whats the competition?

[gliderman69]

So reading all the pro's and cons of doing your fATPL, deciding if its all worth it.

Many thanks to pilotpete's posts as you seem to be the rational voice amongst the mad crowd.......

Anyway I have come to the conclusion that doing the ATPL is something that you are doing for love of flying not to get a job unlike say doing a law degree, flying is a vocation, I am 30 with wife and child, I have flown gliders for a long time and had trips in many different powered aircraft while as an Air Cadet and as an Avionic engineer in the air force, but due to my age a job in aviation seems a long shot (but never say never)

Just started the the old PPL as I now have the money, I have a decent job and could with a lot cut backs fund a ATPL modular route.

So question (out of interest as I will never get a job!)

Just how many fATPL are there out there! given that there are still people like me who can fund their own training, and people getting paid to do it.

Given the lack of jobs, there must be each year a net gain of people who have a fATPL, so any ideas how many people there are out there (lets keep this to the UK only, to keep it simple)

And given the above fact, what advice can any one who has been there, seen it and done it give us to make you stand out from the crowd.

If you had to give one bit of advice what would it be ie: clean suit, type rating, mutli time etc..............

Cheers

Gliderman

[no sponsor]

Err, I do not know why you are ruling out becoming a commercial pilot at the age of 30.

Many people decide to change their vocation in their 30's - not just those wanting to become pilots. Many on this forum are older than you, in various stages along the road to a ATPL/CPL/IR.

Some people have posted on the amount of newly qualified pilots, and its safe to say that it is in the thousands. WWW had a useful formula in working out the number of schools, and their respective output. Another good statistic is the number of initial Class 1 medicals being issued (alot less than it used to be).

You will join the ranks of not only the newly qualified but,

- those with Grandfather rights coming from commonwealth countries - NZ, Oz and others. This caused a huge problem for newbies in the late 1990's when low cost carriers recruited directly in these countries, rather than take home-grown candidates.

- the recently redundant mass of pilots from the UK and EU.

- All other EU countries - in Jan of next year, a new batch joins the EU with automatic rights to work in any EU country.

- those who retire from Big Airways at 55, and want to work for another 5 years.

It's not a rosy picture, but then it never is in the airline industry. I suspect that over the course of the next few years you will see:

- a significant decrease in the number of people attempting to become a pilot as they become disillusioned with the chance of getting a decent job, and the cost makes it prohibitive. Added to the fact that salaries will continue to decrease.

- a decrease in the number of flight training schools - the number is unsustainable given the above point.

I would say: if you want to be a commercial pilot, of course you have to do the necessary qualifications. If you don't, leave it, remain a PPL, and buy a share of a nice plane to take you and your family away to the house in Spain for long weekends...

[gliderman69]

thanks for the reply no sponsor

You raise some interesting points, why do I think I am over the hill?

I just feel that I will be competing with younger guys that have had longer to get the hours in and its just another factor to deal with along with all the others that you mention. I understand that age brings with it knowledge and experience which no matter what your previous background can add to flying career.
All that aside I am considering jumping on the band wagon, flying is something that I love and have done in one form or another for a long time and I am looking at a career change flying is just one of them.

I am just making sure that I have all the facts and going into this with my eyes open.

Thanks again for the reply, another question for you do you have to structure the training towards the type of flying that you want to do.

for example cargo or SLF? :-)

[witchdoctor]

In response to your original question, I would hazard a guess at fATPL holders with current licences, medicals and ratings yet unemployed at around 1000 - 1500. The larger schools must churn out 150 - 250 studes each per year, so it doesn't seem unlikely, but the number is possibly much higher depending how many actually try to keep current and immediately employable.

As for the age thing, I started mine at 30 (without the means to support myself) and have been fortunate enough to land a part-time flying job in a C150 which keeps me current and the hours tickling along until things improve a bit. Always worth a try.

[gliderman69]

witchdoctor

So do you find any issues relating to your age (ageism should'nt exsit!) or has no one ever commented?

My outlook on this is that I can fly as well as the youngters (well I hope!) pass the exams as well (just look at John Travolta), but I can't change my age (altougth I have been told I still look 25, by generally drunk, partially sighted women :-) )

Also how did you manage to fund it all without the means to support your self that takes a lot of doing.

Gliderman

[witchdoctor]

Age doesn't seem to have been an issue so much as hours - most fATPL holders at present would probably say that is the single biggest barrier to getting one of the few jobs presently floating about.

As for the rest, well it's no different to any other job once you have the appropriate qualifications. Put together a CV and covering letter that you hope will catch some attention, try and build a network of contacts to keep you up to speed on what's happening and where the next vacancy might be, and the old favourite "right place, right time".

Funding it all is certainly hard. Just as I started all the tax breaks for vocational training disappeared (thanks Gordon Brown!) and prices went up. Things are even more expensive now, so I don't envy new starters. Fortunately my folks had already paid their mortgage off (so could remortgage) and were able (and willing) to loan me the money at rates you won't get from any bank and be flexible on repayment. Lucky ole me.

PM me if you want to talk it over in more detail. WD

[pjdj777]

Just for the record, you ain't over the hill at 30, I started flying at that age and just over a year ago (at 34) I landed a job flying 737s.

It can be done, but it does take patience, hard work and a little bit of luck

[Northern Highflyer]

If you are passionate about flying then the fATPL is worth it IMHO.

Expect stress and heartache and the "why did I ever bother" feelings, but you will find it's worth it in the end.

Ambition, determination and committment are more important then age and you are far from past it at 30. I am just starting out and I am a tad older then you. If it's what you want and you go into it with all the facts and your eyes wide open, you have as much chance as any other wannabe.

best of luck

[RVR800]

Its all a matter of money and time...
If at the end of it all you dont get a decent job and you're
loaded who cares?
There are loads of people I know in their 40's that are still in GA
but they are just obsessed with their hobby..
Enjoy..

[gliderman69]

well where do I sign up then?

Thanks for all the positive post on the subject nice to her that there are just as many people in the same boat.

Thanks one and all I will noe retire to consider my judgement on the matter



Gliderman