CPL ==> ATPL in the UK as per paperexercise ??

[OSCAR YANKEE]

I thought that in order to get a JAA ATPL, you would have to have a frozen ATPL, a certain amount of hours incl. 500 hrs. on multi-pilot certified A/C, and then pass a skilltest.
The other day, I was told by a friend that the UK CAA issues a ATPL, based on all the requirements mentioned, except the skill test , as per paper-exercise so to speak. Anyone heard of this ???

[Tinstaafl]

Yep. That's how it works. No additional test required. Not only under JAR but also the old UK national system and also in Oz.

You need a valid IR for the issue though and that lapses without a renewal test each year, unlike the USA IR. The USA ATP check ride is essentially an IR test so there's still an equivalence within the various systems.

[ecj]

Provided you have passed the ATPL written exams, the skill tests etc, and then go on to acquire the required flying experience, you can now apply for the ATPL. An existing valid current licence may be important when you apply.

[OSCAR YANKEE]

I am truly amazed. Just browsed through the JAR FCL which talks about the skill test in several subchapters.
What is the argument that you do not need a specific skill test ??

[OSCAR YANKEE]

Just spoke to a friend at the Danish CAA - FCL dept. He says that you do need to do a skill test if you want to get rid off the "Co-Pilot" designation.......

Has anyone done this ??
Am I missing something ???

[Tinstaafl]

OY, the argument is that you do get a skill test. Every single year to maintain your instrument rating, unlike the USA system. Under UK/JAR & also Oz, an instrument rating is time limited. It last a year & then it's gone - unless you do a test to renew it, even AFTER the issue of an ATPL. A current IR is required for the issue of the ATPL. That means you must have done an IR test within the last year.

The USA system doesn't require that. One Commercial or IR test & it's pretty well valid forever. You could front up 10 or 15 years later having done no tests (other than a BFR), hence the need for an ATP issue test. Don't forget that the ATP checkride is basically an IR test. Note that thereafter instrument privileges are held with the ATP, so again, no further testing of skill may ever be taken but the pilot still maintains instrument privileges.

Each system has its merits and its disadvantages. End result is that both systems achieve similar levels of safety although I think the UK/JAR system is bureacratically expensive nightmare compared to the US or Oz.

[OSCAR YANKEE]

Well maybe I should start applying instead of argueing.....

But an ATPL is a command check is it not ?? I mean IR wise there's no difference btw. me and the commander when I do a Profiency Check, but command wise there is. It seems silly that I can fly the 737 from the RH seat, and then "all of a sudden" can exercise the rights of a commander by proving that I can still fly on Instruments.....?

And the the odd detail. British CAA does it (acc. to you Gentlemen), but the Danish CAA laughs at me. The are both JAA countries, and definitely should administer the rules equally.

[raysalmon]

<<And the the odd detail. British CAA does it (acc. to you Gentlemen), but the Danish CAA laughs at me. The are both JAA countries, and definitely should administer the rules equally.>>

Since the FAA in the U.S. can't even administer rules consistently within itself, I wouldn't bank on two separate, sovereign nations being able to apply rules consistently.

Ray

[Tinstaafl]

UK IR & Oz Command IR + renewals: Mine (& most other's initial) have all been done in a light twin as a single pilot operation, ergo in command.

USA ATPL: Mine was done in a light twin as a single pilot operation, ergo in command.


What's the difference?

[OSCAR YANKEE]

Well one difference is that to qualify for the JAR ATPL you need a min of 500 hr. multipilot-certified-A/C time, which I don't think you need for the FAA ATP, and I do not think you can stay proficient on the B737 by flying IR renewals on a single-pilot operated light twin.
But then again. One thing is the issuance of a license, another is renewal.......