Eyesight...
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel like I am stuck in a position I dont know how to deal with and would appreciate some advice.
I have always wanted to be a pilot. There is nothing else I want to do. Whilst presenting doing a law degree at Uni of Birmingham, as a back up it is clear I am not happy.
I have 11 GCSE at A/B grade and 3 A levels at A grade (Geography/Law/English). I also have other qualifications. However these results do not shadow the fact my eyesight is below that specified by BA. I need some sort of advice about how to achieve my aim including and the next step I need to take.
I am going to a aviation lecture on wednesday in london that i attend yearly. However, my situation is quite different and the lecture does not ever make it clear what I should do. Does anyone know what I should be doing? Cheers.

Speedbird,
Can you please copy me in the details for the eyesight, if you don't mind buddy.


OliverPollard
Can you please e-mail me the details of the annual meeting that you mentioned on wednesday, please. Hope to see you there.

Thanks buddies and I owe you one.
DWHLO?

Oliver - other airlines offer sponsorships other than BA: Aer Lingus, BM, A2K and many others often mentioned on this forum. BA have their own limits which are more stringent than the CAA/JAA for selection purposes, most other airlines just need to see a Class 1 medical and the're happy.

Don't despair! Try the Medical & Health forum for more info, if you haven't yet.

PS Is it me, or eyesight concerns one of the most common queries on PPRuNe? Nothing to do with the fact that we all have computers and interent access, maybe? :)

------------------
...proceeding below Decision Height WITH CAUTION...

Oliver
Don't worry too much. The BA medical requirements are stricter than the CAA's for the sole reason that they are sponsoring you. when i joined the cadet scheme, unaided visual requirements were 6/24 in each eye separately (I think these might have changed slightly now). the interesting thing is however, that when i started my course, there were no fewer than 3 people who did not meet the visual criteria set out by BA. The key seems to be that, as was the case for 2 of the 3, that if you already hold a Class 1 medical, and your eyesight has somewhat stabilised (i.e: very unlikely to get anywhere near the +/- 5 D required for a renewal (this rule might have changed as well)).
My recommendation is to contact BA medical services at Gatwick, and see what they say about the visual requirements. If it comes to the worse, don't forget there are eye exercises you can try which really do improve your eyesight.

And don't forget, if you believe you can do it, it will happen. Good luck.

Eyesight - Help
 

I wondered if anyone could set me straight on the class I medical eyesight rerquirements - I think I fall outside of them, but am not sure why!

What I do know - I have astigmatism with a max +2.5 & -3.0 dioptres. 6/9+ individual and 6/6+ binocular. I think the range is +/-2.0 for a class I for astigmatism and +/-5.0 for myopia.

What I Dont know - is this the case, does it exclude me totally from my class I, if so then why is there a difference between the two ( considering both can be adequatly corrected for with glasses ), do I have any other options. (ie non uk/jaa requirements)

All advice greatfully recieved - there's a dream about to be shattered here!!

Long Final - I suggest you take up the problem thus:
1) With a good optomotrist (optician as they usd to be known), explain that you need corrected vision to the requirements of a CAA class one medical, and they should be able to sort you out.
then,
2) Go and see your local AME, most of them are fighting to understand JAR requirements themselves, and the issue of a class one with regard to eyesight seems to be open to interpratation.
The AME may well refer your case to the CAA medical branch, and obviously they have the power to overide the AME's decision either way.
That said, as an ATCO, I've always found them very helpful and approachable, and they are prepare to work alongside you rather than against you.
Good Luck.

long final

If you are unsure then I would suggest contacting the CAA Optometrist direct (I think his name is Adrian Chorley). There is not a problem doing this and he is very helpful.

If you speak to him and send him a copy of your prescription he will be able to give you an answer.

When I was unsure I did this but unfortunatley I was outside the limits. Luckily I discovered that in OZ (I am originally from 'Down Under') the +/-3 or 5 limits etc are not applied, so I have since done the eyesight test for an OZ Class 1 and passed with an opthalmologist and passed. Heres hoping I get through the medical on Tuesday!!!

DCB

[This message has been edited by dcb (edited 22 February 2001).]

http://www.vectair.flyer.co.uk/img42.gif

Congratulations !

how do u get this one ?

CAA and Eyesight
 

I'm well p*ssed off.
-5.5 each eye so I'd fail the CAA Class 1 medical.

I can never achieve my goal of a UK CPL/IR

Why??? Why???? WHY?????????????????????????

Apparently JAA have issued medical standards for CPL/ATPL, that include any eyesight deviation fully correctable by glasses.

Will the CAA adopt them? Will they heck.They have already made clear they won't.

It's OK of course for (example) US pilots to command their 744's into LHR with eyesight problems that fail the CAA standards.

If the CAA is so worried about this issue and refuse to fall into line with the JAA why don't they ban these pilots? Argument: It's a serious safety hazard.

It's total hypocrisy.

(I have a US Class 1 Medical - and it only cost me 50 quid and a local FAA doctor did it...)

Eyesight...
 

As an absolute beginner I have a million and one questions. I hope some kind souls can give me a bit of guidance.

I wear glasses (slight prob long sight) I have been told this can be corrected easily with laser surgery.

Questions:

1. is "perfect vision" required for ATPL?
2. if yes - do I inform authorties etc. of laser surgery to correct vision?
3. I have seen pilots wearing spectacles (or have I !!)
4. What is the average retirement age of a pilot?

I,ll start with that little lot..hope you can help

Cheers all

32

Hi Borg

You'll be glad to know that you don't need perfect eyesight for a class 1 medical (far from it). That is a myth. Until recently, the limit for uncorrected eyesight was 6/24. You would then need glasses to bring your standard back up to 6/6, but this would not be a problem. I believe that 6/24 is roughly equivalent to being able to read a car number plate from 12 metres. For the latest regulations, which are a bit more complicated, have a look at the medical forum. There are some good posts and links on this subject.

On retirement age, I believe that BA retire their pilots at 50, while 55 is a more common age. I'm not sure if there is an upper limit, but the intervals between medicals become ludicously short after the age of about 60.

Hope this helps.

Pie

Thanks PIE, here comes the serious questions.

Background - I'm 32 years old (a very short career if I retire at 50!!)
have done O.K. in business (so am in a position to pay 35-45k for training without the need to work alongside training)

Left school at 16..(no qualifications)worked very hard in property but always wanted to be a pilot...

GIVE IT TO ME STRAIGHT, DO I STAND A CAT IN HELLS CHANCE?

I know I can qualify (a friend of mine has already gained ATPL) with hard work, but, would anbody employ a 30 odd year old with no experience and no formal qualifications

32

Borg

Use the search facility ( in top right of screen ).

The am I too old?? question is a fairly regular one, and there are lots of thoughts on the subject that you can search through at you leisure.

regards

------------------
Half man, Half jalfrezi.

Borg

I don't want to make any rash decisions on your behalf, so I would suggest that you look at another couple of threads that have been running recenyly. One of them is entitled "How old are you". I have a feeling there are a lot of people in your situation, and the general concensus seems to be that it's fine to start in your early 30's, especially if you have the means to do a full modular JAA course with all the trimmings. If you could afford a type rating, even better, because if you go to the airlines fully qualified, then they don't have to worry about paying back their investment in you. The very worst case scenario, as far as I can see, is that you could end up instructing PPL students. Certainly don't give up though. First job is to get a class 1 medical though. I'd do that ASAP, like by booking it on Tuesday AM.

If you started a new thread along the lines of "32 - Too old to start ATPL?" then I think you would probably get all the answers you needed. (I'm not really the best person to ask, cos I haven't been there yet).

Pie

Final question,

How much would an "average pilot" i.e NOT working for BA expect to earn?

Is it steady employment or short term contracts (summer months I presume)?

Try searching the "terms and endearment" forum. Most wannabes would happily fly for food and a free tent at this stage :)

Pie

I believe that although you are able to fly with glasses (but not for the RAF when you join), laser surgery is not acceptable, and may result in no medical. Please correct if I am wrong.

So BA pilots aren't average then?

I know a couple who definitely are :)

------------------
...proceeding below Decision Height with CAUTION...

Lucifer,

The CAA regards Laser Surgery as acceptable so long as you stick by their strict guidelines which include withdrawal of medical for 12 months after surgery and extensive tests and reports. So there is a possibility that you could fail the medical but people please remember that Laser surgery does NOT work for everyone (although the vast majority) and in extreme cases can lead to permanent, incorrectable damage. Be wary of surgery JUST to try and get a Class 1!

Hope this helps,

SB :)

Eyesight...
 

Hi everyone! Another question from me if anyone can help! Before making any drastic decisions I ought to establish whether i can pass the Class 1 Medical. I had excimer laser treatment on both eyes about 6 years ago (I was short sighted but now I can see again). Is this accepted in the Class 1 Medical? This is the only bit that worries me about the medical but before paying £400.00 or whatever it is I ought to believe I stand a good chance of passing it! Thanks in advance. Steve.

My advice: Contact the Medical Division of the CAA in Gatwick and ask them. They are the only ones who can give you a definite answer since they are going to examin you for your initial Class 1 Medical and decide whether you can get one. Their tel. no is 01293 573700 (Call Centre) or 01293 567171 (Switchboard)


GAF4139

I understand the CAA are still a bit funny when it comes to laser eye treatment (BA expressly disallow it, at least for the CEP scheme), but opinions are changing as confidence rises in the success of the treatment. In the next year or two I'm sure it will be no problem. I guess no-one can be 100% sure what the long term effects of laser treatment will be - though every indication is that it should be no problem, the aviation industry and regulatory bodies are understandably strict when there's potentially such a lot at stake.

It's definitely worth calling the CAA - you may find they've changed their rules by now.

WGW

Rohan;

Take a look at the CAA's standards at:

http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/pld/med/med..._1_medical.htm

It says correction of long sightedness is not acceptable but doesn't say that for short sightedness. You ;;;should;;; be alright. I thought a £20 eye test at boots along with a printout of their standards was a good plan before forking out £400 for the CAA medical.

Good luck!

SS

Eyesight...
 

Are there any good news stories out there about short-sightedness, The Bates Method, and the visual test for a Class 1 medical.

I'm evaluating the prospects of successfully acquiring a CPL(H) licence and my eyesight is the major barrier from what I can see (which isn't much or I wouldn't be here!)

I've had a first session with a Bates practioner and now I'm just hoping. Some confidence inspiring tales would be appreciated.

Tell us your prescription, it's quite easy to tell whether you're class1 fit or not!(eyesight wise, that is) :rolleyes:

Kraken

I outside of the proposed limits of -5 dioptres, never mind the existing -3. Hopefully someone out there will tell me that they used to be -6, -7, -8.... and Bates got them within the requirements.

search for threads written by "mr magoo" in the "medical" forum....he had success with the bates method.

My shortsightedness started around puberty, worsened until my mid-teens and then stabilised immediately I stopped using the 'bates method.
All that is widely-known as is the fact that it's best keep to well away from choppers... :p

bored marketeer Ortho-k would probably work although I believe it can be painful. If you are now outside of the initial limits but within the renewal limits then get ortho-k until you have a low enough prescription to pass the initial then let your eyes return to their normal state and you should be good for renewal.

As for having a diopter limit in the first place well that is just plain and simple bad science. The diopter is not a measure of how well you are seeing it is the strength of your lenses. It's only function is to make sure that your optician and the guy who makes your glasses are on the same page.

My uncorrected vision is 20/50 which is pretty good, I can get around without my glasses or contacts if I have to although I choose not to. My prescription is -2.75 in each eye. I have a friend who has uncorrected vision of 20/200 he is unable to function without his specs, his prescrition is -1.75 in each eye. Although in general the worse your eyesight the stronger the lens this is not true in all cases and if you can be corrected to 20/20 nothing should stand in your way of becoming a pilot.

The FAA used to require a waiver if uncorrected vision was worse than a certain level 20/200 I think was the cut off, everybody who asked for this waiver got it and after a long number of years where the accident statistics of these waivered airmen exactly matched their unwaivered counterparts and their were no accidents where poor eyesight was listed as a causal factor, the FAA dropped the requirement for a waiver. Now all you need is 20/20 with or without correction. A very practical and reasonable bunch the yanks are.

How about colour vision? I was issued with an OZ ATPL on the basis of the Farnsworth Lantern Test.Those plates with the coloured dots look like a pizza to me! Is there an ICAO standard? If so, what countries accept or don't accept this standard??

Hi BoredMarketeer. If I was you, I would have the laser surgery to correct your eyesight to within class 1 limits. What I would NOT do is tell Medical Division as they won't give you a medical for a year after the surgery (you can't do that if you already have a class 2 of course!)
My eyesight is outside class 1 limits but I was given a medical after completing 700 hours flying. This was pre-JAR so I don't know if this option is available to you. Apparently the thinking is that a 700 hour pilot is experienced and so they are willing to relax the rules.Failing that get an FAA licence and marry a yank. Where theres a will....

Gordon Bennett-
I've never known the CAA or JAA to relax their rules for anybody!! Well done on breaking the mold on that one!
As regards Laser correction; they spot that one a mile off at the class 1 initial. When they see it, they don't give you the cert.. Nuff said! :cool:

Forget Bates. It ain't worth it. It's just another scam. Try to see without your glasses as much as you can and you get pretty much the same effect.

Must admist I'm not keen on the laser surgery anyway! Guess Mr Bates is going to have to do. So - as at 28th November 2001, I can't pass Class 1. Wish me luck and watch this space (otherwise I shall be off to the States - anyone know any single American lasses of reasonable appearance (with corrected vision!!)). :eek:

i was prompted to a site which has new proposed regulations for the class 1 and class 2 eyesight requirements not sure when they might be implemented but 2 years is been talked about.

hope this was as good a piece of news for you as it was for me.
http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/m..._News_2001.PDF



:D :D :D :D :D

for those without acrobat reader heres the page

JAA Medical Subcommittee (MSC) News 2001
See below for a summary of the meetings of the committee and the principal decisions.

For last year’s news see Information/General or click on MSC News in 2000.
March 2001

This meeting mainly discussed changes to the ophthalmology requirements. No consensus
could be reached, and further discussion was deferred to the next meeting (see below).

June 2001
Again, the major topic of discussion was the ophthalmology requirements and the MSC
eventually agreed the changes, but by majority voting. They are summarised below.
However, before they become formally incorporated into JAR FCL 3 (Medical) they need to
be promulgated as a ‘Notice of Proposed Amendment’ (NPA) so that individuals and
organisations can comment. Such comments will be taken into account by the MSC (and
the Flight Crew Licensing Committee, which can overrule a MSC decision) and the proposals
adjusted as necessary. After that there are some legal and administrative procedures to be
followed by the JAA before the new standards become formally incorporated as Joint
Aviation Requirements. This process can take up to two years, particularly for a
controversial subject like ophthalmology. It might be possible for earlier implementation to
occur by the issuance of a ‘Temporary Guidance Leaflet’, but this is unlikely as there was not
unanimous support for the proposed changes. The question of timescales for
implementation will be discussed at the next MSC meeting in late August.
A summary of the proposed Ophthalmology Requirements is given below (note that these
are proposals - see the appropriate Medical Division web pages for the current
requirements).

JAA Class 1 initial:

+5/- 5 dioptres (no requirement for stability)

2 dioptres astigmatism

2 dioptres anisometropia

Refractive surgery: acceptable with a pre-operative refraction between +5 and
-5 dioptres (the UK is already accepting applicants up to these limits with a
good result a year after surgery)

JAA Class 1 revalidation/renewal:

+5/-8 dioptres (an initial applicant between –5 and –8 dioptres cannot gain a
Class 1 certificate, even if stable)

3 dioptres astigmatism

3 dioptres anisometropia

Class 1 holders over 40 years must have an extended eye examination every two
years by an optometrist (or an ophthalmologist if correction is greater than –5 dioptres
or uncorrected visual acuity is worse than 6/60). For pilots under 40 years this two
yearly examination is required for certificate holders who wear glasses or contact
lenses to meet the requirements. Currently the UK CAA is happy for AMEs to do
these examinations (see ‘What’s New’ item on Comprehensive Eye and
Ear/Nose/Throat Examinations)
JAA Class 2 initial:
+5/-8 dioptres
3 dioptres astigmatism
3 dioptres anisometropia
Refractive surgery: acceptable with pre-operative refraction between +5 and -8
dioptres
JAA Class 2 revalidation/renewal:
+5/-8 dioptres
Astigmatism – no limit
Anisometropia – no limit
The UK argued for more relaxed requirements than those stated above, but was
unsuccessful. UK CAA policy changes will be announced on these web pages when
timescales have been agreed for implementation and the exact requirements have been
accepted.
Other items discussed included the relaxation of the limits for Class 1 certificate holders who
develop aortic stenosis (narrowing of the main valve in the heart). There was a long
discussion on psychology requirements, but ultimately no changes were proposed.
Three states brought cases to the committee where the UK had issued initial Class 1
medical certificates to applicants who, according to the three states, did not meet the
standards in JAR-FCL 3. There will be further discussion about this at the next meeting.
However, it may become more of a problem since (in June 2001) the FCL committee
approved NPA 14. This contains the requirement (JAR-FCL 3.065) that all applicants for a
licence must have their initial medical done in the state of licence issue. Thus applicants
may (quite correctly) do an initial medical in their home state before starting to train. If,
subsequently, they decide to train (and eventually apply for a licence) in another JAA state,
they would have to take another initial medical examination in the ‘training’ state. What
would happen if there was a disagreement between the two states over an applicant’s
fitness? Which state would decide? The UK CAA Medical Division feels that amendments
to the regulations, if they do not effect flight safety, should simplify the certification process,
rather than make it more complicated.
July 2001

woohoo!! :D

[ 28 November 2001: Message edited by: rahaney ]

I stand corrected on corrective surgery!!
I only stated what I was told during my initial 3mths ago. I suppose it just goes to show the level of interest the docs really have in allowing us to fulfill our dreams!
Get your surgery BoredMarketeer me matey, and (with any luck) in a year, you'll be class 1 fit!!!

My heart-felt best wishes to you!!! :cool:

Sorry, chaps, but this one belongs in 'Medical'.

Bad eyesight: is there redemtion?
 

I've been given the thumbs down by an optician for my one badly short-sighted eye, and he says if I get glasses, the other will get lazy go with it! So is that it? I can never get behind the joystick? Not here in Ireland, not abroad? I don't want just a PPL, even with DC-3 type ratings! Are all the airlines scared of laser surgery? I feel so powerless! Help!

<img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="frown.gif" border="0">