ME & IR questions (inc. renewal)
 

Was just reading through 'Instrument Procedures' in my ATPL notes, and am looking at simultaneous operations on parallel runways. If my understanding is correct, there is no lateral separation provided for Independent Parallel Approaches.

Does this mean then, theoretically, that two aircraft could fly down their ILS's, directly abeam each other, same speeds and same heights (after the aircraft have passed the point where the 1000ft vertical separation is reduced), a mere 1035m laterally from each other - perhaps even closer if both deviate to the inner edges of their NOZ's!?

You could wave at the other passengers at that distance!

PT

NTZ width at least 610m from threshold out to a point where vert sep between a/c < 300m?

Eeek, even less than I thought. I suppose when you put it in context, its over double the vertical separation. Just seems like a v small lateral distance.

Usually simultaneous operations on parallel runways are used for take-off on say 24R and landing on say 24L and the scenario you outline would not exist..

Having said that.. in some locations, i.e Palma, they do allow Jet traffic to approach one Runway and the Egg-beaters/GA to overfly the ILS path and make VISUAL approaches onto the parallel runway.

I would stress that this only occurs in visual conditions as it is not unusual to get TCAS "traffic" alerts on the approach.

One might get a bit phased if bothe a/c had to initiate a missed approach at the same time!:ok:

Hmmm, as I understood it, the scenario is quite possible. As for the missed approaches, apparently the paths have to diverge away from each other by at least 15 degrees. Scary!

ME & IR Renewal
 

Does anyone know how long before your IR expires can you renew it and still get it to run for a year from the original expiry date? If it is in Lasors I can't seem to find it...

Thanks

Three months.

Why would you want to have it run from the original date?im asking this because mine is expired too,i think it is better to have it run from the new date,this way it lasts longer.i would like to ask also how long after the issue of the medical class one can someone renew his IR?Would it be ok to fly 3 years after the issue of medical,i believe the medical will still be valid for private flying or exam purposes.

Mine isn't expired, which is why I want it to run from the original date

Class I medical isn't required for an IR, only for the CPL

A Class I medical isn't required for a CPL - Class II is.

Why would you want it to go from the original date? If your 6 months hasn't yet expired you can still renew it quite easily, if you wait 6 months more, being a total of 1 year without renewing, than you have to re-take the test with an examiner.

Why not just go renew it and have it good for another 6 months rather than start from the original date?

FL050,

We were talking about the JAA rules here in UK (Europe) which require a Class 1 for CPL holders to carry out the privilages of their licence. A Class 2 Medical is required for PPL holders under JAA rules.

The easy way of thinking is Class 1 for all professional flying, Class 2 for all Private flying.

We do not have a Class 3 medical since JAA started and thus PPL's have to have at least a Class 2 medical. A class 2 is NOT sufficient to carry out privilages of a JAA CPL or ATP.

Under the FAA rules (which I presume you are talking about), one has three categories of medicals. Class 1 for ATPL privilages and this runs for 6 months from the date of the original medical, Class 2 for CPL privilages and this runs for 12 months from the original date of medical and Class 3 for PPL privilages which run from the date of original medical to 24 or 36 months depending on age of holder.

Hope this helps.

Ahh ok. I was thinking you were referring to that as well. Sorry.

Hmm
 

Right, back to the original question.

My IR expires in June 2006.

If I renew it in March 2006 will it run for 12 months from June or will it run for 12 months from date of renewal?

I know you can renew for instance a Class I medical before it expires, and it then runs for 12 months from the original date of expirey, so does the same apply to the IR?

FL050 - not sure what you are refering to with 'your six months...' but anyway, my IR is still valid so I don't need a retest...

Here's an idea, why not ring/email the CAA. Make them do some work for their hefty fees!
I know its a painful exercise but at least you will be getting it from the greedy horse's mouth.

If your IR expires on 1st June 2006, if you renew it on 2nd March (3 months prior to the renewal) it will now expire on 1st June 2007.

It is a bit like how the medical works, you can renew it before the expiry but it is renewed as if you had the exam on the day of expiry.

IR revalidation
 

The IR can be revalidated up to three months before the expiry date of the current one and the new rating will run from the expiry date of the old one. If the test is done before the old one lapses it is called a revalidation. If the IR has lapsed then the test is a renewal. In either case the retest can be done by any CAA approved IRE. The test format is identical. Incidentally, it is often the case that the ME Class Rating is also due to expire at the same time as the IR, possibly earlier depending on when exactly the ME Class Rating Skill Test was done. Since the majority of IR examiners are also Class rating examiners it can be cheaper to combine both tests in one flight. Obviously the flight will be a little longer than just the IRT, but it will certainly be shorter and cheaper than doing two flights.

Class one medicals last for 12 months if the holder is under 40 years of age and 6 months for geriatrics like me who are over 40. The type of licence (ATPL or CPL) is irrelevant in this respect. I am assuming here that the holder is exercising the privileges of his/her licence. The medical can be revalidated up to 45 days before the validity of the previous one expires and the validity will run from the expiry date of the old one.

Hope this helps

ATPL revaildation
 

I'm in the US with a JAR/CAA ATPL issued in Sep 2001 and with an expiry
this September. Does anyone know what is involved in renewing or revalidating this while in the US? I haven't flown in the UK since then and I would hate let it lapse. Suggestions?

Dude are you sure a valid medical is not required for the IR?Does that mean i can fly with an examiner for IR renewal without having my medical valid?

Euro champ, sorry I wan't clear, I meant a Class I medical isn't required to use an IR, i didn't mean to imply to that you don't need to have a medical to use it.

As it happens I know that technically a PPL skills test candidate does not have to have a valid medical as long as the examiner is happy, and makes sure that the student knows that even if he passes he cannot fly without a medical...

I've a feeling you probably could revaildate/renew your IR without a medical but don't quote me!

machonepointone, thanks for that.

IR renewal
 

Just did a jet type rating, does anyone know if that also counts for IR renewal?

When you receive/collect your licence back from the CAA (after you forked out £100 for the privilege), the page "ratings to be revalidated" will mention "737 EFIS (or -NG, or A320, or whatever you did your type rating on)/IR".

In other words, your IR will be specific to turbine aircraft, therefore it will NOT renew/revalidate your MEP/IR. For that, there is no substitute for renewing your IR on a MEP aircraft, or an approved sim (typically an FNPT II).

While I can't point to the exact paragraph of LASORS, I got that a couple of days ago from AFT's CFI, who happens to know LASORS backwards (sad, isn't it?)

Cheers :cool:

ME & IR Renewal
 

Hello Everybody

I HAve UK JAA licences but Im a danish citizen and live i DK. My SEP and IR/ME are about to expire and I need to revalidate them - I have emailed the CAA 3 times with no answer so now I have turned to you guys.

The SEP class rating requires that I have flown 12 hrs the last 12 months og have had a PFC within tha last 12 months also - I meet these requirements - but its the administrative part Im strugling with - I assume the CAA in UK need some kind of paperwork in order for me to have the SEP class ratin revalidated for another 2 yrs right ?

Last time I had it revalidated by P. Thompson he filled out some paperwork and sent it off to the CAA and he signed my rating-sheet in my license

What do I do now as Im in Denmark - whos gonna fill out the paperwork or can I do it my self and send copies of my logbook and latest PFC along with it to the CAA who will then approve this ??

please help

Jannik

Coincidence? Scary.

Anyway, Jannik, you CANNOT sign your own licence page - you have to find a JAA examiner and get them to sign the page BEFORE the expiry date for the SEP.

They are required to do this, free of charge, if you can show them log book evidence of having met the "last 12 months requirements" of which you speak. (12 hours total in SEP, at least 6 of them in command, at least 12 take-offs and landings, either one hour with a JAA qualified instructor OR any fixed wing flight test (the MEP for example)).

YOU AS AN INDIVIDUAL are responsible to ensure that this is done BEFORE midnight on the day of expiry listed in your licence or your rating will lapse and you must take a flight test with an examiner to renew it. YOU are responsible for sending the correct form to the UK CAA even though the last one was sent for you - to make sure it got there. http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FORSRG1119.PDF

For either the MEP or the Instrument Rating (IR-SPA-ME) - you must take a test every 12 months - so it doesn't matter if it expires, as the test will renew them.

If you have any more questions ASK before the expiry date of that rating!!!

I would think it is ok to renew the IR on a plane without medical.From what i know you dont need a medical to fly the simulator,i dont see why you need the medical to fly the plane when you will have someone else on board who will be the PIC.

I just asked CAA about medical requirements when doing a flight test for an IR renewal and they told me that the Medical doesnt have to be valid when conducting a skill test because the examiner will be PIC and use his medical.
Im trying to find this information in the JAR but i cant find it,anyone knows where i should look?

Thanks for your help!!!

ME/IR questions
 

My question for anyone who might know is:

If I do the single engine JAA CPL, and then the multi engine IR, does the multi engine rating transfer to the CPL, or is a separate rating and flight training course required?

I already hold an FAA CPL ME-IR.

JS3

When you complete your CPL application form you are asked whether you want the CPL issued for s/e aircraft or m/e aircraft.

You can tick both boxes if you want it issued against both ratings. The CAA may, or may not, charge you an extra £100 if you want it issued against both.

You will have an SEP class rating by virtue of the fact that you have done a s/e CPL.

You will have to do a JAA MEP test to convert your non-JAA MEP to a JAA one. This should be done before your IR skill test.

Linda

You need the multi-engine rating to do a ME IR - so your sequence would probably be CPL - MEP - IR. The MEP rating will of course be valid on your CPL.

When renewing the IR every 12 months, you normally renew your MEP rating in the same checkride - I don't know if you can do your IR skill test and MEP skill test in one single test, adding both MEP and IR at the same time.

If you have to go through an approved CPL course, there is an option to do the CPL in a ME and do a single skill test for CPL and ME rating. This saves a few flying hours.

C.

No, you must have completed all of the training for the MEP before commencing the multi-engine flying on a MEIR course. There is a difference.

The CPL is a licence. Multi Engine Piston, Single Engine Piston, Instrument Rating are ratings that are added to a licence.

If you hold a CPL and then do your MEP rating, the MEP rating is added to your CPL. The actual MEP course is the same regardless of the level of licence held.

And billie bob to clarify your comment. You need to have completed and passed your MEP rating prior to sitting the IR test. However you only need to have completed the training for a MEP rating prior to starting the IR course.

So when you get your CPL what do you do with your PPL ? exchange it, bin it, file it ?

I still have mine.
They ask you to transfer the ratings page - but it basically get superseded by your Commercial...then it will expire...so your commercial will be the only valid licence you have.

ME/IR Revalidation
 

Hi all, got to revalidate my ME/IR asap as theres a job relying on it! Ran out of validity July '05. Any ideas where to get it done quickly (and cheaply!)? I'd prefer to do it in a sim, but cost is number at the moment.... paying for type rating with airline once I've got this sorted! I'm in the south and am thinking about bournemouth...

Any ideas would be appreciated, thanks BBear

Check you can do it in the sim (every other test must now be in the aircraft). Last I saw the BCFT sim was still the cheapest FNPT2 around.

I believe flightpass at exeter has a sim that can be used to fully renew an IR....unless the rules have changed.

i'm pretty sure IR revalidations can be done on fnpt2, does anyone know any different?

When I did my last renewal in the FNPT2, I was informed that every alternate renewal / revalidation has to be done in the aircraft. So if your last renewal was done in the sim, the next one will have to be in the aircraft, I am not sure from which date this rule applies.
(sorry, just realised Send Clowns has already stated this)

So if your previous renewal/ revalidation was done in the aircraft then yes you can renew in the sim.

Yes, its alternate years

Just did mine today in the FNPT2 - totally knackered now!!

Does the renewal in the sim still allow you to renew your IR-SPA-ME rating even if your MEP class rating has expired?
I pressume you'll have to do a seperate MEP check flight in order to do the IR renewal in the a/c the following year??