JAR licence conversions in the USA (from Aussie - JAR)
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JAR licence conversions in the USA (from Aussie - JAR)
Does anyone know if the training required for the conversion of a Aussie ATPL to a JAR is avaliable in the USA?
The reason for asking is that I would assume it is cheaper to do the assoc. flight tests in the USA, and the theory in the UK...
In my case, I would need to do the CIR training and test, or an approved multi pilot type rating and test....
or is the USA really just a front for hour building, to go back to the UK?
cheers......
The reason for asking is that I would assume it is cheaper to do the assoc. flight tests in the USA, and the theory in the UK...
In my case, I would need to do the CIR training and test, or an approved multi pilot type rating and test....
or is the USA really just a front for hour building, to go back to the UK?
cheers......
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Yep - conversion courses available at (in alphabetical order)
Comair/Delta Connection
European Flight Training
and
International Flight Training
Other schools are in the pipeline - but not available today.
Don't forget - you wil need a visa.
<edit: - yeah, Desipilot is correct - see below>
Comair/Delta Connection
European Flight Training
and
International Flight Training
Other schools are in the pipeline - but not available today.
Don't forget - you wil need a visa.
<edit: - yeah, Desipilot is correct - see below>
Last edited by Keygrip; 18th Mar 2003 at 15:29.
The Bumblebee
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Keygrip,
You forgot Tyler Aviation in TX (OATS?) and Orlando Flight Training (CabAir?) in Kissimmee, it is my understanding that both these schools are also approved for JAA modular CPL courses.
Williamsf1,
You might want to check CAA's website for approved TRTO's. Presently there are JAA Approved TRTO's in USA. I believe Flight Safety in Seattle, Whichita and another company in Washington.
You forgot Tyler Aviation in TX (OATS?) and Orlando Flight Training (CabAir?) in Kissimmee, it is my understanding that both these schools are also approved for JAA modular CPL courses.
Williamsf1,
You might want to check CAA's website for approved TRTO's. Presently there are JAA Approved TRTO's in USA. I believe Flight Safety in Seattle, Whichita and another company in Washington.
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USA
Ok guys.....
thanks for the response so far, however I still can't find what I am looking for, so I'll post some more details here to fill in the blanks on what I have and want....
so Aussie to JAR....
I have a Australian ATPL with 3300 total time and about 2000 Multi engine turbine, in SA227 metroliners.....
I am looking to conduct the CHEAPEST conversion of this licence.
It seems fairly simple in the theory side of things, with Bristol in london being one if the easiest with a good home study kit etc.
so after passing the 14 subjects I need to get an CIR or a approved type rating for multi pilot aircraft...
I dont have to do the MCC as I have more than 500 multi crew.
questions for the masses
1) can I do the CIR training and test in the USA (costs please$$)
2) can I do a type rating in the USA (costs also)
thanks!!! any further info required please ask
thanks for the response so far, however I still can't find what I am looking for, so I'll post some more details here to fill in the blanks on what I have and want....
so Aussie to JAR....
I have a Australian ATPL with 3300 total time and about 2000 Multi engine turbine, in SA227 metroliners.....
I am looking to conduct the CHEAPEST conversion of this licence.
It seems fairly simple in the theory side of things, with Bristol in london being one if the easiest with a good home study kit etc.
so after passing the 14 subjects I need to get an CIR or a approved type rating for multi pilot aircraft...
I dont have to do the MCC as I have more than 500 multi crew.
questions for the masses
1) can I do the CIR training and test in the USA (costs please$$)
2) can I do a type rating in the USA (costs also)
thanks!!! any further info required please ask
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Conversion
I guess from your hours your conversion will be very fast.
In terms of cost, the theory exams are 70$ in the US, a bit more in Europe, Flight safety does them for 150$.
I would assume you can go directly to ATP in relation with your amount of hours.
And as far as the Flight training, I would assume you just need a max of 10 hours training to get used to local procedures and area.
Take care
In terms of cost, the theory exams are 70$ in the US, a bit more in Europe, Flight safety does them for 150$.
I would assume you can go directly to ATP in relation with your amount of hours.
And as far as the Flight training, I would assume you just need a max of 10 hours training to get used to local procedures and area.
Take care
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Williams,
You are required to pass all the 14 written exams before you can do the CPL skill test. Since you already hold ICAO ATP, you dont have to do the approved course. In your case it will be training as required, however, you will be required to go to an approved FTO to do the training. You can also do the IR Training in the USA, but you will have to do the flight test in the EU airspace.
I have been told that if you are not an American citizen you cannot do first time type ratings anymore. I do recommend getting in touch with one of the TRTO's in the USA. You can find out their address and contact details at CAA's website.
Good luck with your flight training.
You are required to pass all the 14 written exams before you can do the CPL skill test. Since you already hold ICAO ATP, you dont have to do the approved course. In your case it will be training as required, however, you will be required to go to an approved FTO to do the training. You can also do the IR Training in the USA, but you will have to do the flight test in the EU airspace.
I have been told that if you are not an American citizen you cannot do first time type ratings anymore. I do recommend getting in touch with one of the TRTO's in the USA. You can find out their address and contact details at CAA's website.
Good luck with your flight training.
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To williams,
i am in a similar boat to you, ATPL, 2500TT, with 700 turbine but no turbine command, so to whoever, lets say i get the usa visa, convert my licence, do instrument rating and then test in europe, what would be the approx. cost involve and what would be the requirements for doing JAA ATPL subjects, would i have to do them all or just some.
cheers flying circus
i am in a similar boat to you, ATPL, 2500TT, with 700 turbine but no turbine command, so to whoever, lets say i get the usa visa, convert my licence, do instrument rating and then test in europe, what would be the approx. cost involve and what would be the requirements for doing JAA ATPL subjects, would i have to do them all or just some.
cheers flying circus
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Well I am still a little confused, but the information is slowly coming together.....
It looks like Florida might be the place to do the cheapest JAR conversion, but here are some new questions for those of you that have either been there, and done that, or just know better
1) medical? can that be done in the USA (florida also?)cost?
2) instead of the CIR conversion, and having to go back to the UK or EU, can you do a multipilot type rating at say, FLIGHTSAFETY?also the costs of this?
3) once this has all been done, who actually issues you with the licence???? or can you go to any JAA state, with a mix bag of results and qualify?
flying circus, you would have to do all 14 like me see redsnail's posts in the UK section for more info on this.....
It looks like Florida might be the place to do the cheapest JAR conversion, but here are some new questions for those of you that have either been there, and done that, or just know better
1) medical? can that be done in the USA (florida also?)cost?
2) instead of the CIR conversion, and having to go back to the UK or EU, can you do a multipilot type rating at say, FLIGHTSAFETY?also the costs of this?
3) once this has all been done, who actually issues you with the licence???? or can you go to any JAA state, with a mix bag of results and qualify?
flying circus, you would have to do all 14 like me
see redsnail's posts in the UK section for more info on this.....
Hi Williamsf1
I am in your situation also (Aust ATPL+SA227):
Option 1: do the 14 exams......(good luck!!!)
Option 2: get a national licence from one of the 11 new EU members, then wait until MAY 2004 and convert it into a JAA.
I am currently looking at option 2, it would be a lot easier and cheaper.
For info, I don't think Metros are multi-crew A/Cs, check it out on the CAA web site.....
As you know even Metro III (>5700kg) are flown in OZ single pilot.
Cheers
I am in your situation also (Aust ATPL+SA227):
Option 1: do the 14 exams......(good luck!!!)
Option 2: get a national licence from one of the 11 new EU members, then wait until MAY 2004 and convert it into a JAA.
I am currently looking at option 2, it would be a lot easier and cheaper.
For info, I don't think Metros are multi-crew A/Cs, check it out on the CAA web site.....
As you know even Metro III (>5700kg) are flown in OZ single pilot.
Cheers
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74world, WilliamsF1,
I don't want to be a spoilsport, but 74's 'Option 2' does not exsist, as there is no connection between beeing an EU member state and beeing a JAA member state who has been recomended for mutual recognition of pilots licences. Sorry.
74 is absolutely right, though, regarding the Metro: All Swearingen/Fairhilds SA226/227's are SPA. They are now also classified as HPA (High Performance Aircraft), with the added upcoming requirements regarding HPA's.
You'll find the answers to most of your questions here , in Subpart A, Appx 1 to JAR-FCL 1.005 (page 1-A-13) and in Subpart F, lots of relevant items.
Cheers, and good luck
I don't want to be a spoilsport, but 74's 'Option 2' does not exsist, as there is no connection between beeing an EU member state and beeing a JAA member state who has been recomended for mutual recognition of pilots licences. Sorry.
74 is absolutely right, though, regarding the Metro: All Swearingen/Fairhilds SA226/227's are SPA. They are now also classified as HPA (High Performance Aircraft), with the added upcoming requirements regarding HPA's.
You'll find the answers to most of your questions here , in Subpart A, Appx 1 to JAR-FCL 1.005 (page 1-A-13) and in Subpart F, lots of relevant items.
Cheers, and good luck
Hi redbar,
I am currently looking atoption 2, I have already approached couplr of CC in Eastern Europe, countries wich are NOT yet FULL members........
People in those counties are still using their NATIONAL licences to fly.......
For info, some of my colleagues have obtained JAA licences via 2 different systems:
1- in UK 3000H total, 1500H PIC on A/C >30T = 2 Exams and a sim ride.
2- through the Dutch civil aviation before Holland became a full member
Most of the guys in option 2 never flew jet, they were flying for companies like Dennim Air, Air nostrum..........they've been very lucky I guess, no 14 exams to do!!!!
I don't see why it would be different for countries in Eastern Europe (ie: Croatia, Slovekia....)
Cheers
I am currently looking atoption 2, I have already approached couplr of CC in Eastern Europe, countries wich are NOT yet FULL members........
People in those counties are still using their NATIONAL licences to fly.......
For info, some of my colleagues have obtained JAA licences via 2 different systems:
1- in UK 3000H total, 1500H PIC on A/C >30T = 2 Exams and a sim ride.
2- through the Dutch civil aviation before Holland became a full member
Most of the guys in option 2 never flew jet, they were flying for companies like Dennim Air, Air nostrum..........they've been very lucky I guess, no 14 exams to do!!!!
I don't see why it would be different for countries in Eastern Europe (ie: Croatia, Slovekia....)
Cheers
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Hi 74,
No problem with the transformation process from Nat'l to JAR-FCL licence after a full JAA member state is recomended for mutual recognition of licenes.
The point is
May 2004 and EU has no influence on JAA acceptance of licences. The process goes as follows:
Step 0: Be a member state of ECAC
Step 1: Be accepted as candidate member of JAA
Step 2: Be accepted as full member of JAA - req's JAA visit to NCAA
Step 3: Implement relevant JARs
Step 4: JAA inspections to NCAA re each relevant JAR
Step 5: Be recomended for mutual recognition re each JAR
Step 6: You can transfer old NCAA licences to JAR-FCL-licences in accordance with JAR-FCL 1.005 Appx 1 as soon as step 5 is completed re JAR-FCL 1 and 3 (and 2 for Helicopters)
So, you must make sure the country you choose is in the above process, or you could be in for a long wait.
Cheers,
No problem with the transformation process from Nat'l to JAR-FCL licence after a full JAA member state is recomended for mutual recognition of licenes.
The point is
Option 2: get a national licence from one of the 11 new EU members, then wait until MAY 2004 and convert it into a JAA.
Step 0: Be a member state of ECAC
Step 1: Be accepted as candidate member of JAA
Step 2: Be accepted as full member of JAA - req's JAA visit to NCAA
Step 3: Implement relevant JARs
Step 4: JAA inspections to NCAA re each relevant JAR
Step 5: Be recomended for mutual recognition re each JAR
Step 6: You can transfer old NCAA licences to JAR-FCL-licences in accordance with JAR-FCL 1.005 Appx 1 as soon as step 5 is completed re JAR-FCL 1 and 3 (and 2 for Helicopters)
So, you must make sure the country you choose is in the above process, or you could be in for a long wait.
Cheers,
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Redbar has some good information, Does anybody know where I can find out more information on each of the 11 countries to find out how far advanced any of them are to being excepted JAR ?
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I've spent quite a few hours on the net exploring options for converting from Aussie to JAA and my outcome thus far is:
For someone in my boat.... ATPL 2000 TT, 1000 Multi Crew Turbine. (no experience in JAR designated Multi crew Aircraft)
It seems the cost of doing:
(a) the 14 exams by Distance Learning
(b) CPL Skills test (with 5 hrs training Just to be safe !!!)
(c) 15 hrs IR training and test
(d) MCC
(e) Travel, lodging, meals etc....
Comes to a sweet $40K Aussie
And I probably under estimated the travel costs etc.....
For someone in my boat.... ATPL 2000 TT, 1000 Multi Crew Turbine. (no experience in JAR designated Multi crew Aircraft)
It seems the cost of doing:
(a) the 14 exams by Distance Learning
(b) CPL Skills test (with 5 hrs training Just to be safe !!!)
(c) 15 hrs IR training and test
(d) MCC
(e) Travel, lodging, meals etc....
Comes to a sweet $40K Aussie
And I probably under estimated the travel costs etc.....
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Sad to say it, but in my opinion I do yhink you are very close to the mark at $40k oz ($26,000 USD). Through in couple of suprises and whamo, I have been told by a chap with a simular sitation as above (with more hours as well )and he blew about 30k usd appartently.
But then again, for many people it may be worth it, may pay for it self quickly.
But then again, for many people it may be worth it, may pay for it self quickly.
