-payment for flying courses, and it should ring alarm bells loudly and clearly if they do. It is fair and reasonable to keep your account in credit, but even at IR prices, that should require no more than £600-700 per day. Ideally by credit card.

For what it’s worth, I also trained at Professional AIR Training (PAT). First time IR pass in close to minimum hours, at the quoted price and within the expected timescale. Recommended by the school for 2 airline interviews (in happier times, alas), now flying Dash 8s. If I had one criticism of the operation, it’s that if anything, some students felt we were being overtrained – which is an expensive luxury in a Duchess. No doubt the school would immediately point to their first time pass rates as justification.

I say again, never pay more than you need to to keep your account in credit.

Try flying time at Shoreham who use Diamond DA40 / DA42 Glass Cockpit A/C and have a brand new DA42 sim.

There CPL / IR courses are a lot cheaper then the Duchess operators like PAT / BCFT.

A few of the operators that have hired in the past 1 - 2 years sometimes had a preference for glass and got a few people I personally know through to interview just on this and jobs with some private / public operations. Although right now no one will be hiring.

Potentially this year could also see more training organisations going out of business if last year less people did enter into the arena of ATPL exam study, class 1 medicals or were unable to obtain financing required from the banks to train and decided to choose other career paths for the time being.

Like the previous posts, don't pay upfront, use credit card and only top up when you owe them money.

Good luck

guys....

yes PAT is a good school but were talking about PFT!!!!....

i know everyone says dont pay up front - but when taking out a Career development loan for training the banks/your money is payed directly to the school.

so how do we get round this issue - as some of my friends that trained here are in a bad way!!

hmmm and the idea of keeping students in the sim and not brining them up to a fair standard just so to stretch it out make as much money as possible is truly despicable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and what will the CAA do about Professional Flight Training and Simulator training services as the owner is Mike Boulton is still trading - surely the CAA would be interested in the standard of teaching and would ask questions why and how is a school aloud to operate in this manor, and would ask how other schools @ EGHH have had the task of picking up the pieces and bringing the ex students up to CAA standards (thanks to PAT and BCFT).

davey147..... suggested that you ask your friend at ryanair how much more he had to pay to get his IR at PFT as no one i know has ever been anywhere near there initial quoted figure time or price + 15-20% - at the moment its running at 50-100% on top of the minimum quoted figure hours+price.

and yes CATS is a very good ground school!!! probably one of the best!!! as I'm there doing my ATPLs at the mo!!!!

Try Airways Flight Training Exeter. Unbelievable training.Got me through in 5 weeks for IR. They are the school of choice for mili chaps doing civil conversions, but they do a modular course as well.

Check out the instructors backgrounds. Tells a story. Lovely people, who really treat you nicely. Dont worry you wont be paired with Red 1 or 5!. I went their due to bad experience at Bournemouth. Actually considered chucking it all in.

AFT got me back in the seat,gave me belief, and on my test, was congratulated on a very confident and assured flight.
AFT did not ask for a penny from me untill after flight test. Their reason being that they did not want to impart any additional stress on student throughout there training.

Phone them and ask for Brian. :ok:

Have a friend who went from pft to Airways Exeter to complete his CPL and couldn't believe the difference in the standard of training he really wishes he had done the IR there after having problems at pft.

My only concern personally is learning a new airport and some new routes so far on in my training :ugh:

As for not paying up front in a previous post I luckily didn't but a friend who took out a CDL had no choice as the loan is paid directly to the school she now has to pay back the loan without having completed her IR!!

Matty