Academic Qualifications
 

What value does the CAA/Jaa/ Airlines place on academic quals. I have no english 'O' level and don't know if this will prevent me from getting on a course with a flight training organisation. I do have higher engineering quals but don't know if its enough? HELP!

The classic outline that the CAA set out for academic qualifications is 5 GCSE's including English Language, Maths and a Science subject. However this does not mean that these are pre-requisites to the course. All the CAA are doing is recommending that the candidate have sufficient knowledge of these subjects to start the course. In fact many schools will ask you to work through a induction pack before the course starts.
If you have higher engineering qualifications then I would think that this wouls prove that your are not stupid and are perfectly able to do the course.
Some schools may put barriers up but if you prove to them that you are up to it then I'm sure there won't be a problem.

Lets hope your right. Thanks for your comments. Guess i've just got to sort the money out now.

Academic Qualifications?
 

Hi,

I am told that airlines like BA etc only require 5 A-C GCSEs and 2 A-levels.


Now that sounds great for me as i am interested in becoming a pilot but i would still like the opportunity to go to Uni.

Am i giving myslef a very large advantage over other applicants if i take a degree or do the airlines not mind either way?

any comments welcome,

Cheers,

Jim

Hi Jimbo,

It really depends on what you actually study at University. At the end of the day (as far as I am aware) the fact you have a degree is simply a piece of paper saying you can complete a degree course to the required standard and is of little advantage at the interview stage for airlines.

It may help your training if you undertake a physics or maths related degree subject to get your head around some of the ATPL modules when you come to them. You can also sign up for the University Air Squadron and get some free flying in and have a great time doing it.

Not sure if this directly answers your question but good luck. One last point, I think the best advantage of doing the degree is that it gives you more experience of living (horrible, horrible cliche I know) which looks good on the application form and provides you with a good fall back if the flight training does not go according to plan. Always have a backup plan!

PilotOnline

thanks alot for your advice mate, wil bear it in mind when i finally get there, im only first year college at the moment!

Of course, doing a degree in any subject also builds up other skills, like time management, and team work etc etc. Bugga, it's late, wanna write my report for me? :D


Oh, and for those considering doing a postgrad course of some sort, it's GREAT for that future airline career. You get really used to having no money, and working all hourse of the night. Coffee can be pretty grim too! ;)

I would argue that a degree in the case of BA gets you up in the crowd who ARE invited to interviews and are successful. Certainly those are the minimum qualifications, but with so many keen beans, who is to be chosen? Given a choice between someone straight out of school, and a graduate or someone who has been in a relevant industry for a while, the decision would more likely go to the latter, simply as they are better able to be the top dog at selection.

Don't worry about the degree subject, worry about the classification and where you do it.

Anyone completed ATPL intergrated without A levels?
 

Hi im young, naive and unqualified. i.e im 17, want to become a commercial pilot (paid), and quit my A levels earlier this year due to personal problems.
I quit the A levels (maths, physics, english lang) not because im stupid (well i must be in a way because i quit them), but had absolutely no motivation (due to personal probs possibly).

But anyone I want to know from anyone who has or is going to do an intergrated ATPL without ever doing A levels.

I myself am confident that I can learn, apply and adapt but it would naive of me to spend an awful lot of someone elses money (family/banks) on an ATPL at hopefully Jerez and suddenly realise that im lacking certain basic knowledge.

So please anyone I would love some advice.

Why integrated? You will not get sponsorship without A-levels, nor a first job with the majors. Therefore a modular course would be a cheaper route, giving you more hours with no penalty. There is no real penalty now in any case, as all are approved.

If you have been talking to Jerez they may have been persuading you this route as I think they only do integrated. At least consider modular (I admit I work for an FTO that only does modular, but what I say is true).

Exams - level of difficulty
 

Just an observation from someone half way through modular ground school ...

I'd say the level of understanding required in the ATPL exams is close to or at A Level science standard - certainly in theory of flight, instruments and aircraft performance - also in parts of the aircraft systems papers - hydraulics, piston engines, gas turbines etc.

Other subjects like human performance are essentially a memory test, albeit interesting !. If you are numerate the mass and balance should be very straightforward. The two comms papers should be a walk over for any well trained UK PPL pilot.

Some of my friends on the course left school before 18 (or have been out of education for a long time) and have had some struggles with what may be seen as the "academic" parts of the course.

I know that Oxford are considering either a foundation course or an entrance test or both for future modular students. Seems a good idea & their pass rate is already high.

You need to take a good look at your own experience / competance so that you will get the most out of the course that you select - For myself I found that having read all Trevor Thom's books for PPL cover to cover was a very good preparation. The thing that you will not be prepared for is the sheer volume of information that the ATPL course will require you to absorb.

Your choice of distance learning or modular course not only depends on the depth of your pockets, but also on how long you want to take with the exams and how you rate your self discipline of getting down to the studying.

Hope this helps, best of luck,

D 129

I completed my ATPL without A-Levels and also employed sitting in the pointy end.

The advice above is good, if you are looking for sponsorship then there is no way a airline is going to pay for it without A-Levels at the least.

I kid you not it is very hard work and there is a lot of it and once you get your first job you find it's a career of on going exams and tests, it never stops.

Guys,

If you're motivated enough, A-Levels are irrelevant. Believe it. The ATPL exams are not easy, but they are RELEVANT. That's the key word here, and that's why many of us didn't have an interest in secondary level qualifications. Too much cr@p. If you like it it'll seem easy.

Nial

You don't need A-levels to do an ATPL. You do need them to get a job with most airlines - although the need for them is inversely proportional to your age and experience (ie the younger/less experienced you are, the more you need them).

However, more importantly than that, you do need to prepare for the possibility (even probability for the moment) that you may well not end up flying for a living. Non-A-level-qualified youngsters don't tend to get offered great jobs in any field. Think very carefully before you abandon these very useful qualifications. You're very young - you have plenty of time to qualify for whatever you want to do. Don't start stocking up the regrets cupboard just yet!

I think niallcooney has hit the proverbial nail on the head

On my ground school course there were guys with degrees who were toiling. On the other hand there were those of us with few or no A levels who found the ATPLS a breeze (ish). Why, because they were common sense and relevant to what we wanted to do in life (I exclude air law!!!).

I am in my second flying job now at 23 no-one has asked about the grade of my A levels let alone whether I have them!!

As has been said before, it’s down to hours, where and how you trained and, most of all, perseverance.

Having said all that if you can get you’re A levels,... go for them.

If however you have spent the last couple of years wondering why they teach such rubbish and have no hope of catching up, all is not lost…but you will have to work bloody hard!!!

Good luck

those damn exams
 

hi there,

just a bit of advice. i am 17 and currently doing my ATPL (modular) at Oxfrod. I have found the course to be fine as far as understanding goes. The main problem has been lack of concentration, ( girls, beer, more girls etc the usual thing that us "KEVINS" as the guys call me and they now how they are). I would the best thing is focus from day one. anyway thats all i can say, if you have anymore questions or just wanna chat e-mail me.

Cheers

Baby hormones

Zerohours,

Not wishing to depress you but there is not a bank in the land that would lend money to a 17 year old without any formal education.

Back to airframes and structures :rolleyes: Great. ;)

na I havn't done my A-levels. I worked for a year after school then went to oxford. Yeah it's ok bit pissed off though. i got 74% for my instruments. i failed by one question. How are you finding the CPL I did think about doing that. But I don't think instructing is my thing. I have little patients.

P.S I must apologise for my last post. Spelling was awful(well it was late).

Cheers

Baby Hormones

I did 'A' levels 12 years ago and only just managed to pass them.
Getting back to serious study years later was difficult but I have just recently managed to get good passes in all of the Phase I exams with OATS.

If I where you, I would do the exams now whilst your brain is still like a sponge instead of a sieve.

You can do your 'A' levels whilst queueing up to get an instructors job with me.

Mike.

PS You said "I have little patients". If this is the case, why do 'A' levels when you already have a degree in Dwarf Medicine
:D

Zero,

I can only reiterate what has already been said; You can do the ATPL without the 'A's but you will find it virtually impossible to get employment without them - trust me, I know of at least 6 young pilots in exactly the same position at the moment and the RAF and all the majors won't touch them with a barge-pole without their 'A' Levels.

Whatever you do, go back to college, do the 'A's, THEN do the ATPL - by which time, it's predicted that the industry will be crying out for pilots and you'll land yourself a great job.

Good luck and we'll see you on the flight deck in a few years time.

With respect greatorex,...you are wrong.

This is from first hand experience which is I have to say indisputable! (RAF excluded, but that's another can of beans)

Having said that ...go for the A levels.

Where has all this 'you won't get a job unless you at least have A-levels' come from?

I can think of at least two pilots without a single GCSE (let alone A-levels!) to their name who both fly jets for reputable airlines.

But yes, its a good idea to get them now while its all free from the system, you have financial backing from your folks and while you're so fresh from GCSE's. The two years will fly by.

Guys,

The point that I was trying to make, is that there are an awful lot of unemployed pilots out there. If a 17 year old asks - "should I do my A Levels or not?" The answer, in my mind, would have to be: "Yes, because you'll find it much easier to get a job with them."

We all know that 'A' levels do not make a good pilot but unfortunately, in this day and age the young guys coming into the industry need as many aces up their sleeves as they can manage. Sad, but that's the way things are.

Give it a few more years and it will be: Only Graduates with a Master's Degree in Aeronautical sciences need apply!!!! :eek:

Thanks for all the advice, I've taken a lot of it aboard from both sides of the story. I feel that 2 years of A level studies would be pretty hard for me due to lack of interest. I have found motivation and reason though now.
The advice on the forum has seriously pushed me towards a decision though, and I have managed to enroll myself on a Mathematics (with mechanics), full A level course at the local college, studying the fasttrack version which is done in a single year. It will be tough but my aim is to study well, and also try and study a lot of basic PPL + pre-ATPL material. I may even be able to work as well.

I have also been slightly pressured towards taking the single year A level by my family who have set aside a fairly large some of money towards my attaining a ATPL CPL/IR.

By preference I am going to enroll on the September 2003 course at Jerez nearer the time.

Maybe the hardest decision because I wouldnt normally have done the A levels.

But heres the example, i turn up to an interview for job, im as good as the next bloke, he doesnt have A levels, i do, maybe it would help, but how knows?

The only reason im doing it I suppose is for the part funding for the training.

One day I may even make it into the pointy end of a jet liner, by god someone would need to stupid to let me near all those buttons!!!!

Good luck my friend.

Wise move,...a year or so extra at your age is nothing and you may well find yourself in greater demand.

However the fact still remains, ... it IS possible without A levels

It makes it an interesting contrast. I guess in the end determination is the best asset.

A-levels are worth it. For some a degree these days - not. IMHO.

If you have decent GCSE and A level grades then the issue of your academic ability ceases to be.

3 years and £10,000 of debt is a big investment - you must be certain of the return to make such a decision.

Personally, I would have been better off without my degree and would have done things differently. Hindsight however is 20/20.

Good memories though!

WWW

Scroggs,

A ridiculous statement!:mad: :mad:

Ive got to do disagree my friend....sorry!

Im now 22 and have just quit a well paid job to start full time training. Ive not got A-levels, but i finished an apprenticeship in IT and ended up on a good number. I also know of people slightly older than me who are probably earning more then most pilots!
Therefore, people without A-levels do get good jobs!!!!!

ZHM,

I dont regret not doing my A-levels and im glad i did an apprenticeship, thus giving me money to fund my PPL,Hour Building and ATPL's Full time.All at 22!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So why not consider an apprenticeship.

Rob

I would advise you do A Levels. The more you have under your belt the better.

As for not getting a flying job with an airline without them...Rubbish. As someone mentioned they know pilots without a single GCSE, I also know pilots without GCSE's, one of whom is a Captain with a major airline flying rather hefty jets.

Academic Qualifications
 

I would like to ask a question about academic qualifications which are required to become an airline pilot.

Here's the situation:

What if someone has 5 GCSE's graded A-C but they arent in english, maths and science but they have got A-C in physiscs at A-level.

Would the airlines be reluctant to accept them because of their lack of grades at GCSE.

Also, apart from Physics and Maths, are there any other A-level subjects which airlines look for.

Thanks

I had:

3 GCSE' at A to C

And some professional qualifications.

I got lucky and my first job is on a 757. No probs at all, but I was lucky. Right place right time.

It is about personality as much as academics!

Firstly: do not multiple-post your question on this (or any other) forum - you just **** people off.

Secondly: do a search using the terms 'qualifications', 'a-levels', or 'GCSEs' and you will find endless debates on this issue.

Academic refresher
 

Hi,

I'm currently having a bit of difficulty deciding my best route for refreshing my knowledge in Physics and Mathematics.

I have completed my PPL and aim to start the ATPL ground school towards the end of this year, but am looking as to how I am going to refresh on knowledge I learnt over ten years ago (currently 29 Yrs old).

I was good with Mathematics, Physics and Electronics at GCSE level. I work in IT at a high level, I'm not by any means stupid (well, not that I'm aware of anyhow!) and I know I'm capable of completing the ATPL course academically. I just don't want to waste time learning Mathematics and Physics whilst trying to learn what I’m really there for! As I understand it, there’s a hell of a lot to learn on the ATPL, so I’m best to get everything else brushed up first, so I can hit the ground running.

There are 2 options available to me that I am aware of:

Option 1 - I know that Oxford are now running two courses aimed at the mature student who has forgotten all (can anyone give any feedback on this?), but it is quite a lot of money (£150 - 3 day Maths; £500 - 5 day Physics).

Option 2 - Hire a private Maths/ Physics tutor, furnishing them with my requirements for revision. Cost approximately £25 per hour.

I have so far, attained a list of subject matter which suggests I need to know the following before I start:

Maths:
Index Notation
Conversion of factions to decimals and vice versa
Pythagoras
Sin/Tan/Cos
Reciprocals
Algebra

Physics:
Basic Magnetism
Simple Electrics
Metal behaviour
Temperatures
Mass and Balance
Friction
Light
Viscosity of Liquids

Chemistry:
Chemical Compositions
Oxidation and burning
----

I would be very grateful if anyone could give me their thoughts and views on the above. Also, if anyone has any particular experiences which have helped them get to where they are now, having been in a similar position, I would also be very grateful.

Many Thanks in advance.
:D

i finished the ATPL's last year at the age of 30.
So haven't been to school for about the same time as you.
Physics/Maths were my stronger subjects in high school and found that a lot of it came back quite quickly.
don't stress about it too much.
If u find u are having any trouble......just get a tutor, as you suggested - for an hour or 2 and i am sure that will b enough.
OR
even cheaper solution - go to the library and take out some books from there.
............its not that difficult, just the sheer volume of material to study that gets you.
Good luck;)

Qualifications
 

Hi all, I am from the UK and i need a bit of advice for my mate. My mate is 23 and he left school at 15 with no qualifications and his dream job is to become a pilot and fly for a airline company. I told him it would be hard getting a pilots job with no qualifications, But he has told me he would go to college and study and get the qualifications needed to be a pilot, But what he wants to know is what is the best subjects to study to become a pilot and at the age of 23 is he to old to be a pilot. Thanks for your help and advice it is very much appreciated.

Best Regards

Hello 147,

If you friend wants to apply for a sponsorhip then most airlines require two or three A-levels. However a lot of people (like myself) did not get sponsorships and payed for their own training with a flying school. eg. Oxford or Cabair.
The flying school's dont require A-levels. They prefer you to have some GCSE's. Maths, English and a Science such as Physics would probably help your friend in the long run.

Secondly, I dont think 23 is too old at all. I know a 747 captain who didnt start doing his ATPL training until he was 43.

It would probably be worthwhile your friend phoning a couple of the flying schools to see what they have to say. Oxford has a career's advisor. I cant remember his full name other than his nickname is Lofty!

You can contact him via this forum:

http://www.oxfordaviation.net/forum/default.asp

Hope this helps!

Qualifications?
 

What sort of 'grades' do I need at GCSE level, I'm in Year 9 at school and about to take my options in February. Which subjects should I take to be in the best position to be a pilot.

Maybe a list like this will help:

Subject Lowest grade
English C
Maths B
.....

Hope you understand

Thanks a lot
Scott Cooper

P.S: also want to start my own airline when I get lots of money!!! (dream)

mmeteesside -

Usually employers look for 5 GCSEs at grades A-C which will usually include passes in Maths and Science. This does depend from one place to the other but it's a fairly common standard. However, don't worry about that too much and try and do as well as you can at all your GCSEs because in a few years the standard may have changed - probably higher than lower!

Choose whichever subjects you enjoy most at GCSE. The ones employers are most interested in are usually the compulsory subjects anyway like Maths, English and Science. Quite often now, those few places offering sponsorships are looking for a couple of A levels too, but don't worry about that just yet.

Also give this website a look. There's a couple of links on there that'll give you more information on how to go about becoming a pilot.

Good luck:ok:

No. 2

mmeteeside,

Maths grade A,
History grade A,
Latin grade A, ......................

sorry, couldn't resist it!! Ignore that as my real advice is below for what it is worth.

One of the main things is what sort of flying you want to do, but lets deal with the simple bit first. Both the military and civil pipelines require a lot of study to achieve the coveted pilot's seat and in that respect I would suggest that Maths and Physics are the most beneficial (some would say essential as much of the information from these is the basis of the more technical exams). Employers generally, not just aviation also like to see English Language. Beyond those 3 main subjects, it really is up to you but realistically you should aim to get grade C's minimum.

I would personally suggest you aim to continue Maths and Physics through to A level, but that is not always realistic as you need to ensure any A levels sat are subjects you do well at. No point sitting the exams if you can't pass them.

Now down to the more awkward bit.

Civil flying:

There are no formal educational requirements for civil aviation, the aim being that the courses you complete in order to get your licences need a lot of study which can be completed regardless of you background qualifications. However, the groundschool element is much more demanding if you don't already have some knowledge of GCSE maths and physics. The biggest problem is that the market for jobs is very competative and a good standard of education is a definate plus, particularly if you are looking to get sponsorship.

The moral of the story thus far is work hard at school and try to ensure you get as many A to C grades as possible. Then complete further education if possible. Some believe a degree is beneficial, but my opinion is that unless it has a direct relevance to a flying career the money and time can be spent more constructively. Don's flak jacket and waits.....................

Military flying:

A different kettle of fish in that the vast majority of pilots are commissioned officers with stipulated educational requirements to enter. They are set quite low from what I remember being 5 GCSE's at A to C including Maths, Physics and English Language. However, I don't personally know of any pilots who didn't have A levels. Quite a high percentage have degrees, but they are not essential. You just have to shine that bit more when competing with graduates for the jobs!! The lowest achademic requirements are to fly through the Army Air Corps. which is the only service which has non-commissioned pilots. The catch is that you cannot join straight off the street as a non-commissioned pilot. You need to join as some other role first and then once in you can transfer over to the Army Air Corps.

The moral of this story is ....................... again to work hard at school. Don't worry though if your grades aren't as good as you were hoping for. You can still become a pilot, but it just becomes that little bit harder. Put the work in now and you will get the rewards you deserve.

Best of luck

Obs cop

PS. my highest qualification is A level Woodwork:ok:

Thanks!
 

Thanks you two, a very informative read! It surprised me when I read that I didn't need a degree!

Thanks again
Scott Cooper