thanks pprune for deleting a important thread!
 

message to the forum monitor
i am trying to build hours in the states and have come across alot of anguish with a certain florida based Jaa flight School.

All i asked was for people that had similar problems with floridas flight schools to personaly email their complaints to me, so that i can forward the complaints to the BBC Watchdog program.

Instead you deleted my thread. Why?
freedom of speech is very important when people spend their hard earned cash to achieve a Dream.

certain Floridian based JAA flight schools need serious investigations in their bussiness practices but cant be touched as there outside the UK consumer protection measures.

PPRUNE is suppose to help us not stiffle us:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

Ah yes, that important thread.

The one in which you started every sentence with a small letter and then proceeded to mis-spell every third word. However, that aside you didn't suggest you had suffered any difficulty yourself, simply that others should send you details of any stories where they "had been treated like dirt". You didn't want to hear any stories where this hadn't happened. Once compiled you were then going to send all the stories to the " BBC Watchdog Program".

The one response before your thread was removed, simply questioned whether this was some sort of wind up.

Any one who has been here longer than 5 minutes should know that there are many stories of training establishments, both good and bad. If you can be bothered to use the search function, you will no doubt discover this for yourself. This post that you place such importance to, was submitted on the 27th January at 2245z and removed the following morning some 9 hours later. It has taken you 5 whole days to discover this travesty of justice !

Whilst it is obviously painful for us to feel we have in any way stifled your "freedom of speech", we remain committed to keeping these forums free of anything we consider inappropriate.

jetdriver, that is the best post i have read in ages. Cap dothed!

Caps
 

I think you'll find that the cap was 'doffed' but that aside, remind me never to get on the wrong side of jetdriver ! Withering fire on an admittedly static target.

Jetdriver - you beat me to it - just!

HWB

Jetdriver

Good to see that some one is on top of this.


thanks.

Hardly withering fire and hardly a static target. The owners of this site have to careful of libel allegations.

One can only wonder whether GATZY has a hidden agenda. Why should somebody who has not used a particular school want to compile a dossier on that school's alleged shortcomings for publication and broadcast?

I can categorically state that Watchdog would not be in the slightest bit interested as it's not the sort of subject matter which would bring in audience numbers.

No matter, I would reckon there is more to GATZY's motives than a crusade on behalf of disgruntled students.

Cheers

Whirls

Withering fire
 

Mr Whirls

I was, as I suspect you knew, attempting mild irony and having actually appeared (in a positive light!) on the t.v. programme mentioned, I am very much aware of how strict their production/editing values are.

In friendship,

Eagle402.

Eagle402,

I'm afraid your irony wasn't that apparent - and I am British! However, my post was aimed at the general readership.

Cheers

Whirls



PS - If you wish to address someone by title, please check his or her profile first! Ta!

Freedom of speech does not exist here.

No constitutional right exist here. In fact being British they certainly do not exist here.

This is a dictatorship. Benign. Informed. Intelligent. Experienced.

One could even say it resembles a Constitutional Monarchy. Though Danny has never gotten around to writing a Constitution.

Whine about your rights as long as you like old chap. We frankly don't give a damn.

WWW

Now THAT'S withering fire! :}

Cheers

Whirls

I doubt Watchdog would be interested as not enough people involved. It's also a little too remote from regular viewers daily lives. They only seem to cover stories than make people think "that could be me" where as most will be thinking "Wow Florida, wish I could go there". Now if you could find a little old lady or two who was having problems with their flying school stealing their pension it might be different.

Now if you could find a little old lady or two who was having problems with their flying school stealing their pension it might be different.



well oxford have got to pay for their new logo somehow!!!;);)

Can't say I've ever been stiffled, but Whirls might. WWW says it all - if you think you have any rights at all on this site, you completely misunderstand the situation.

OI! :ouch: I resemble that comment!!! :\

It may be said that a bottle of Shiraz could have me stiffled but ...... :}

Cheers

Whirls

Does any of your comments help well no its doesnt. IT has acheved the square root of ZERO.
1. just beacuse i didnt check on the thread every five minutes it doesnt make it NOT important .it was an important thread and if you read the prev one you would of noticed i was in florida hour building (attention to the detail ie facts (and your a pilot!))so did not have access or time to check on the thread.
2. i mispelled a couple of things so what!
If you want to be a English Teacher change your job .
Dont just MOAN at me(you got the point anyhow!) and bearing in mind the fact i did not have the time to analyse my thread before sending it beacause a certain flight school doesnt even let you view PPrune. and if you want to go round it properly THen why dont you moan at people that dont present it as a formal letter or punctuation? SMUCK!
3. it might not matter to you. hence why the title of my original thread was aimed a those with problems with floridian flights schools.
and secoondly i matters to me and there is no hidden agenda (why the **** would there be?) i am wanting make a stand against the evil prctices that happen at thease flight schools in terms of people getting ripped of with there hard earned money ..YES HARD EARNED MONEY i bet most of you that made the stupid nonsence little helpful (mostly harmful)comments where Sponsered through life aswerll as avation by the Mummy or Daddy LIKE most of the spoilt little BRATS you are. and by shooting my comments down in flames proves that!
4. how do you know watchdog won`t be intrested? beacause you assumed?gueess what they are i personally know the Exec Producer.
whos is very much intrested
YOU ARE THE WEAKEST LINK GOODBYE

One thing you learn about this website is don't make enemies, especially with the mods, you should be more careful where you do business!! Watchdog is only interested in dodgy companies that affect the masses!:bored:

Well done Jetdriver:ok:

Wise up GATZY:=

Do any of your comments help ? Well no they don't. They have achieved the square root of zero.
Start the sentence with a Capital letter. "Beacause" is spelt because. The "i" should be a capital "I". The word "didnt" should have an apostophe as in "didn't". There is an apostophe in doesn't. Comma after "important" unless you intended to start a new sentence after the misplaced full stop, in which case "it" should start with a capital "I". "Prev" isn't a word, and if you are using it as an abbreviation it should have an apostrophe after it. Your use of "would of noticed" should be "would have noticed". That small "i" again ! Florida is a proper noun and should be spelt with a capital letter. Ironically your " ( attention to the detail ie facts ( and your a pilot!)) so did not have access or time to check on the thread", lacks a great deal of attention to detail. There is both a misuse and over use of brackets together with a dearth of punctuation marks. The use of i.e requires a full stop between the letters, as it is an abbreviation of the latin id est (that is).
That "i" again. This time a double fault, as it is both a pronoun and the start of a new sentence. With even more irony you "mispelled" misspelled. "So what !" Should have a question mark (?), rather than exclamation mark (!)
Well done on the use of the capital letter, however you should have said an English teacher. There is no requirement for a capital letter in the word teacher.
Don't needs the apostrophe again. Moan doesn't require full capitalization and you should leave a space between "me" and the the following open bracket. The exclamation mark at the end of "anyhow" serves as a full stop and the next word should therefore start with a capital letter. You have used a pronoun "i" again. "Bearing in the mind the fact (that) I did not have time". Because not "beacause". "SMUCK" once again doesn't require full capitalisation, however even if you do that for visual effect, the actual word you are looking for is "Schmuck", which is American slang for a foolish or contemptible person.

Capital letter when starting a sentence again ! Comma instead of full stop between "you" and "hence". The letter "a" should be at. Floridian flight schools requires a capital for the proper noun.
Starting a sentence with "and" and even then starting without a capital letter. Secondly not "secoondly". That little "i" again. It seems you have all but given up on the use of punctuation marks. The words are "practices", "these", "their hard earned money", "nonsense", "unhelpful", "as well", "sponsored", "aviation", "ripped off". Start sentences with capital letters and not the word "and".
Start sentences with capital letters. Won`t should be won't. The spelling is "interested", although you clearly are not. The use of the punctuation question mark is the same as a full stop, so the "beacause" should either be misspelt with a capital letter, or spelt "Because". The spelling is "guess". Use punctuation, as the sentence "guess what they are i personally know the Exec Producer" needs either a full stop or a comma after the word "are" and an apostrophe after the abbreviation "Exec". The contaction "who's" requires an apostrophe and the subsequent "is" is unnecessary. The final "intrested" of course should be interested.No, having tried it, I do not want to be an English teacher. Although I am clearly just having a bit of fun with your angry and somewhat delayed riposte, it is rare to see such a poor level of spelling and syntax, in a pilot for whom English is their mother tongue, or is over the age of 11. This is a bulletin board and therefore there is no reason to take particular care with our spelling or use of language. However there are a great many contributors here for whom English is not their mother tongue, and given the many complexities of the language, make a stirling effort in their postings.

The real point was, that if you want to complain about the removal of your declared important thread, at least make some effort to show why it was important, and take less than a week to notice the absence. Still, as you say we "are the weakest link" as you have so ably demonstrated. It is fortunate that you know the executive producer of the television show, as he would probably have considerable difficulty were he to have to rely on written correspondence from you.

Good luck and goodbye.

Jet Driver: Nice one Centurion!:)

GATSY (assuming you are still following this thread): This is not a post from a spoilt “brat”. Like you I went modular – FAA licences and converted to JAA. Mummy and Daddy did not pay for my training: my young family made sacrifices so I could pursue a burning desire to become a professional pilot. So I can appreciate that it must be frustrating to receive what you consider to be negative inputs when all you seek is to highlight a subject close to your heart; however, believe it or not, people are trying to help you prepare for the future.
Attention to detail is vital in professional aviation: you need it to pass the professional flying tests, you need it to produce an impressive C.V. that gets you that elusive interview, you need it to pass the interview, and you definitely need it in commercial flying. It may appear anally retentive to you, but shoddy and somewhat insular posts suggest that the poster would be like that on a flight-deck too – which of course hardly endears them to fellow pilots. Harsh, but true.

Watchdog would not be interested - it is not a consumer issue, not something likely to affect the wider public in any way at all...

Wow!
 

This reminds me of watching a napalm strike. Well done!

I had someone on another thread whining that I was a "spelling nazi" (sic) when I thought I would wind him up by pointing out that you really do need to use proper English if you expect your readers to take you seriously.

Are we seeing the "whatever" generation now having to pay for their fun, twiddling a Game Boy beneath the desk while that boring old English teacher was trying to get their attention with the rules and conventions of speech? "Probably" is my guess.

Poor darlings, they were once cosseted, awarded points for "self-expression" and never mind the spelling or grammar and now they are out in the hard, cold world being burnt alive just for being totally ignorant. What, no points for self-expression here? Must you really insist on mistake-free English? That's sick, dude!

Just browsing threads as usual, and it makes me wonder why people go to all this effort to prove certain points, 9/10 is due to spelling issues. If you look in most threads there are normally one, two or three people that correct every spelling mistake and each others.

This is one of many reasons I don't (do not) use this forum as much anymore, because you get flamed for mis-spelling and constantly moaned at, its similar to the moaning you get off your mother for forgetting to bring your washing downstairs.

Overall, someone will probably correct my spelling and spend 10 minutes doing it, partly to emphasise their superior intelligence. :*

Why bother WD ?

Here's a clue, the spelling and punctuation analysis is merely the sub text to the the real, substantive critique of this posturing vegetable's offerings.

Alright girls...claws in:} (or is that 'claus inn'?)

This thread makes great reading. Watchdog! As if they or the general public are going to be the slighest bit interested in a load of priveledged moaners, who are having trouble whilst swanning around sunny Florida doing something that most people can only dream of and spending sums of money that most people will never get their hands on.

Moderators, is there any chance of posting this guy's original post, say with the name of the flying school blanked out? I want to see what all the fuss is about.

There wasn't a complaint about any school in the original posting. It was a solicitation for anyone who had complaints about flying schools in Florida, that :hmm: (I have added the punctuation). The author wasn't interested in any good stories which he dismissed as irrelevant. He wanted to complile a list of these stories to send to his favoured television show. There was no suggestion that the author had suffered any such fate himself, although reading the post again, even the highlighted extract above, the connection is perhaps less tenuous than it first appeared ?

As you know there is a plethora of threads on PPRuNe concerning flight training establishments, containing a whole range of experiences, from very good to utterly outrageous.

I didn't actually remove this particular thread, however I would imagine that the moderator who did, couldn't decide whether the effort expended in saving the authors embarrasment at the presentation was only surpassed by the vacuousness of the content ? In either case it was a good call.

We don't usually flame people for their spelling or their grammar, however we have had a bit of fun with this particular thread. Yes it is indulgent, but it's a small consolation for the bruises we usually get, banging our heads against the brick wall. :ugh:

I know of a couple of ATPL guys with crap spelling, should I be reporting them to the CAA? Or are you lot taking the "you know what"?!

Camel toe, there's bad spelling and there's incoherent twaddle! Whilst I get the general gist, although not the precise meaning, of the paragraph quoted below, it is little more than an immature rant.
As PPrune Towers said, criticism of the grammar used is a sub-text to the whole thread which I can only imagine is a wind-up.

Cheers

Whirls

The point I'm making is that spelling and grammar on this forum seems to be on everyone's agenda, it's a cheap shot really as there are decent people who can't spell for buggery but who make good pilots. Need I highlight the point that there are dyslexic pilots out there?!

Stick to the relevant tirade of insults on the individual who has got under your skin, but to those who insist on picking up on grammer and spelling on what seems to be every thread might I ask that you consider winding your neck in. It is not a direct indicator of anything (class, level of intelligence, age etc), even though some seem to use it as exactly that.

Camel Toe

"Over Macho Grande?"

Yes, but if you can't spell your airline application form will be on a 1-way trip to the shredder. If you use a decent browser (eg. Firefox), there are plenty of spell-checking add-ons which will help you out.

Using dyslexia as an excuse is poor. You've got a computer, use it.

Don't be ridiculous, this is not somewhere that requires the same amount of pampering, stroking and deliberating that a Letter of Application would get.

If you think people should only write on here using the same level of care as a CV you are living in a naive cyberspace world. If you can find me one person who spell checks every post on here, every email they ever send to friends, I will find you ten who don't.

Having said that I do agree with your comment, and important documents such as CV's, personal statements, letters to the boss etc, should come under ones "Quality Control", but posts on here............nope.

Camel Toe

"Over Macho Grande?"

Back on to Florida flying schools i had a mixed experience with one, it shall remain nameless as they may well be a sponsor of the site, or they may not and as the forum wants to make money there could be repercussions for them should a sponsor or contributor RX bad press

Why not? Either you have standards or you don't.

Much in the same way that I don't wear my "Sunday Best" on a bank holiday monday morning when I'm slobbing about. Different standards for different occasions.

Camel Toe

"Over Macho Grande?"

If you regard being able to converse naturally with correct spelling and grammar as, "sunday best", then you really need to give yourself some thought. Whilst your wkd, l33t friends might think it, "uncool", that's the way of the world I'm afraid.

"Spell properly", "flight-plan properly", "deal with a dead engine an hour from land properly". Melodramatic? Perhaps... But it's all indicative of quality. You either have it or you don't, your choice. There are no short-cuts, and no, "sunday best". Being a good pilot is not simply about how you fly the aircraft, it's about who you are. Airline selection and psychometrics will find you out, that's what they're there for.

I think this thread is becoming derailed, so I apologise.

"Being a good pilot is not simply about how you fly the aircraft, it's about who you are."

Couldn't agree more. However I don't think you can compare ones ability to spell with that of being a pilot (private or commercial). Like I said in a previous post, there are people out there who are dire at spelling/grammar but who perform their duties as well as someone who would get 100% in a spelling test. It is as you say "who you are", and I would add to that many other attributes which make a good pilot.

Which brings me to this statement

"But it's all indicative of quality. You either have it or you don't, your choice."

Spelling (either garbage or perfect) on a forum such as this is most certainly not an indication of someones quality. In fact it's that sort of attitude "I speak/spell better, therefore I am superior" that I find ruins a lot of good discussion on prune.

I have chosen not to run a spell check on this, but if I was writing a letter to a future employer, or planning a flight then of course my attitude towards things like accuracy and attention to detail would be different. Efficiency or quality? Well in everything I do there is a balance, important stuff gets more time and attention, emails to friends and posts on forums get done a tad quicker, time saved I can now spend on doing something else.

It could of course just be me that doesn't get someone to read over a text message to a friend to ensure accuracy (spelling and factual) in the same way I would a CV, in which case I will just pipe down on the whole thing.

Again apoloigse to all for the drift.

Camel Toe

"Over Macho Grande?"

I think anyone with an ounce of common sense can appreciate the difference between a post containing the odd spelling mistake or grammatical error (or even typo!) and a tirade of incomprehensible ramblings which included some rather insulting comments as well!! The original poster was possibly attempting libel against one or more undisclosed school.

If a professional pilot wrote in the same manner as we have seen here then I would question his or her ability to converse concisely and clearly with the rest of the crew and would recommend CRM training immediately. This wasn't just about the use of the English language but the attitudes displayed within the posts as well.

Cheers

Whirls

tHEIRS NUThIN WURS THEN Tri-ing too reed poreley spult and un gramamAmmicle enlish

Isn't it just!

Off to JB with this thread methinks, but who cares as I've got the answer to all our problems. To be a to PPRuNe member should require demonstrated Level 4 ICAO english and acceptance of a clause stating that the member is postively disposed to the notion of a constitutional monarchy. Jobsagoodun.

sr