PoF the facts
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PoF the facts
Hi,
I was one of those who sat PoF recently and was disapointed with the paper, and the results. What miffed me off even more was the Stats that have been released by the CAA. It would appear that the pass rate has gone down from around 65% to 26% of people that sat the exam (National rates)
I have been told by a FTO that it is all down to one guy who has added new questions that are third year aerodynamics stuff, and are outside the syllabus.
What intrests me is the fact that i read a lot of complaints on prune but, I am wondering if anyone is going to make a formal complaint to thier MP. I would like to , but, don't want to be on my own.
It seems so unfair that they can change the goal posts to suit, I can only think of one good and valid reason for doing so, MONEY..................
I was one of those who sat PoF recently and was disapointed with the paper, and the results. What miffed me off even more was the Stats that have been released by the CAA. It would appear that the pass rate has gone down from around 65% to 26% of people that sat the exam (National rates)
I have been told by a FTO that it is all down to one guy who has added new questions that are third year aerodynamics stuff, and are outside the syllabus.
What intrests me is the fact that i read a lot of complaints on prune but, I am wondering if anyone is going to make a formal complaint to thier MP. I would like to , but, don't want to be on my own.
It seems so unfair that they can change the goal posts to suit, I can only think of one good and valid reason for doing so, MONEY..................
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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Dean,
That sounds seriously naughty of the CAA. Are you sure that your MP is the best person to take this matter up with? Are there not the usual channels within the CAA open to you and instructors?
26% pass rate show that something seriously needs addressing.
Who was the person who added these questions? PM me the name to preserve the PPRuNe anonymity rules.
Regards,
VFE.
That sounds seriously naughty of the CAA. Are you sure that your MP is the best person to take this matter up with? Are there not the usual channels within the CAA open to you and instructors?
26% pass rate show that something seriously needs addressing.
Who was the person who added these questions? PM me the name to preserve the PPRuNe anonymity rules.
Regards,
VFE.
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That person
VFE,
I read with interest your reply to Dean. I am just curious why you would like the name of the CAA person in examinations who deals with POF. Is there something you can do? or do you intend to appraoch him. I know the schools know him, but I don't thing he would give us students the time of day if we did make representation, he would just refer us back to our schools. I, like a lot of people out there am equally frustrated with POF, but at the end of the day I don't think we can do much, other than spend more money and study harder and hope reasonable questions come up in our papers.
I read with interest your reply to Dean. I am just curious why you would like the name of the CAA person in examinations who deals with POF. Is there something you can do? or do you intend to appraoch him. I know the schools know him, but I don't thing he would give us students the time of day if we did make representation, he would just refer us back to our schools. I, like a lot of people out there am equally frustrated with POF, but at the end of the day I don't think we can do much, other than spend more money and study harder and hope reasonable questions come up in our papers.
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Alex,
Thanks for the correct numbers, but still way down on the average. I got that figure from your post, and yes I was using the figure with your numbers taken out. But it still shows that in general there is something realy wrong. I along with others I know are on our last chance, and, after spending thousands and two years to get to this stage it can all be wiped out by this. I know some will say you should learn the subject more, but even my instructor is struggleing with some of these questions. What frustates me is the fact that the CAA dont seem to care. This would not be allowed in any other organisation.
VFE, I dont the name of the person, but have been told by several FTO's that this is the case.Lets face it if I did know I would'nt be able to do anything anyway.
The reason I mention my MP is through frustation. I have now started to collect information and figures that show somthing is wrong.
I have seen lists of questions that have been queried with the CAA and it is quite amazing, it is published by the CAA and lists questions and the CAA reply, there are loads that have things like ' Two possible answers' ' No correct answer' ' Bably worded question' ' Wrong figures used' ' Misprint' and so on. We however get no leeway for our failings just a resit form wanting our credit card number.
If they have got it wrong, which the figures suggest they have, then someone should but thier hand up and say so.
I dont want something for nothing, but I also dont want to be taken for a ride.
Thanks for the correct numbers, but still way down on the average. I got that figure from your post, and yes I was using the figure with your numbers taken out. But it still shows that in general there is something realy wrong. I along with others I know are on our last chance, and, after spending thousands and two years to get to this stage it can all be wiped out by this. I know some will say you should learn the subject more, but even my instructor is struggleing with some of these questions. What frustates me is the fact that the CAA dont seem to care. This would not be allowed in any other organisation.
VFE, I dont the name of the person, but have been told by several FTO's that this is the case.Lets face it if I did know I would'nt be able to do anything anyway.
The reason I mention my MP is through frustation. I have now started to collect information and figures that show somthing is wrong.
I have seen lists of questions that have been queried with the CAA and it is quite amazing, it is published by the CAA and lists questions and the CAA reply, there are loads that have things like ' Two possible answers' ' No correct answer' ' Bably worded question' ' Wrong figures used' ' Misprint' and so on. We however get no leeway for our failings just a resit form wanting our credit card number.
If they have got it wrong, which the figures suggest they have, then someone should but thier hand up and say so.
I dont want something for nothing, but I also dont want to be taken for a ride.
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Regulation 6(5) of the Civil Aviation Regulations 1991 provides as follows:-
Isn't this the answer to the exam question? You have an avenue of appeal laid down in the regulations. If enough of you exercise you right to appeal maybe they will think again. The have to give you a fair hearing on your appeal = alot of time and effort!
Good luck - hope you're within the 14days!
Any person who has failed any test or examination which he is required to pass before he is granted or may exercise the privileges of a personnel licence may within 14 days of being notified of his failure request that the Authority determine whether the test or examination was properly conducted.
Good luck - hope you're within the 14days!
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Clubley,
Just being nosey really. Always interested to hear behind-the-scenes gossip on the mob who constructs the lunacy known as JAR ATPL examinations!
I was once told that instructors at approved schools could submit questions they'd constructed themselves which fell into the JAR sillybus, but then again you hear all sorts on the grapevine.
My guess is that these quizmeisters have names such as Sharron or Tracy and wear rather fetching white stillettoes.
VFE.
Just being nosey really. Always interested to hear behind-the-scenes gossip on the mob who constructs the lunacy known as JAR ATPL examinations!
I was once told that instructors at approved schools could submit questions they'd constructed themselves which fell into the JAR sillybus, but then again you hear all sorts on the grapevine.
My guess is that these quizmeisters have names such as Sharron or Tracy and wear rather fetching white stillettoes.
VFE.
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Dean,
Although you are absolutely correct in saying that there is something seriously wrong, the people at the CAA are quite incapable of recognizing the fact. It isn't that they are bad or mad people, or that they are deliberately being unhelpful, or cannot fix the problem, but they quite simply do not see a problem.
The chap who runs the POF exam in the CAA is in fact one of their better examiners (the best actually), knows a great deal about his subject, and was an exceptionally effective instructor prior to joining the CAA. I seriously doubt that any of these problem questions were created by him.
There is also very little chance that any kind of group protest action will achieve a remedy in the near future. certainly not within the 18 month deadline facing anyone who has already passed one of the examinations. Please do not interpret this as an invitation to give up. I and many other people have tried and will continue to try to wake them up, but I do not expect to achieve success any time soon.
There is however a realistic possibility that individual students who have been disadvantaged by these sudden exceptionally low pass rates, might be granted individual dispensations. I would suggest that anyone who was at their third or fourth attempt when taking the May or June POF exams should write to the CAA asking for that attempt to be discounted. The basis for this request should be that they have been unfairly treated in that their examination was far harder than those taken by students in previous months. The proof cited for this argument should be the fact that the national pass rates of 31.3% and 49.5% published by the CAA are far lower than those published in previous months. There is of course no guarantee that the request will be granted, but the CAA are often surprisingly generous (???) when they want to be. But they rarely want to be if you are being nasty to them.
Although you are absolutely correct in saying that there is something seriously wrong, the people at the CAA are quite incapable of recognizing the fact. It isn't that they are bad or mad people, or that they are deliberately being unhelpful, or cannot fix the problem, but they quite simply do not see a problem.
The chap who runs the POF exam in the CAA is in fact one of their better examiners (the best actually), knows a great deal about his subject, and was an exceptionally effective instructor prior to joining the CAA. I seriously doubt that any of these problem questions were created by him.
There is also very little chance that any kind of group protest action will achieve a remedy in the near future. certainly not within the 18 month deadline facing anyone who has already passed one of the examinations. Please do not interpret this as an invitation to give up. I and many other people have tried and will continue to try to wake them up, but I do not expect to achieve success any time soon.
There is however a realistic possibility that individual students who have been disadvantaged by these sudden exceptionally low pass rates, might be granted individual dispensations. I would suggest that anyone who was at their third or fourth attempt when taking the May or June POF exams should write to the CAA asking for that attempt to be discounted. The basis for this request should be that they have been unfairly treated in that their examination was far harder than those taken by students in previous months. The proof cited for this argument should be the fact that the national pass rates of 31.3% and 49.5% published by the CAA are far lower than those published in previous months. There is of course no guarantee that the request will be granted, but the CAA are often surprisingly generous (???) when they want to be. But they rarely want to be if you are being nasty to them.
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I'm not really sure what I can and can't discuss about pass rates. In theory this is in the public domain, but in practise the information the CAA release to schools is often 'in confidence'. I only quoted these numbers because they have been reported elsewhere on the forum.
The CAA are required to operate in line with the Open Government Policy set out at this website and must reply within a set time frame to questions from the public. The best thing you could do is ask them directly for the information, and refer them to the document above if they refuse.
The CAA are required to operate in line with the Open Government Policy set out at this website and must reply within a set time frame to questions from the public. The best thing you could do is ask them directly for the information, and refer them to the document above if they refuse.
