Logbook and Logging Hours Questions
 

I have a few hours in my logbook now and am taking lesson as and when i can. I have a mate at work who is a ppl holder and has twins and everything on it. He can hire a small plane for about £60 an hour and has offered to take me up a few times. Now the question....Can i put these hours in my logbook as flying hours...????? Any help or advice will be appreciated, thanks....

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Its not the fall that kills you...Its the sudden stop.....

Hi,

I'm afraid you can only log these hours as a passenger because you wouldn't be 'Under training' as P U/T stands for. You'd need a CPL instructor for that! But hey, those hours would still be fun!

Happy Flying!

FD

Only need an instructor of some sort, not necessarily a CPL instructor! There are some PPL instructors out there. (Me)

helimutt,

I stand corrected Sir, my apologies. I thought that the new JAR rules meant that you had to be at least CPL to be an FI.. but I accept your post. So am I right in thinking that you can still instruct with PPL but you need FI rating also?

Thank you,

FD

I thought that you had to be a CPL to be a FI under the JARs as well...

Helimutt, have you got Grandfather rights from an old CAA PPL/FI or something, or am I wrong about the JARs?

[This message has been edited by foghorn (edited 02 February 2001).]

Under the new JAR regs you can still be a FI without a CPL. However you cannot be paid to instruct, you also have to pass the CPL theory exams and an approved FI course! This would obviously cost a considerable amount of cash, I'm sure that instructing is rewarding in terms other than cash, but I think that most people going this far would complete a CPL and hopefully be a least be paid some form of wage for their hard efforts(I hope so I'm studying for an CPL/FI(R)my self).

Hope this throws some light on the subject, I believe this information is correct as of today but who knows by tommorow?

I wish I could log all my passenger hours ...I'd be chief pilot at NASA today !

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Flying is not dangerous, crashing is

More likely Chief Passenger!!!

Gaps in my logbook
 

I finished my PPL in May 2000 and due to travelling did not do any flying for approximately a year. I am about to start my CPL and have regained currency. Is it likely that this gap of one year in my logbook will disadvantage me in the future, say when applying for jobs?
Many Thanks, Space.

No employer could care less about your PPL flying, or that gap in currency.

What they will study is how current you have kept yourself after getting the CPL/IR (be it instructing/hour building/sim rides/whatever) if you don't land a job immediately.

Two years with no instrument flying isn't going to put you in a good position for a sim check anyway, so make sure you have a plan.

All the best.

Losing your logbook
 

Hi!

I was sitting around discussing what a pilot would have to do if he lost his logbook, and I thought I'd check and see what you all think about this.
Imagine a pilot that keeps 1 written logbook where he, obviously, logs every single flight. Our pilot also keeps an electronic version, but he only keeps track of total time, PIC time, SE time, ME time etc. No individual flights. If he lost his written logbook, could he legally buy a new 'paper' logbook, and just transfer the hours from the electronic one, and start over?

I hope that question made sense!??!

:D

Regional Guy,

If a trainee pilot, i.e pre license issue lost their logbook, then it should be a simple matter of copying the training records into a new book and getting this signed off by the appropriate training school.

Should a license holder lost their logbook, then the flights post license issue could be accounted in the new log book but would need to be accompanied by an afidavit drawn up by a solicitor and signed by the license holder. The CAA will then look at this record and make a judgement as to what they will allow to be credited, bearing in mind they would have seen the original logbook at license issue and have a trend established.

If a commercial pilot loses his/her logbook, then a similar afidavit would be drawn up, but the records are more auditable since all AOC holders have to keep copies of flight duty hours on a monthly basis and some checks would be made.

Should any Pilot just turn up with a new logbook stating a number of unsubstanciated hours, then this would be considered with extreme caution and proberbly not accepted as a true record.

Most sensible Pilots photocopy their logbook on a regular basis just to cover these situations.

Avenger,

First let me say thanks for your reply. :)
I should have stated this earlier, but I was specifically looking for the FAA's view on this. The question came up as a result of me and some fellow instructors sitting around talking about logging flight time. If an instructor loses his logbook, and there is no way to accurately track his previous flight-time, except the electronic log, what can he do?
will a sign statement from this instructor suffice as a legal record showing hours?

Always keep a photocopy of each page as it's completed. And keep the photocopies separately from the log book itself. The chances are you will never need them but it will save a great deal of angst if the worst does happen.

hi!

Thanks to everyone that took the time to reply. :)
BUT, you guys were missing the point here, it was a hypothetical question where our pilot did not have ANY means other than the electronic log of reconstructing his hours... no photocopies, no two seperate logbooks, no complete flight for flight electronic log.

:)

Keep mine in a Chubb safe at home, bit over the top, but would hate to try and construct my log books again.

I would do just what the CAA tell me to ..... just guess how many hours i had (I already have an ATPL).

See their website FAQ.

http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/licensing/faq.asp?faqid=119

Computerized Logbook
 

Does anyone know of a GOOD computerized logbook, designed for the JAR regulations, and able to cope with airline flying.

I want it to be able to work out 28 day summaries , yearly summaries and be able to easily enter often repeated data ie aircraft and destinations and pilots etc.

I can find loads of FAA ones no JAA and would prefer a recomendation from a user.

Ta All

I saw a good software program for the Palm handheld and it can plug into your PC and print out any page(s) or details that would be required - It looks like it is JAA compliant. Do a search since there are some posts on this topic in the past.

I am fed up with my logbook so I can see myself venturing into the computer age before the not too distant future!

Cheers

I have seen the one for the palms, but I want a propper one for the PC. But thanks anyway..

SkyLog Pro is the one I use - accepted by CAA/JAA/FAA

website: www.skylog.co.uk

Better in logbook- night or day?
 

Well i can fly either night or day and have my private and am working on instrument- i have 65 or so hours total with about 5 at night. I enjoy night flying better but what will look better in the future when i try and get an airline job?

It doesn't matter to the employer. However, night hours are usually the thing you need to "unfreeze" your ATPL. (well, that's what I was short of years ago)

Yeah. My ATPL took a couple of years longer to get because of the night hour requirement.

Interesting.....
I've always tried to make every hour count double if not triple.
Meaning try to make every hour crosscountry if not xc night.
Or xc under simulated instrument conditions with a safety pilot.
Try and fill as many columns in your logbook with every single flight. Can be a pain sometimes but eventually it will pay off.
Future employers will not only look at your total time but also how you got it.
Oversimplistic but 1000hrs in the pattern are not the same as 1000 hrs xc. Banner towing over the same beach for 3 months will not give you the same experience level as flying over different terrain. In my experience they will always ask how you got the hours and what did you like doing most/least. Maybe consider timebuilding with a buddy abroad somewhere. Vary the airplane types that you fly. Not that an airline will care about a C172 vs Robin but it shows interest and the ability to diversify. Anything that will let you stand out in the crowd.
Hope it helps.
;) ;) ;)

I agree, fill up as many columns as you can, but I'd say stay away from night until you've more experience. Flying SE at night is really fun, smooth, and you get great views sometimes, but not so fun when you have a problem.....Obviously, you want to maintain night currency and keep your hand in, but I'd keep the long cross-country flights in the 'day' column for a while.

abracadabra

I suspect that the answer to the question may well depend on the country that is issuing the licence!

From where I am now, SE at night = no way! SE at day = a bit iffy!

But then again I sit LHS in a transport aircraft for a large carrier!:D

Yeah, wait till you're on multi's before you really start racking up the night time. I did my original night stuff in a C152 over LA. Thing is, there are so many lights out there that it's almost daytime anyway, and if your engine quits you're landing on the freeway regardless of what time it is. When I moved to the UK it was a little disconcerting to see all the black areas of nothingness.

It's one thing to be frustrated by not having the requisite hours to unfreeze your ATPL, but I bet it's better than trying to trouble-shoot your lycoming at Vglide as you descend into a...field? or is it a forest?

should I turn on my landing light? or keep it off?

abracadabra

How strange. I did my night qualification in Arizona. There were so many black bits, it was very easy to identify each small area of lights. When I moved back to the UK, there were so many lights I couldn't tell which town was which!

Single-engine flying at night is more dangerous than single-engine flying during the day. It's also more dangerous than multi-engine flying at night. But I'd bet it's safer than lots of other things which people do. I know the risks, and, for me personally, I think they're acceptable - especially since I love flying at night. It's just a pity there are so few places in the UK where you can get any decent night hours logged.

FFF
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Jeppesen European Logbook
 

The Jeppesen European Pilot Logbook seems to be the latest and most popular for Commercial pilots, but what I don't understand is , what if you hour build in the states or train there under FAA 141 as well as JAR licenses in the UK, does those hours count?
Or would the CAP 407 be more suitable under these circumstances?
Thanks

best professional logbook?
 

hiya!!

Im after a professional logbook. Can anyone recommend one please? The ones Ive seen are Jeppesen, AFE and Poolies! Which one is the best in terms of layout etc!

thanks

Please check the "Questions" forum, there is a question like yours with a few replies too.

http://www.pprune.com/forums/showthr...hreadid=120506


Ahh i've just noticed it was your post too in the questions forum

How to fill the logbook
 

How do you log when you have done one filght that start during the night and ends during the day? I mean if I call fill bouth boxes (day and night) the time that I have done at each condition. I think that I can but im not very sure.

thanks

Log the total time of the flight and then write how much of the flight that was night in a seperate column.

I would use one line, and split the total time between the two columns. But at the end of the day, it's your logbook, so you can fill it in however you like, as long as it's clear and accurate.

FFF
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Mine has day & night columns so I can log each of the two components on a single line for any given flight.

As with the two above, I use a single row and split the time between columns.

G

jar fcl logbook ?
 

Hi,

Do you need a special jar logbook for cpl/ir training approved by the jaa ?

No, you don't need a "special" JAA logbook, you do need a "normal" JAA approved logbook though.

See LASORS "www.caa.co.uk" (use the search) for the specifications.

You do not have any particular design of logbook and there is no longer any such thing as a "JAA approved logbook". The various 'JAR-FCL logbooks available are copies of the design that used to be contained in JAR-FCL 1.080 and, being in Section 1, was mandatory. Now, however, this has been moved to IEM FCL 1.080 in Section 2, which is Interpretive and Explanatory Material and shows an example only of how a logbook might look.

The UK law relating to the maintainance of a personal flying logbook is spelt out in the ANO at Article 28 and says nothing about the design of such a logbook. Provided that you comply with this law, you do not have to do anything else. It is perfecly legal, for example, to maintain a personal flying log on a computer or PDA if you wish - you are not obliged to have a 'book' at all.

The way that you choose to comply with the law is entirely up to you - you may use whatever design of logbook suits you and the flying that you are doing.