Egnatia flight college
 

Greetings captains, has anybody heard about Egnatia flight school in Greece I have just looked at the price and it is unbelieveable you can do the integrated course which includes accommodation and all the other bits and bobs at under 30,000 pounds can I please get feedbacks from possibly ex- students of this school or from anyone of what they think of this school. I was thinking of going to Cabair but at this price and location who can argue with it, all assistance will be much appreciated, thank you in advance.:)

its a new school that just opened last month so there are no x students. i am considering it myself, i am going on on a two day visit to the school to see if its as good as it sounds..

Just a quick warning: last time this school was mentioned, there was a flurry of new registrations to sing its praises. One instructor even identified himself while attempting to advertise the school, and the whole thing appeared highly orchestrated - as the IP addresses confirmed.

I will not tolerate covert advertising. You want to advertise, you pay. That's how we keep this site free for members. If you want to put genuine information in the public domain, please go ahead. But remember, I will be watching...

Scroggs

Scroggs, 'warning' ??!!?? :confused:

Where did this come from? Egnatia Aviation does not use cheap tricks (no need to), and please note that we DO advertise in this forum (keep looking at the top right corner). Some very srtong words in your message ('highly orchestrated' etc) with no apparent reason. Have we touched something here?

If one of our instructors did write here once is not a crime and they are entitled to. Remember that intructors are pilots too, they do have an opinion and they were members and contributors to this forum before they became Egnatia Aviation employes. We will never encourage or prevent one of the company employees to share their personal views.

Go easy on the new guys - let people write about us, that is the only way for the members of this forum to find out what we are all about. :ok:

George
Egnatia Aviation

gcolyer

All emails that make it do get an automated response, therefore your email must not of made it?

Please feel free to email me direct.

[email protected]

George there's a fine line between giving information and cultivating trade, and it was crossed on the previous thread. It's a cross we have to bear; whether through simple over-enthusiasm or just a desire to get something for nothing we frequently see posts in which individuals - be they FIs, managers or even students - try to promote their school rather than simply inform. Where this occurs (and even where we simply suspect it's occurring) we will edit or remove the posts. That's what happened last time.

I'm quite happy for school owners or FIs to post helpful information so long as it doesn't fall into the category of advertising, and so long as it's obvious who is posting and what their association with a school is. How do I judge whether it's advertising? Simple - if it appears to promote one school over others, and the poster seems to be associated with the school, I'll treat it with suspicion. I don't give benefit of the doubt.

There is an established core of recognised and overt FIs and school principles who post here to the benefit of all Wannabes, whatever establishment they attend, and this I welcome. Those who wish to encourage trade in the open forums I will not welcome.

Scroggs

Well Scrogg all I am asking is for simple advice on my well earned saved money that I am to invest into a flight school in order to fulfill my dream as a commercial pilot and let me assure you I have nothing to do with the school thank you very much, I find your comments to be very un-helpful, thanks.

Well I have actually called one of the guys at egnatia and they seem to be very professional and with very high standards. I think that also the price they are offering their program is very good. The outfit looks very good.

As I have posted in another thread I am a little bit worried about the Greek bureaucracy, lack of organisation, corruption. Generally speaking the people that works at the HCAA and who are employed by PASOK.

Ritzer, I am well aware you have nothing to do with the school. My comments are not aimed at you. Equally, I have no reason to believe that this is anything other than a good school with a desire to give a service that people demand - and make a profit, of course! It's that last bit that tends to get in the way of unbiassed information, unfortunately, but that affects all commercial establishments.

Scroggs

does anybody if there is a selection test that you need to pass before you are accepted into the school, thanks.

why don't you contact the flightschool?

The speak perfect english and they are more than willing to answere your questions.

I'd also consider going to Egnatia.

My only concern is having to convert my existing UK license to a Greek license. Is there a flight test for this or just a paper application?

Also, at the end of your CPL/IR, you will hold a Greek license. I know its a full JAA member state, but what are the implications for working in the UK? I presume you must convert the Greek license to a UK CAA issued license, and what is the process for that, another skill test back home or just another paper form to fill in? Will the UK CAA insist on anything else, like doing an IR validation at a UK FTO?

Since most of Egnatia's students are probably going over from the UK, this entire process really does need to be explained on their website so that nobody has any false impressions about whats involved.

--
Unstable_Aloft

Its a very easy process. You send in an application to the U.K along with the appropriate fees and you will get U.K CPL/ME/IR.

But the opposite will most likely give you plenty of headaches. UK license to Hellenic CAA. Then you are going to know the meaning of Greek bureaucracy :}

But on the otherhand maybe the school will take care this for you but I don't know. If not....May the force be with you, Luke.

This is a general warning and not necessarily aimed at Egnatia at all. In fact lets refer to them as [insert name of any new flight school start up].

For those of us that have been around a bit longer and perused these boards over the years there have been many sad stories of wannabees who have paid up front and trundled off to lord knows where in search of that ever elusive bargain. I can tell you it doesn't exist. You pay for what you get.

If you go to a school that is "supposedly" selling at rock bottom prices then you need to be asking why? Is it being economical with the truth about what is and isn't included in the price list? Could it be underpaying its staff and therefore running the risk that they might head for the hills leaving you high and dry? Maybe the fleet are so old and battered (thereby more chance of going tech) that their capital costs are so low? Who knows.

Perhaps it is just a simple case of discounting to get the first batch of students through. Well you might be okay IF another batch of wannabees comes through the door whilst you are training (paying more than you of course) so that the bills can get paid since the school will be running at a loss in start up mode if it really is so cheap.

So you need to ask yourself some fundamental questions:-

- do you want to risk your hard earned on a school with no training history, no reputation in the industry, no financial history to ensure its solvency (eg: audited financials)

- who are the owners, who are the instructors, how can you determine what the quality of the training will be with no history and no students to ask?

AND the main one is - will it be around in a years time when you are finishing off your integrated course or will you have to go through the pain and financial head ache of changing schools and converting licences.

Scroggs, if you feel this is advertising, please remove it at your discretion.

Potkettleblack, interesting that you have picked on the Egnatia thread to air your views, however you did state it was not directed at us?

I will answer the concerns you have raised though:

Prices: these are standard prices than are not just an initial offer, we can be cheap due to having our own maintenance, diesel aircraft & we have the pleasure of enjoying the HCAA fees, which are considerably cheaper than the UK CAA. Everything is included in the price except VAT.

I’m an instructor that has re-located from the UK, therefore im being paid quite well thanks, as for who are the owners, x2 Greek guys who did live in the UK, one of which is a pilot, feel free to come visit them, they're nice guys.

Fleet: All aircraft are either BRAND new, or 1-2 years old.

Company: has just invested years of there time and allot of cash, they will be around for a long time.

Basically, a new school will always come under fire as to whether or not they are trustworthy, reliable, honest etc, all schools were once under this scrutiny, time will tell and Egnatia's reputation will be built during this.

Anyone is welcome to visit to see what’s on offer, an open door policy shows we have nothing to hide, so come see?

Dave Hall
FI, Egnatia

I agree with general point that Potkettle is making.

May I suggest everybody going to a new school to Pay As You Go. This might cost a little bit more but in general is the cheapest insurance.

Maybe an idea to think about Egnatia Instructor?

I think Egnatia is getting a bit of unjustly harsh treatment here, I know a couple of large companies involved with them who have only good things to say about the set up. I've seen some of their aircraft before they were delivered (the Brand new Diamonds) and I believe the ground training system is being set-up by a leading UK ATPL ground school provider who will definitely provide a very high standard of knowledge.

Looooong haul's advice is sound but applies to any flight training done anywhere (including the likes of OAT and FTE) as many companies in the aviation industry (especially in this sector) have gone "bump" in the night.

If your interested in going there, do some research, visit the school, speak to the instructors and students, go home (don’t make the decision on the spot) and if your happy...sign up. Make sure you visit a few schools and don’t go for price, go for quality of training.

I would make the point that I don’t know any of the owners, students or staff at Egnatia (and ive never even been to Greece ;) ) im just trying to add a little balance to what I feel is an a bit of an unfair bashing.

Old school vs new school?
 

I would agree with some of what potkettleblack has said, however whether a school has been around for a while or is a new setup should not be a deciding factor.

Some schools have been around for years and years, yet I hear and read bad comments about things like their level of customer service, aircraft availability, lack of communication/organisation etc. all the time. So they've been around quite a while and still struggle to get things right!

Also some of these charge inflated prices based on the fact that they paste airline logos all over their brochures and website, and they seem to charge what they want simply because they have been around a while.

(Please note the above are general comments, not aimed at any specific school).


I can think of deffinate advantages of going to a new setup. The owners/operators would have spent a great deal of time and money to get it off the ground, they will probably have enthusiasm and a willingness to get things right by the bucket load. They may also have newer aicraft. Instructors would probably have to be well paid in order to ply them away from their existing jobs into what could be a risky venture?
They will be grateful of your custom, not like some where you have to grateful to them for taking you on.


Never go for an FTO simply because it is cheap. But don't just look at the cheap places and ask "why is it so cheap, whats the catch?".
If a place looks expensive, I have to ask "OK, what extra am I going to get for my money?" and "what are they going to give me/do for me what a cheaper place can't". After all, this is an expensive business we're in, and if you are to pay more you should certainly expect more.


Finally, Mercenary Pilot is right, never take anybody else's word for it, go and visit a place and take time to think things over before taking the plunge.

Is it possible to pay for the 0 - fATPL course with an ESCROW account and still avail of the discounted price? Egnatia seem very good value for money, working out at about the same price as a typical modular course but with accom. included. It depends on the sort of discount you get from paying up front really. Remember there is 19% VAT to be added to the price on the website. Is there anyone who has recently trained with Egnatia or is currently over there who would like to share their experiences?

Loooong Haul

Could not agree more, the "pay as you fly scheme" is what we run, if people wish to pay in advance, that is there choice, you will not be penalised for paying as you go.

Dave

Completely agree that pay as you go is great but its only half the battle. Nobody wants the hassle of transferring training records or countries and licencing authorities for that matter should the unthinkable happen.

As already mentioned, in today’s market ANY school is vulnerable to market forces and may go bust, even the big established shiny schools.

We can only offer people what we have got, as can all schools, no business has intentions of going bust, but it can and does happen.

A new school has strong initial financial backing as a contingency should students not come straight away, an established school relies on a steady flow of students, who is more susceptible to financial pressures then should students not walk through the door?

I would say do as people have mentioned, go see whichever school you fancy, talk to staff/students there, and then make your own decision.


Egnatia is here to stay.

Dave
FI, Egnatia

I actually agree with some of your points although not your financial logic which is way off the mark. My experience of start up businesses as a whole is that they are generally under financed. Show me a business where the owners are willing to front up with enough cash to sit on their hands for a reasonable period of time bleeding cash with little or no custom coming in. It just doesn't happen.

On the other hand a mature business is generally in a much stronger position. It has an existing customer base, benefits from word of mouth and possibly repeat business. It should be generating sufficient positive operating cashflows which accumulate over time to yield a healthy bank balance. In dry times this gives them a buffer to pay the overheads and keep the creditors at bay.

I agree that the big shiny schools are just as susceptible to going under as your school. The big difference is that they have an established position in the market and a brand name. Some would say their brand value is synonomous with certain qualities expected in top notch pilots others (generally those who didn't train there) beg to differ. A large portion of their capital outlay has already taken place over the years resulting in a lower annual spend whereas in a startup situation you will appreciate it is a highly cash draining time. The upshot of all this though is that there seems to be a never ending stream of business that are happy to pay their prices and in return enjoy these supposed benefits. Thats where they can be distinguished from a start up.

The point of all this is that with a history of trading it is relatively simple to get "some" comfort (note the some) over the financial security of a business concern. With a start up you don't get that unfortunately even with fuzzy logic.

I understand and agree with several of your points, and do understand where you are coming from with regard to most new businesses, however, I do know the owners of Egnatia well, and know the commitment and financial backing they have, that is where my statement came from.

I guess we will agree to disagree and let time tell? Please feel free to call into Egnatia and visit, you can get a better picture of a company in 2 minutes once there than hours of studying brochures and chatting on forums.

Dave
FI, Egnatia

Egnatia Aviation
 

Hi all,
IAny more info about this school??
Thanks

Egnatia Information
 

Hi
I'm a current student at engnatia, been here just over two weeks now.
Not sure what exactly yo are looking for but i'll give you any info I have about the school.

The school in very new, only started few month back but the structure is very good, instructores are experienced and very good. school staff are very nice and will go out of their way to help.
The syllabus is JAA and we follow UK material so nothing different than Uk schools there!

The school building is newly renovated and very modern, WiFi for student also available.

Fleet is DA40-TDI and DA42 all very modern not more than a few years old, well the DA42 is brand new, just arrived on sunday.

The prices are great, cheapest you would get in Europe. and we have just found out we dont need to pay the VAT as advertised on the website.

location is fantastic, great weather, friendly locals etc

any questions just ask!:)

Do you have any information on the JAA ground school ??

Schedule,start dates, and time needed to pass all 14 exams .. they advertise 6 months Fulltime for everything.

If you hold a PPL already you can start the ATPL ground school every two months
the next start date is 11th of september, and yes it is about 6months in total excluding two weeks christmas holidays.

Im interested in the 2007 schedule .. pref. January ...
hope they start at the end of the month in January.

How many students are attending the school as we speak? and how many are expected starting Sept?

GrkPilot
I would suggest you contact the school for information on next years start dates and student numbers.


Noor

Modular in Greece?how liable?
 

Well,the last few days I've been looking at the Egnatia web site,and I've contacted the academy regarding the ab initio programme!I've thought it was an integrated training,they call it "structured modular"!now my Question is,to anyone who knows by experience,how likely am I to come back to the UK after attending this program,and get a Job in a major UK airline such as BA,been myself a low hour cadet from a brand new academy that they probally dont know much about and finaly,from a "structured modular" background??Honestly I quitte like what I saw on the site,new aircraft,good facilities,weather is fine as I've been to Greece before and the financial outlay is really atractive,but should I leave my job as an Cabin Crew for British Airways,leaving all the benefits we have knowing that after the 18 months I'll strugle to get a job because is written "modular.." in my cv,plus low hours,and not the"OAT" logo in my performance reports??do you think the airlines here will consider the fact that I'll finish my modular training at the same pace and consistence of an integrated course elsewhere?

Classic modular Vs Integrated question that has been beaten to death on PPRuNe for many years?

Difficult to answer anyone’s fears on this, guess it's down to personal preference? If you do the course integrated does this mean you are guaranteed a job?

Good luck with your decision.

EI

Nope. Not even in the days of the BA cadet were you guaranteed a job. Maybe the chances of you getting a job if you follow the integrated path is greater than modular but this is open to much debate. Do your own research.

Anyway, how long does it take to complete your 0-fatpl course? and i have noticed there is no MCC offered? so i will have to complete this once i get back to the uk if i choose to attend....

:ok:

hi, how difficult would it be to get a jet job in the UK with the likes of ryanair or easyjet after graduating in greece?? also where would you do your MCC and type is you had to? would there be a need of conversion? would airlines look less favourably at a candidate who got his license in greece?? I have looked into oxford and done my assessment there and really liked it, but as your all aware it is very expensive and i dont wnt to strain myself with such a substantial loan and possibly having to take a further loan for a type. thanks
thanks

job after egnatia
 

Hello Aftab
I had a very similar delima like urce I've been to oxford and liked it very much but i decided to come to egnatia instead.
As regards to the licence you get, its jus as good as a UK becasue its a JAA, some airlines might look down at you just because they dont know the school e.g. the likes of BA
but i'm sure egnatia will start to build up its reputation, even though it is a new school it has few IR,CPL students who will finish within the next few months and they can give the airlines an idea of how good egnatia is!

If you dont aim too high, I mean aim for the likes of easy jet or ryanair for your first F/O job, what you can do is apply to the likes of PARC aviation or www.bfsaa.se or even CTC for your MCC and then if you do well they will help you get an interview so they get your Type rating business;)

good luck whatever you decide to do.:ok:

Noor

You can convert the HCAA license to a UK issued one should you wish to with ease.


http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FORSRG1136.PDF

EI

No VAT????
 

Captain N,

In one of your earlier post you mentioned that you don't have to pay VAT. Can you expand on this? Are you telling me that I can do the course for £30K including accommodation?

yes you can do 0 to fATPL for £30k including accomodation

IF you choose to do only part of your training then VAT applies.

good luck;)

Ballistic: there are some European countries (Denmark, Greece, Spain come to mind) where flight training is not subject to VAT. Unfortunately, the UK is not one of them :* !

Cheers :cool: