Learning to fly ?
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Learning to fly ?
Hi most of you will know me from a few months ago and my posts. I would like to ask what is currently the best and quickest way to get to piloting aircraft such as A320's on short haul routes. I'm only 14 but i want to get started.
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Hi jet_breeze,
Firstly please do yourself a favour and obtain the best GCSE results that you can. This will stand you in good steed in later life, if within the aviation sector or otherwise.
After you finish school? You may have been reading the views both for and against studying for your A Levels and Further Education such as BSc/BA Degrees etc. Well in this present climate. I am a firm believer in gaining qualifications and so my advice is yes go and do your A Levels. By the time you finish those you will be 18 and you can't apply for a Commercial Pilots Licence (CPL) until 18 years or age anyway. In four years or so the pilot market may have changed... probably for the worse but maybe (and I am crossing my fingers here) for the better.
As you're keen to obtain your licences etc it may be a good idea to see if you like flying. I know this sounds strange but book a trial lesson or even a couple of lessons to see if you like the light aircraft environment. For this is the place you're going to be for at least 200 hours... if (and this is most likely to happen) you don't land your airline job straight from pilot school with a freshley pressed CPL/IR (with ATPL subjects passed) then you'd probably be looking for a few hundred hours more, if not thousands of hours as an instructor, air taxi etc in light/general aviation.
You can't go solo until your 16. So you can take flight training before you reach your 16th birthday and hopefully go solo on the afformentioned birthday such as a friend of mine down at the flying club did earlier this month. After you have gone solo you'll be required to be 17 before applying for your PPL (Private Pilots Licence). By now you'll be half way through your A Levels and will already have a PPL.
*OR* alternatively, in school you can join the air cadets. You'll get gliding and maybe fixed wing powered flying in a Grob. Sure it may not lead to a PPL but it'll be very good flying experience. However I am not sure of this option as I have never been a member of the air cadets. Maybe someone else could possibly comment on this route / option?
So after your A levels look again at the market and try and decide between ATPL (Air Transport Pilots Licence) Pilot training course or a Degree.
If you opt for a degree then it'll be three or four years of development of your personal, social, academic skills (okay there is a lot more to Uni than this). During the Uni course and assuming you have a bit of spare money (quite unlikely as the Students Union will probably see most of it!) you can do some hour building... just flying using your PPL (if you have one that is).
Okay so you are now either 18 straight from A Levels or around 21 with a Degree and you decide to go for an ATPL. There are two methods.
1) Intergrated Course
2) Modular Course
Lets take the first option first... its just over a years course and takes someone from 0 flying experience to a qualified Frozen ATPL (that is a CPL/IR with the ATPL subjects passed). You'll also have the MCC / CRM courses completed. If you have a PPL then only half of your hours will be counted to the minimum required for the Integrated course. For example, if you have 50 hours total and the course is lets say 200 hours flying time then you'll only have 25 hours off the 200 which leaves you with 175 hours left to do and that is if you pass everything first time.
The integrated option is very expensive. Around £60,000 for the years course (all these figures are approx)? Plus accommodation, living expenses etc...
The modular route follows the following "modules":
1) PPL. (If you haven't already got one by this point).
2) Hour Building to 150 Hours Total Time inc 100 PIC. Try to get a Night rating and maybe an IMC rating (not compulsary).
3) ATPL Ground Examinations (2 Modules - 14 Exams) - if distance learning could take a year or so to complete - you can do this while conducting step 2.
4) CPL (25 Hours Course).
5) Instrument Rating (55 Hour Course) (The expensive bit!)
6) MCC / CRM - Multi Crew Co-operation and Crew Resource Management.
The above modular route may work out to be the same cost as an Integrated, but normally do cost a lot less if you shop around for the difference modules. Also the modular route allows you to undergo training as and when affordable.
So you could be 19 / 20 yrs old with A-Levels and a fATPL looking for an airline job. Or you could be 22 / 23 with A-Levels, Degree and an fATPL looking for that first break in the airline industry.
I would have entered the subject of Sponsorships into the equation, but the simple fact of the matter is that no one is doing ab-initio sponsorships anymore. Read: BA have stopped them since a couple of years ago.
My personal circumstances are that I finished school, went to college and then onto University. Finish Uni in 1997 and started learning to fly a couple of months later for my PPL. Finished my PPL in Jan 1999 since when I have been flying for fun and as a hobby. Last year with around a little under 400 hours in the logbook got a kick the a**e by airline pilot friend(s) to go and do my commercials. Doing the American FAA CPL/IR route (going to the USA for the courses next Thursday) and will then convert them to the equivalent JAA licences. That involves all of the ground school (the 14 exams) and CPL/IR courses but a vastly reduced hour requirement for the flight training courses (IF I am good enough to pass that is - fingers crossed!). Oh and yes I have always wanted to fly for a living since being around6/7 yrs old - just been a little lazy and busy with work since gaining my PPL, thus the reason for just flying a hobby until recently.
I'm going into hiding now as I'm probably going to get lots of responses for my "advice" which may sound patronising, but if it does sound as if it is then I am sorry, I really don't mean for it to sound patronising. :-) Oh okay I'm not going into hiding, I'm off to do my FAA CPL/IR in the USA this week! But that's another slight different route to the modular JARs... hehehehe ;-)
Anyway good luck with your studying and flying.
Best wishes,
Charlie Zulu.
Firstly please do yourself a favour and obtain the best GCSE results that you can. This will stand you in good steed in later life, if within the aviation sector or otherwise.
After you finish school? You may have been reading the views both for and against studying for your A Levels and Further Education such as BSc/BA Degrees etc. Well in this present climate. I am a firm believer in gaining qualifications and so my advice is yes go and do your A Levels. By the time you finish those you will be 18 and you can't apply for a Commercial Pilots Licence (CPL) until 18 years or age anyway. In four years or so the pilot market may have changed... probably for the worse but maybe (and I am crossing my fingers here) for the better.
As you're keen to obtain your licences etc it may be a good idea to see if you like flying. I know this sounds strange but book a trial lesson or even a couple of lessons to see if you like the light aircraft environment. For this is the place you're going to be for at least 200 hours... if (and this is most likely to happen) you don't land your airline job straight from pilot school with a freshley pressed CPL/IR (with ATPL subjects passed) then you'd probably be looking for a few hundred hours more, if not thousands of hours as an instructor, air taxi etc in light/general aviation.
You can't go solo until your 16. So you can take flight training before you reach your 16th birthday and hopefully go solo on the afformentioned birthday such as a friend of mine down at the flying club did earlier this month. After you have gone solo you'll be required to be 17 before applying for your PPL (Private Pilots Licence). By now you'll be half way through your A Levels and will already have a PPL.
*OR* alternatively, in school you can join the air cadets. You'll get gliding and maybe fixed wing powered flying in a Grob. Sure it may not lead to a PPL but it'll be very good flying experience. However I am not sure of this option as I have never been a member of the air cadets. Maybe someone else could possibly comment on this route / option?
So after your A levels look again at the market and try and decide between ATPL (Air Transport Pilots Licence) Pilot training course or a Degree.
If you opt for a degree then it'll be three or four years of development of your personal, social, academic skills (okay there is a lot more to Uni than this). During the Uni course and assuming you have a bit of spare money (quite unlikely as the Students Union will probably see most of it!) you can do some hour building... just flying using your PPL (if you have one that is).
Okay so you are now either 18 straight from A Levels or around 21 with a Degree and you decide to go for an ATPL. There are two methods.
1) Intergrated Course
2) Modular Course
Lets take the first option first... its just over a years course and takes someone from 0 flying experience to a qualified Frozen ATPL (that is a CPL/IR with the ATPL subjects passed). You'll also have the MCC / CRM courses completed. If you have a PPL then only half of your hours will be counted to the minimum required for the Integrated course. For example, if you have 50 hours total and the course is lets say 200 hours flying time then you'll only have 25 hours off the 200 which leaves you with 175 hours left to do and that is if you pass everything first time.
The integrated option is very expensive. Around £60,000 for the years course (all these figures are approx)? Plus accommodation, living expenses etc...
The modular route follows the following "modules":
1) PPL. (If you haven't already got one by this point).
2) Hour Building to 150 Hours Total Time inc 100 PIC. Try to get a Night rating and maybe an IMC rating (not compulsary).
3) ATPL Ground Examinations (2 Modules - 14 Exams) - if distance learning could take a year or so to complete - you can do this while conducting step 2.
4) CPL (25 Hours Course).
5) Instrument Rating (55 Hour Course) (The expensive bit!)
6) MCC / CRM - Multi Crew Co-operation and Crew Resource Management.
The above modular route may work out to be the same cost as an Integrated, but normally do cost a lot less if you shop around for the difference modules. Also the modular route allows you to undergo training as and when affordable.
So you could be 19 / 20 yrs old with A-Levels and a fATPL looking for an airline job. Or you could be 22 / 23 with A-Levels, Degree and an fATPL looking for that first break in the airline industry.
I would have entered the subject of Sponsorships into the equation, but the simple fact of the matter is that no one is doing ab-initio sponsorships anymore. Read: BA have stopped them since a couple of years ago.
My personal circumstances are that I finished school, went to college and then onto University. Finish Uni in 1997 and started learning to fly a couple of months later for my PPL. Finished my PPL in Jan 1999 since when I have been flying for fun and as a hobby. Last year with around a little under 400 hours in the logbook got a kick the a**e by airline pilot friend(s) to go and do my commercials. Doing the American FAA CPL/IR route (going to the USA for the courses next Thursday) and will then convert them to the equivalent JAA licences. That involves all of the ground school (the 14 exams) and CPL/IR courses but a vastly reduced hour requirement for the flight training courses (IF I am good enough to pass that is - fingers crossed!). Oh and yes I have always wanted to fly for a living since being around6/7 yrs old - just been a little lazy and busy with work since gaining my PPL, thus the reason for just flying a hobby until recently.
I'm going into hiding now as I'm probably going to get lots of responses for my "advice" which may sound patronising, but if it does sound as if it is then I am sorry, I really don't mean for it to sound patronising. :-) Oh okay I'm not going into hiding, I'm off to do my FAA CPL/IR in the USA this week! But that's another slight different route to the modular JARs... hehehehe ;-)
Anyway good luck with your studying and flying.
Best wishes,
Charlie Zulu.
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Hi Thanks very very much for the information. I was planning on doing my A-Levels after high school as it would be a useful thing to have on my CV in an interview. I have booked in a trial flight at Westair ( Blackpool Airport EGNH ).
Thanks much appreciated
Jet_Breeze
Thanks much appreciated
Jet_Breeze
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Charlie Zulu, you patronising barsteward, how dare you..............
You obviously don't belong on PPRuNe. Where's the controversary, the drama, the cynicism? Where's the flames?
Please leave immediately and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Actually I have to say that your reply is a succinct masterpiece in clarity, contains excellent information and is precisely what young jet_breeze was looking for and plenty of others I might add. Well done.
It should be made a sticky for the benefit of others requiring the same information.
Well done!
You obviously don't belong on PPRuNe. Where's the controversary, the drama, the cynicism? Where's the flames?
Please leave immediately and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Actually I have to say that your reply is a succinct masterpiece in clarity, contains excellent information and is precisely what young jet_breeze was looking for and plenty of others I might add. Well done.
It should be made a sticky for the benefit of others requiring the same information.Well done!
