Loans for funding flying training.
 

Having been accepted on the integrated fatpl course at Jerez, I now need to get some money sorted to fund it!

I'm in full-time employment (20k income a year approx) and my parents would be prepared to secure the loan with the house.

Any thoughts or advice on what the better option may be?

My personal experience of Spain says avoid BBVA and Banco Santander like the plague.

Barclays in Jerez are pretty helpful and of course have a UK arm. Normally, I would steer clear of Barclays, but it says a lot about the Spanish banking system when I say that Barclays are better than any Spanish bank!

HSBC (With Apologies)
 

Firstly my apologies for opening yet another finance thread, however my question is specific and I cannot resolve it by seraching etc.

Basicaly, applied to HSBC for £30K to further my training, under the PSL, which has up until now been sold to me as being unsecured, HSBC in Sheffield now have rung to tell me that yes they would be delighted to offer me the loan if my parents are willing to give their house to the Hong-Kong and Shanghai banking Corporation for the duration of the loan.

They are not willing to do this as I am most unfortunately not an only child, :{. Up until this point they kept telling me it was an unsecured loan and there would be no problem. So now I'm just wondering if anyone here with more experience of HSBC could help me.

Cheers

Chris

Bluesteel705,
I went to the HSBC in Leeds a few years back to enquire about a £40K PSL loan; at that stage I was making enquiries. They said that the loan must be secured on the house.
If I remember correctly, I think that they said that £10K was the maximum that they would lend unsecured. However, people on this forum have reported borring much more than £10K unsecured. I think the branch you choose to visit is key. Apparantly (from this forum), the Oxford branch seems to be the one to visit.
Incidently, I didn't take the loan in the end.
POL

Ploe is dead right I think. Some branches seem more in tune than others. Perhaps we should have a sticky on which branches will lend unsecured!!!! For what it's worth Chester wanted security

Thats very true. I'm not sure if the size of the branch is key though. My local branch in Chesterfield (Which is just of being a city) were a little clueless as to the PSL and even told that they could only match whatever I out in 50/50, this was after they phoned Delhi to make sure they could accept Pilots.

Sheffield on the other hand were much more optimistic, apparently they deal with this most weeks, (Must be a lot of pilots from Sheffield???) they just seemd to have changed track all fo a sudden

:ugh:

Yes. It does matter alot who you speak to. Before going to Britannia cadet selection a few years ago (which I didn't get!) I managed to get the Holmes Chapel manager to agree to lending me 15000 pounds unsecured if I got on the course.

That pales into insignificance compared to the amount being lent to, for example, the CTC cadets unsecured. The level of selection that both Britannia and CTC use may have something to do with that though...

http://www.pprune.org/forums/post1930578Hi Muppet hopefully I can shed some light on the situation?


I was accepted for the June 27th start date but couldn’t make it due to funding and work circumstances (I work in sales I got a bonus that my company wouldn’t give me if I said I was leaving). Anyway with June start date past and a bonus in the bank I’m looking at getting on the next course.

Initially applied to HSBC with what the manager said was an excellent business plan (it should have been to I had help from an expert!). I finished Uni 3 years ago so everything I have earned has been paying off loans, credit cards & over drafts etc up to the amount of 12K so not much saved! Anyway basics of my loan were focused on my current job which is very well paid with qualifications to re-enter it if flying went tits up, security from my dad in the way of a bond (amount of which is more than what was applied for or house which ever they preferred) Medical, acceptance letter from FTE forecasted earning etc…………………..

however they wouldn’t entertain it as I wasn’t putting enough capital into the proposal, but said if I met them 1/3 of the way they probably would!

This gave me two options

1. Apply to a different branch (even the guy in Chester said different branches make different decisions)
2. Try a different Bank
3. Try and get your parents to take out an interest only mortgage

I have tried BBVA as my friend has said it’s a good deal, I am still waiting for an outcome, I have explained all I know about the BBVA loan on this thread

http://www.pprune.org/forums/post1930578

Need anymore help PM me

And hopefully I will be in Spain soon

Flying on Empty

Which branch in Sheffield? I just had a most helpful exchange with the mgr at one.

h-r:)

Thanks chaps.

F.O.E. hope to see you in Jerez soon! :ok:

Sheffield Church Street, the one opposite the cathedral, the interior looks like something out the Titanic ;)

Try Woodseats. The Mgr there now understands a bit more about aviation,

May give a result, maybe not ...

h-r:)

HSBC Loans no more!
 

Just had an meeting with hscb bank who kindly informed me that they are no longer offering professional studies loans for aviation training! could not believe it!

they changed the rule just on friday and have removed pilot training from their web site on PSL's.

anyone know any more or what other banks are offering the scheme ket me know!

all the best.

steve...

Does that mean I don't have to pay back the big dollars I owe them? :D

In the long run this will probably reduce the amount of low hour pilots in around 2 years time, so maybe good news for job-seekers, however if I hadnt only JUST had my £32k approved today (Applied a few weeks ago) I may be a little less optimistic. Was going to wait till August to apply as well.

Timing does indeed appear to be everything.

As a matter of interest did you have to put up security for your loan ?

Oh man, spent a week arguing over this, in the end I won ;)

Basically I took them my forms from the RAF IOT Selection centre saying I passed the aptitude tests for Pilot, (Failed Eyesight for that though) WSO/ Fighter Controller etc and they let me off the security.

This was a bit of a gamble as though they seem to realise that recruitment is a little slack for the aviation industry, they dont seem to realise that currently its nonexistent for the RAF.

Has its good and bad sides though, luckily if I went back to my current job and lived like a monk I could repay the loan on time. So not as bad as it could be.

I spoke to them yesterday? wasn't told that! then again tho lending for a PSL was always at the managers discretion. mmmm, hope my application aint getting binned!

now thats interesting!

Pah! When I saw this I just burst out laughing - you either laugh or cry :) but I'm not the sort of weed who blubs just because somebody gives him a slice of rabbit pie instead of birthday cake. Baaah!

The last contact I had with them, they were very relaxed about lending over £20k - mind you I have put in over £30k of my own money in so far. I will be meeting with them shortly and will add any information I can.

I do hope the decision can still be made at branch level because those I dealt with seemed knowledgeable and even, dare I say it, had an optimistic view of future recruitment needs.

To others in the same boat - please continue to post any information relating to this.


LF

This is a very interesting development and appears to be a short sighted move by HSBC what with the current/predicted boom in civil aviation.

This will no doubt introduce another barrier to entry for a lot of people into the industry. On the other hand i guess there will be less competition. However, i bet OATS are licking their lips as they still have an agreement in place with HSBC.

Ok, here's what HSBC said to me this morning!

They still offer the PSL in conjunction with OAT only. The max that can be borrowed is 50k, no exceptions which is strange as it dosen't even cover the course costs never mind accom!

To borrow this money you MUST have security in the form of cash, bonds, shares or equity of the value of a whopping 35k or more!

Now if i had a cash deposit of 35k i'd go modular rather than forking out an extra 25k for integrated.

Now i thought OAT were trying to stop those with money being the only ones to learn to fly to trying to give those with the correct apptitude!

I know these are the banks T&C's but you'd think they would try to at least cover course cost as they are now the only FTO the PSL is available for.

kempus

Went to my local hsbc to collect my loan forms.

Manager at this branch said that Cabair are in on the act too. Souds similar to the Oxford situation though. As it has to be done through the branch local to Cabair.

Geez :cool:

CTC I've heard also still get the HSBC loan.

Spoke with several HSBC staff today.

1. They have cancelled the mainstream Prof Studies Loan for people training in the modular system.

2. Advised the only loan routes are via the APP programme @ OAT and CTC McAlpine's training.

3. Everything has to go through the local branches. Staff Member at Oxford HSBC was helpful and knew his stuff. He said the majority of their 'flying' business is APP, but on certain circumstances loans would be offered to those who wished to follow the modular 'Professional Pilot' packages (eg CPL+MEIR+MCC). Criteria for this was not specified, and the applicant would have to get themselves to Oxford for a sit-down with them.
Interestingly, those following a modular course would be subject to slightly worse conditions than APP people...the normal PSL rate is 2% above base, but modular students would be on 2.75%. An arrangement fee applies to everybody.

Staff at my local branch said they got the news as 'a bolt from the blue' (I quote). Apparantly the change in policy has been driven by them getting their fingers burned from a few bad eggs going through then declaring bankrupt.

Personally I think someone in HSBC management has made a poor call. Muddy thinking must be very much in vogue. Arguably the pilot recruitment situation is beginning to show real movement, and well, I refer you to back to the response from the HSBC frontline staff.

I'm not fat, dumb or happy at all with this policy change and think I'll let my boots do the talking.....Of course I'm not suggesting other HSBC mod students do the same :E but its worth recumembering that they won't realise they've made a booby if we all just continue to service our accounts as per.

Think about it.
LF

Makes Sense?
 

Think about it guys.......HSBC are probably yet to generate a decent yeald from all the loans they gave out post 9/11 and are understandably beginning to twitch, therefore no loans to anyone who does not have the backing of OAT and the likes.

I bet it has more to do with unemployed pilots declaring themselves bankrupt and escaping substantial loan payments. Whilst things have improved massively over the last 18 months, it still isn't easy to walk out of flight shool and straight into a well-paid job, so there is still a significant risk to the bank that they will end up with a bad debt.

HSBC again....
 

Hello guys,

A few of you who've been around here a couple of years may remember a post I made about the process I've been through with HSBC and how I'd got on with them.

Well, sadly to say - it's a relationship that's souring very, very quickly. I'm currently in for £18k secured , £18k unsecured and will need about another £13K to finish.

The local branch that initially dealt with my enquiry have been very unhelpful since and things have got very messy. Certain promises haven't been kept and they've even started to take payments on the first £18k secured, even though I'm still drawing down money from the £18k unsecured - even me with my limited financial knowledge realises that this is a bit bizarre for them to let me rob unsecured Peter to pay secured Paul! These payments have started without me even being finished, despite assurances at the outset :( The branch seem very happy to wash their hands of this and I'm finding it very hard to find anyway forward with HSBC.

So, I'm looking to find out branches with people in who know the PSL product and understand how it works. I need to get in touch with someone within HSBC who is likely to listen and at least look at this mess with common sense! If you know of someone or can advise based on personal experience, I'd love to hear from you! PM is fine also.

Incidentally, I'm in the middle of my ATPL's which for some bizarre reason, I'm quite enjoying ;)

Thanks a million,

Bluesky

Maude Charlie,

I reckon you're on the money. From what I have been reading in the papers about debt and the banks obvious nervousness at it. They are now trying to minimise their risk ie exposure to large unsecured loans that may be defaulted on.

The govt is also concerned about the large amount of debt (other than mortgages) that people are carrying.

Blueskyrich,

You mention that these payments have started without you even being finished, despite assurances at the outset. Did they ever put that in writing? If so you have a good case for not paying up quite so soon!!

The written word is what people cannot argue about.. and it's not as hard to get people to listen when you ave written proof.

Good luck mate,
A fellow bank-loather

Personally I want nothing more to do with HSBC,

after agreeing my PSL loan on the 5th of July they rang to tell me that even though they had approved it, they hadnt recieved the memo stating that it was to be discontinued on the 1st. Therefore they were "unable to help me at this time."

After telling me this they hung up without really giving me chance to ask any questions, and its useless to ring them because you cant speak to anyone in the branch just someone in an Indian call centre who tells you to call the branch :confused:

Which has really screwed up my plans.

Looks like the RAF for me now ;)

Oh Bugger. :sad:

Looks like it's going to have to be a normal loan for me then, which means repayments every month.

I've worked out that I could do the remainder of my training for a little over £25K, and most banks will loan that amount fairly easily. If I go much over, then will have to use the flexible friend I guess.

This really is a blow to those of us without rich mummies and daddies. Fortunately though most modular courses (OAT and Cabair excluded) seem to hover around the £30K mark so a loan for £25K and £5K savings or credit card should mean that alot of people can still consider flying as a career, although it does mean that money for the monthly repayments needs to be found during the training course.

However there is one very rich entreprenuer who likes aviation and happens to have a financial company too. Maybe a letter or 10 to him requesting that his financial company offer the type of loan that HSBC has just stopped might persuade his company to offer it. :\

:)

Leezy,

I'm assuming you're talking about Mr Virgin Atlantic himself - the thought had crossed my mind to write to him. Maybe a coordinated effort could be the way forward?

If there's someone who would know how to go about this in the most effective way then I'm sure you'd get plenty of signatures on a petition!! ;)

Steve

Going on VA's Hour Requirements wont this just turn into another A* candidate who can probably already afford it / CTC McAlpineesque thing?

But hell, if it might get me on a plane, count me in. :ok:

I suppose the withdrawl of the PSL loan will be bad news for FTE unless they have a similar agreement with HSBC?

The reason i bring this is up is that i was leaning towards studying at FTE, can anybody shed any light?

From other posts it looks like FTE has a deal with one of the major spanish banks.

You start paying back the loan on the agreed date regardless of job status. So unless you falter they'll be getting their yeild regardless of whether you're sat in a groundfloor office or an office at FL350.

As for guys declaring themselves bankcrupt in order to escape the repayments then it's pretty absurd owing to the fact they require security for loans above certain amounts. Most common form of security is a house, either yours or your parents so declaring bankcruptcy means all that would go bye bye first.

People tend to view those taking bankcruptcy as some sort of easy way out these days. For me to consider bankruptcy would mean my parents losing their house so not an option. Also, consider the financial hardships that follow bancruptcy when it comes to obtaining credit, jobs, mortgage, insurance etc....

Not an attractive option for a budding international jetsetter is it?

VFE.

FTE have a special arrangement with BBVA for loans for the FTE course. You may borrow the full amount of the course, and in either Euros or Sterling. The Euro interest rate was quoted to me a couple of days ago as 2.114%, and the Sterling base rate as 4.75%. Interest on both is 1.75% above base rates. The Euro rate appears significantly cheaper, but you have to weigh this up with the fact that your earnings are likely to be in Sterling and you will need to pay the loan back in Euros if you choose the Euro option, hence the strength of the Euro at the time of repayment is important.

Either way, I think the BBVA package is much cheaper than that offered by HSBC. I was told by Sanjay Vallabh, who deals with all the OAT loans at the Kidlington branch that if FTE wanted to, they too could set up a bespoke loan plan with HSBC, but have not yet done so.

Should anyone require further information, please PM me.

Niraj.

aaarggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh
 

please help!

I am startin a modular as of sept for a CPL. both parts include training in Orlando (which i assume is OAT). lookin to apply tommorow for my PSL - will i be affected by this stupid piece of news? (sorry little stressed after recieving phonecall from cabair asking for 3k deposit then reading this)!!!!

Please help me someone!