What's the story @ Oxford??
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Interested in the claims that Oxford enjoys near monopoly, has little competition etc.
Is this another case of customers who paid too much rationalising their decision?
I am sure that BAE, Cabair, SFT and anyone else who hasn't gone bust yet would claim to compete but is OATS superiority true or just more of their notorious marketing, which some people believe?
Is this another case of customers who paid too much rationalising their decision?
I am sure that BAE, Cabair, SFT and anyone else who hasn't gone bust yet would claim to compete but is OATS superiority true or just more of their notorious marketing, which some people believe?
As I've said elesewhere, why would anyone bother with a tatty little mud and gravel aerodrome with no ILS and where the aircraft are left out in the rain? As well as having to find somewhere to live in one of the most expensive parts of the UK?
Is it cold and foggy at Jerez today? Somehow I don't think so.......let's see - the 0700 METAR is giving 070/03, CAVOK, +15/+10. Whereas at Oxford....too small and insignificant to post a METAR - but nearby Brize is 260/04, 250m in fog, broken at 100ft, +4/+4, NOSIG!
Espana la mejor??
Sorry - no advertising
[ 03 November 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]
[ 11 November 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Pop ]
Is it cold and foggy at Jerez today? Somehow I don't think so.......let's see - the 0700 METAR is giving 070/03, CAVOK, +15/+10. Whereas at Oxford....too small and insignificant to post a METAR - but nearby Brize is 260/04, 250m in fog, broken at 100ft, +4/+4, NOSIG!
Espana la mejor??
Sorry - no advertising
[ 03 November 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]
[ 11 November 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Pop ]
Join Date: Aug 2000
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bunnykiller - dont start saying things implying i am incompetent and should not be in the air, the fact of the matter is i am in the process of dealing with a few issues with OATS but getting hold of the right people let alone getting something done is very difficult.
Take your tired and boring ramblings elsewhere. The school is what you make of it at the end of the day like I keep saying. I had it as hard as its ever gonna get and I passed with a lot of hard work and diligence. Don't put people off, offer a reasonable argument and let them decide. Where else would you train if not Oxford? The impression I get is that many other FTO's in the UK are not as good as Oxford so why would you go there? money maybe?
Anyway i suggest you finish the course then start air your grievances.
You can always find good things in any situation, you just got to know where to look.
Take your tired and boring ramblings elsewhere. The school is what you make of it at the end of the day like I keep saying. I had it as hard as its ever gonna get and I passed with a lot of hard work and diligence. Don't put people off, offer a reasonable argument and let them decide. Where else would you train if not Oxford? The impression I get is that many other FTO's in the UK are not as good as Oxford so why would you go there? money maybe?
Anyway i suggest you finish the course then start air your grievances.
You can always find good things in any situation, you just got to know where to look.
Join Date: Sep 2001
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If you want good/better service from Oxford deal directly with the Modular people rather than Sales/Marketing.
They return your calls, respond to emails, (and even take your money if you want to pay for something!), and make time for you if you turn up in person.
In general the excellent instruction seems to make up for other shortfalls. I'd rather be with the school who goes bust last.....
They return your calls, respond to emails, (and even take your money if you want to pay for something!), and make time for you if you turn up in person.
In general the excellent instruction seems to make up for other shortfalls. I'd rather be with the school who goes bust last.....
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Flying schools seem uninterested in people wanting to spend £1000's with them for their training.
Its funny how customer service (not) is handled in some of these swank (not) UK flying schools at these major (not) UK aerodromes.
Not to mention names of course, but..
When I'm at home in the UK I often get the urge to be up there on a nice sunny day and I've phoned these places with my 'back of the cornflake packet' FAA ATP (did it for a laugh, I don't fly for the airlines).
I call up these 'hot shot' operations (which are really pee-ant places if you compare them to what's available in other countries). Conversation goes.
Me: I've got this FAA ATP & I want to get checked out and get some instruction on local procedures, etc. Basically whatever it takes to for you to be happy to let me take your plane and fly around for an hour or so.
Them: FAA? OK, you've got over 100 hours, we can convert you very easily to a CAA licence.
Me: Thanks, but I'm not interested in CAA licence, too much paperwork, and I don't need it to fly day VFR in the UK - which is all I want. So I'm happy to pay you whatever it takes for you to be confident I'm safe. I'm not interested in conversion.
Them: Well, not sure about that. (Then some ask who the FAA is !!) Let me talk to the chief instructor and we will call you back. We can certainly convert you, you really want to do that. They don't teach you over there in the US like they do here, you know.
Two days later I have heard nothing, I call them back
Me: Hi, I called the other day about renting a plane. You said you would call back.
Them: Who are you again?
So I tell them the story. They say they will call back. I never hear from them again.
Now.
I call some small outfit with a couple of planes in the boonies. The phone is answered by the chief flying instructor, owner of the club, owner of the planes, and somebody who just loves to teach and fly. These guys will call you when the weather is what you want, when there is an opening for a plane you want, take your money with a smile. Let you fly around when they have checked you out. Unfortunately these places are in dire financial straights too and the first to go out of business, leaving the big boys (yeh, big) to get away with crappy service again.
Anyway, is it any wonder that so many people go to the US to learn to fly? Its not only money, its because too many clubs back home in the UK have employees with their heads so far up their back ends they cannot tell whether its sunny or cloudy outside.
[ 10 November 2001: Message edited by: slim_slag ]
Its funny how customer service (not) is handled in some of these swank (not) UK flying schools at these major (not) UK aerodromes.
Not to mention names of course, but..
When I'm at home in the UK I often get the urge to be up there on a nice sunny day and I've phoned these places with my 'back of the cornflake packet' FAA ATP (did it for a laugh, I don't fly for the airlines).
I call up these 'hot shot' operations (which are really pee-ant places if you compare them to what's available in other countries). Conversation goes.
Me: I've got this FAA ATP & I want to get checked out and get some instruction on local procedures, etc. Basically whatever it takes to for you to be happy to let me take your plane and fly around for an hour or so.
Them: FAA? OK, you've got over 100 hours, we can convert you very easily to a CAA licence.
Me: Thanks, but I'm not interested in CAA licence, too much paperwork, and I don't need it to fly day VFR in the UK - which is all I want. So I'm happy to pay you whatever it takes for you to be confident I'm safe. I'm not interested in conversion.
Them: Well, not sure about that. (Then some ask who the FAA is !!) Let me talk to the chief instructor and we will call you back. We can certainly convert you, you really want to do that. They don't teach you over there in the US like they do here, you know.
Two days later I have heard nothing, I call them back
Me: Hi, I called the other day about renting a plane. You said you would call back.
Them: Who are you again?
So I tell them the story. They say they will call back. I never hear from them again.
Now.
I call some small outfit with a couple of planes in the boonies. The phone is answered by the chief flying instructor, owner of the club, owner of the planes, and somebody who just loves to teach and fly. These guys will call you when the weather is what you want, when there is an opening for a plane you want, take your money with a smile. Let you fly around when they have checked you out. Unfortunately these places are in dire financial straights too and the first to go out of business, leaving the big boys (yeh, big) to get away with crappy service again.
Anyway, is it any wonder that so many people go to the US to learn to fly? Its not only money, its because too many clubs back home in the UK have employees with their heads so far up their back ends they cannot tell whether its sunny or cloudy outside.
[ 10 November 2001: Message edited by: slim_slag ]
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Well i have to put my 2 pence worth too.. I did really several times and the receptionist the way she carried on thought it was her own company and didnt give a damn in helping..Companys need customers especcially at this time and not to forget what type of image she is giving as if the comapny is already going down..Me personelly would tell her not to bother coming in on Monday. 
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Nothing wrong with criticism if and where it's due but, I can't be the only one weary of the tide of negativism directed not only towards Oxford but in other postings, also to near enough every other major training organisation at the moment - how deep and prolonged do we want the current downturn to be?
Things are tough out there at the moment and I can't commiserate enough with those that have lost jobs / money in the present environment.
I'm continuing with the studies. Where? Oxford. Why? Well, no organisation of Oxford's size can be expected to be wholly without fault but, I can only speak of my own experience and that is that so far, I have personally found Oxford to be every bit as good as the open day there 18 months back had led me to believe they would be.
The 8 first time passes in Phase One that I achieved by distance learning, was considerably better than that achieved by other colleagues who'd eventually ended up choosing the Oxford route after experiences elsewhere. And, as other postings have indicated, I too can only vouch for the excellence of the modular ground training team there. As anywhere, to a great extent, it's what you make of the opportunities and facilities available to you.
It can be no coincidence that the RAF have chosen to outsource some of their multi-engine / CPL training to Oxford or, that Boeing/Jeppesen decided to back Oxford's study materials for JAA ATPL purposes - they could have chosen elsewhere. Anywhere considered good enough for either of these organisations has to have something going for it.
I'm presently gearing up for the Phase Two exams there and looking forward to following with the CPL course in January.
Over a number of years, I've personally known and followed the fortunes of ten self-improvers. Did they have tough times? Yes. Were they all immediately successful in getting flying jobs? No - some waited in other jobs up to two years for an opening. Do they all have flying jobs now? Yes. Have any been made redundant by the current problems? To the best of my knowledge - no. Did they have a single attribute in common? Well, quite simply - in times of stress (and they had plenty of their own), they tended not to resort to mud flinging - and, they never gave up hope.
Criticism and caution where it's due but, credit too. I'd have no hesitation in recommending Oxford's Ground Courses and material to anybody - will have to save comment on the flying side until I have experienced it.
Things are tough out there at the moment and I can't commiserate enough with those that have lost jobs / money in the present environment.
I'm continuing with the studies. Where? Oxford. Why? Well, no organisation of Oxford's size can be expected to be wholly without fault but, I can only speak of my own experience and that is that so far, I have personally found Oxford to be every bit as good as the open day there 18 months back had led me to believe they would be.
The 8 first time passes in Phase One that I achieved by distance learning, was considerably better than that achieved by other colleagues who'd eventually ended up choosing the Oxford route after experiences elsewhere. And, as other postings have indicated, I too can only vouch for the excellence of the modular ground training team there. As anywhere, to a great extent, it's what you make of the opportunities and facilities available to you.
It can be no coincidence that the RAF have chosen to outsource some of their multi-engine / CPL training to Oxford or, that Boeing/Jeppesen decided to back Oxford's study materials for JAA ATPL purposes - they could have chosen elsewhere. Anywhere considered good enough for either of these organisations has to have something going for it.
I'm presently gearing up for the Phase Two exams there and looking forward to following with the CPL course in January.
Over a number of years, I've personally known and followed the fortunes of ten self-improvers. Did they have tough times? Yes. Were they all immediately successful in getting flying jobs? No - some waited in other jobs up to two years for an opening. Do they all have flying jobs now? Yes. Have any been made redundant by the current problems? To the best of my knowledge - no. Did they have a single attribute in common? Well, quite simply - in times of stress (and they had plenty of their own), they tended not to resort to mud flinging - and, they never gave up hope.
Criticism and caution where it's due but, credit too. I'd have no hesitation in recommending Oxford's Ground Courses and material to anybody - will have to save comment on the flying side until I have experienced it.
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Well said, Cap/1
I totally agree with you.
I sympathise with those who have problems with OATS, however a well aimed phone call/letter/email to those in charge is the right place to start - if they don't know about the problem, they can't fix it.
I totally agree with you.
I sympathise with those who have problems with OATS, however a well aimed phone call/letter/email to those in charge is the right place to start - if they don't know about the problem, they can't fix it.
