Thanks Billiebob

I did hear something that CASA in OZ are talking about doing the same type of stuff,, however they need a a flight test to their ATPL licence...

BB - not trying to start an argument here - just want an educated view on FTO's.

The Dutch have KLM training, the Belgians have Sabena training and the Germans have LuftHansa training in the United States - are these done differently (somehow)?

At least the Sabena school is JAA qualified - the certificates are on the office wall.

Keygrip - Fair point, I should have referred only to FTOs providing modular training, I was trying not to get lost in too much detail. The Lufthansa, Sabena and KLM operations are all satellites of FTOs approved in Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands, respectively. All are training only for "all or part of the integrated ATP course" as permitted by Appendix 1b to JAR-FCL 1.055. The vested interests of the airlines concerned will probably ensure that integrated training outside the JAA continues.

It is modular training by FTOs with their main place of business in the JAA that is not permitted by JAR-FCL, such as that provided by OAT, CCAT, Comed and AFT. Modular training by FTOs with their main place of business outside the JAA is permitted by JAR-FCL, with a number of provisos, although no state is obliged to approve non-JAA FTOs. The lack of enthusiasm shown by member states (other than the UK) to undertake approval of these organisations is notable. Mind you, the last I heard the UK had not processed any new applications from non-JAA FTOs for over two years, despite having received over 20. This may, or may not, have something to do with the impending impact of EASA.

I also hear that a number of US-based organisations got a particularly vicious savaging from the CAA in this year's inspection round, amid suspicion that there is a hidden agenda to cut back on 'overseas' approvals.

Are they also changing the rules for military pilots wanting a JAA Certificate?

I have a FAA ATPL and I am a European military pilot. What is the easiest route for me to get the JAA Certificates?
(Should I use my military backgound or my american ATPL)

run,

JAR-FCL 1.020 (Credit for military service) will most probably not be changed in the near future, it was not part of NPA FCL 1-19.

cheers,
redbar1

SO IS THS REALLY CHANGED
 

What's the real scoop here. Is there a reduction in the amount of testing one needs to convert from FAA to JAA ATPL. I am in the middle of taking a distance course now and would like to know if I have to do all of this or not.
Thank You

LAWN DART

Anyone have any interpretations of converting an FAA IR to the JAA in this document?

"To comply with JAR-FCL 1.016 concerning the skill test and training".

I have no links to JAR-FCL 1.016, but is this getting rid of the current 15 hr requirement?

Anyone know?

The last I heard from the CAA was that they were not going to 'facilitate' any more out-of-EU JAR training - but they can't 'ban' it.

So, potential US trainers could probably apply for approval, but there's nothing to say that the UK CAA is obliged to process the application quickly, or cheaply. And the cost of the inspection will, no doubt, include costs involved by the assessor.....?? Club Class return from Gatwick to wherever, plus accommodation and subsistence on top of an hourly rate, perhaps?

The practices regarding safeguarding and marking of JAR PPL exam ppaers in some, though hopefully not all US schools is also known to the UK CAA.

Train in EU for a JAA licence
Train in the US for a FAA licence
Train in Oz for an Australian licence.

....and convert from one to another in an agreed manner.

ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON THE PROPOSAL FOR THE REDUCTION OF TESTING FAA TO JAA.

I heard that this change in the rules was to take place in '05 or '06. Anyone else hear the same.

The JAA/CAA are continually altering the rules and seem to be unaware of the human consequences of their actions.

One thing is for sure .. At the end of the day they will try and avoid any negative consequences for their exam income stream.

Ludicrous costs for what are just a few MCQ tests...

Of course I realise that all this is essential because of our 'special' airspace in Europe that is so different than anywhere else... :rolleyes:

Anything news? What's the latest?

I spoke to a woman at the CAA on WED last week about this. She confimed that it was in the works and that there would be a change for those who have the flight time. They told me to call back in 6 mo. for further developments. She said the changes could be in 6 mo. or 2 yrs, so they recomend that people still do the study for the 14 tests.

Good luck all

Lawn Dart

Well it's been six months since I started this thread and it's still going, albeit slowly. I'm part way through my FAA instructor ratings now and am still worried about the EASA thing. I just get the feeling that someone out there is making a big role of red tape and it's going to be wrapped tightly and quickly around the aviation industry in the not too distant future. I'm hoping that the 14 ATPL exams that I passed will still be worth something. If not, I guess I'm going to have to sneak in with a quick conversion to JAA.

I keep thinking about converting my FAA ATPL(A) to a JAA, but get put off by the idea of all the exams!but under this new system its got me thinking again

I did the CAA CPL(H) exams 10years ago and the Heli atp was granted based on cpl exams then.

My FAA ATPL is typed with HS125 and GV and i have 6500 total with 2000 on the jets 4500helis

any one got any ideas as to what i may have to do under the new system to get JAA ATPL (A)

I looked at the proposal stuff and what the 85 questions are based on, it looks like you will still have to study all the subjects to cover the questions:{

Dual Rated, you are correct in your post. To pass the single test one will still have to have the knowledge of all of the subjects.

The positives that I can think of are only one test fee (provided you pass), and the fact that you should only have one sitting.

You will still need to take an observation ride on the HS-125 or GV.

I think people with your qualifications should just get the conversion, the CAA just wants your Money!

Why try and buck the system, it works, there are jobs in Europe, the pilots are very very well educated what more can a aviation industry ask for...

I have personally met many many 10 000 hr pilots who still have no real idea of how a IRS works, or why a HF radio frequency has to be changed with the time of day with sunspot activity....simple things...

I dont see too many people on these forums going to bat for you and supporting the pro easy conversion case.

Lostconcern, I hear what you're saying about bucking the system but who is an airline going to call; someone with 500 hrs who knows how to bulid a radio or someone who has 10,000 hrs of experience? It just seems silly that one needs to complete all of the tests to do what one has been doing for years.
Example: a pilot with an FAA ticket can fly an "N" registerd A/C in the UK, based in the UK but can't fly a "G" registered A/C. I don't get it, is there some incredible difference between the A/C? Do they fly differently because of the different letter?

LDD

LostConcern i think you missed the point, ive already sat the exams and been flying g reg stuff for 10years but on helis,so an abreviated paper for heli pilots crossing over would be better than starting all over again.

Most of the corperate world is Caymen, Bermudan Aruban N or mostly something other than JAA alot are for tax reasons for the owners.im not really interested in the airlines, so i keep kicking myself for thinking i need to convert. i know people that have both JAA and FAA and its the FAA ticket that gets used the most.

i am amazed that there are 10000hr guys flying out there like you say, not knowing what they are doing.how did they get the jobs in the first place? i would also blame the operator in that case for hiring them!

Im not looking for an easy solution to the conversion but one that makes more logical common sense.

PS
i did here one that if you had 1500pic on a type of more than 30 tonnes you could get a JAA licence issued, anyone heard that one?

the problem is it has to be on AOC work! which i cant understand. whats the difference betwwen one GV flying round the world and another that is on an AOC except that they maybe better at doing the extra paperwork involved

Sorry to bring this thread back,


But if someone can correct me here:

Under these new proposals, a holder of an FAA CPL/IR with 500hrs PIC post licence issue can sit only 4 ATPL shortened exams to convert the CPL, but why on earth to convert the FAA IR to JAA IR must you sit all 14 exams ?! As stated in the document.