uk flight training, long beach,california
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Dude,
I would have thought your radio skills would be pretty superior to the average UK trained PPL.
My experience of Long beach, from some hour building time, was that my radio skills were pretty bad compared to what was needed for speaking to SOCAL on a busy day. I learnt at a reasonably busy UK airfield, but nothing had prepared me for flying in LA!!
I would have thought your radio skills would be pretty superior to the average UK trained PPL.
My experience of Long beach, from some hour building time, was that my radio skills were pretty bad compared to what was needed for speaking to SOCAL on a busy day. I learnt at a reasonably busy UK airfield, but nothing had prepared me for flying in LA!!
Join Date: May 2003
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Dude
Dude,
If your instructor did such a bad job then it would have taken you more than an hour to do a checkout in the UK. Sounds like you were born to fly and learnt everything yourself. You should appreciate the time and the effort your instructor put to train you.
Radio procdures are different in each country. The Socal communication is just a little more work than London Flight Info.
If your instructor did such a bad job then it would have taken you more than an hour to do a checkout in the UK. Sounds like you were born to fly and learnt everything yourself. You should appreciate the time and the effort your instructor put to train you.
Radio procdures are different in each country. The Socal communication is just a little more work than London Flight Info.
Since vinil seems to have an axe to grind here, having rejuvenated this thread, let's get a bit of clarity into the proceedings.
First of all, UKFT is not approved to provide training for JAA licences. The information on their website and, coincidentally, in vinil's posts is very carefully, some might say deviously worded. UKFT claim to provide a "JAR Compliant PPL .... recognized in the UK as well as 186 International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) countries." Quite true, but this is, of course, no more than a FAA PPL which can be gained at any US flight school, in some cases at considerably less cost.
What was said in my last post remains absolutely correct - you can get a FAA PPL at UKFT and subsequently convert it to a JAA PPL (by passing all of the theoretical knowledge examinations and the PPL Skill Test). However, there is nothing to prevent an individual from gaining a FAA PPL elsewhere than UKFT and making their own arrangements with approved organisations in the UK or overseas for the necessary test and examinations.
None of the above is intended to denigrate, in any way, the training provided by UKFT, of which I have absolutely no experience. It is, however, important that potential customers understand exactly where UKFT stands, and that is in exactly the same place as any other US flight school offering training for FAA licences and ratings.
Incidentally, vinil is quite right to say that UKFT are still conducting training for the PPL, IMC and Twin. What he conveniently omits to say is that none of these is a JAA licence or rating. Yes, the PPL that UKFT provide is 'recognised' by the UK CAA - on the same basis as any other ICAO licence.
The rumour about a new FTO in Long Beach was not quite correct. The FTO concerned is, in fact, in the San Diego area and, I understand, has recently been visited by a CAA inspector. According to the CAA website, however, it has not yet received approval.
First of all, UKFT is not approved to provide training for JAA licences. The information on their website and, coincidentally, in vinil's posts is very carefully, some might say deviously worded. UKFT claim to provide a "JAR Compliant PPL .... recognized in the UK as well as 186 International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) countries." Quite true, but this is, of course, no more than a FAA PPL which can be gained at any US flight school, in some cases at considerably less cost.
What was said in my last post remains absolutely correct - you can get a FAA PPL at UKFT and subsequently convert it to a JAA PPL (by passing all of the theoretical knowledge examinations and the PPL Skill Test). However, there is nothing to prevent an individual from gaining a FAA PPL elsewhere than UKFT and making their own arrangements with approved organisations in the UK or overseas for the necessary test and examinations.
None of the above is intended to denigrate, in any way, the training provided by UKFT, of which I have absolutely no experience. It is, however, important that potential customers understand exactly where UKFT stands, and that is in exactly the same place as any other US flight school offering training for FAA licences and ratings.
Incidentally, vinil is quite right to say that UKFT are still conducting training for the PPL, IMC and Twin. What he conveniently omits to say is that none of these is a JAA licence or rating. Yes, the PPL that UKFT provide is 'recognised' by the UK CAA - on the same basis as any other ICAO licence.
The rumour about a new FTO in Long Beach was not quite correct. The FTO concerned is, in fact, in the San Diego area and, I understand, has recently been visited by a CAA inspector. According to the CAA website, however, it has not yet received approval.
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BilliBob
I don't think your assertion that you need to convert is true, based on their text at: http://www.rainbowair.com/academy_JAA-CAA_PPL.htm
They clearly state: 'There is no conversion of licence when you return to the U.K.'
It looks like UKFT has teamed up with Rainbow Air to offer the course. My only word of caution is to look closely when you would want to attend. Some months the LA basin can be like flying in pea soup; which as a trainee pilot means only one thing: lots of days spent sitting drinking coffee.
Of course, its better to phone the club up and ask directly. The man I knew at Rainbow Air is a Brit called David Parsons. Nice chap, and he'll even pick you up from LAX if you ask nicely!
I don't think your assertion that you need to convert is true, based on their text at: http://www.rainbowair.com/academy_JAA-CAA_PPL.htm
They clearly state: 'There is no conversion of licence when you return to the U.K.'
It looks like UKFT has teamed up with Rainbow Air to offer the course. My only word of caution is to look closely when you would want to attend. Some months the LA basin can be like flying in pea soup; which as a trainee pilot means only one thing: lots of days spent sitting drinking coffee.
Of course, its better to phone the club up and ask directly. The man I knew at Rainbow Air is a Brit called David Parsons. Nice chap, and he'll even pick you up from LAX if you ask nicely!
Quite correct, No.2, all you can get from UKFT (or Rainbow Air for that matter) is a FAA PPL, which will afford you the same privileges in the UK as any other ICAO licence.
Can't name the new FTO, I'm afraid, but it's well established in the UK. Keep your eye on the CAA list.
Can't name the new FTO, I'm afraid, but it's well established in the UK. Keep your eye on the CAA list.
What rubbish, no sponsor!! Of course a FAA PPL holder can fly a G-reg aircraft, and one registered in any of the other ICAO contracting States for that matter. He cannot, however, fly for the purposes of public transport or aerial work (including flight instruction) or in controlled airspace where IFR is mandatory (whether or not he has an instrument rating). Try reading the ANO, Article 21.
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So how come I had to go and convert my JAA licence to a FAA licence to fly N registered aircraft? I also had to get a certificate from CASA to fly a VH- registered aircraft?
You can't just rock up at a foreign club, flash your licence, and hope to be checked out to go solo. If you know of a place, let me know, since it saves time and money!
Anyway, back to the point of the post, I guess it's best to phone UKFT/Rainbow and see what they've got to say. Seems odd they claim to be recognised when their name is not under the approved FTO list from the CAA.
You can't just rock up at a foreign club, flash your licence, and hope to be checked out to go solo. If you know of a place, let me know, since it saves time and money!
Anyway, back to the point of the post, I guess it's best to phone UKFT/Rainbow and see what they've got to say. Seems odd they claim to be recognised when their name is not under the approved FTO list from the CAA.
Last edited by no sponsor; 14th Sep 2003 at 05:55.
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Flying in the UK
You can all go on about it but the bottom line is that I am happily flying in the UK on a PPL gained at UKFT. I got my JAA and my FAA PPL with them. I also saved thousands by learning to fly in the USA.
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I'm thinking about booking a PPL course at UK Flight Training in Long Beach. I've read the rest of the posts here and I'm aware of the JAA/FAA issues
I've been in touch with the school and it's true that they used to offer the JAA PPL but that is no longer the case. If you want a full JAA licence then you have to convert
Anyway aside from this issue I was wondering if anyone has been there recently and what the standard of tuition was like and the overall atmosphere?
Any comments from people who have actually trained there recently would be appreciated
I don't want to open up the debate about whether or not they are CAA approved or not as the position with regards to that is fairly clear already
Thanks
I've been in touch with the school and it's true that they used to offer the JAA PPL but that is no longer the case. If you want a full JAA licence then you have to convert
Anyway aside from this issue I was wondering if anyone has been there recently and what the standard of tuition was like and the overall atmosphere?
Any comments from people who have actually trained there recently would be appreciated
I don't want to open up the debate about whether or not they are CAA approved or not as the position with regards to that is fairly clear already
Thanks
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I recently trained with them. They took very good care of me and instruction was fantastic. I really think it was worth every penny learning to fly at Long Beach. The training was very comprehensive and I have had no problems flying here in the UK. I was flying in the same airspace with C17s and other heavy commercial aircraft.
I also checked with the CAA and decided to train with UKFT. The CAA verified what UKFT was stating to me was correct.
I also checked with the CAA and decided to train with UKFT. The CAA verified what UKFT was stating to me was correct.
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You wouldn't happen to work for them would you?
Forgive my cynicism but it looks like you'e only made 2 posts and both are praising UK Flight Training
I apologise if you are genuine
But I have my doubts
Forgive my cynicism but it looks like you'e only made 2 posts and both are praising UK Flight Training
I apologise if you are genuine
But I have my doubts
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UK Flight Training in Long Beach, CA is NOT AUTHORIZED by the CAA to train for PPL. Anglo-American Academy in San Diego, CA is authorized.
Check the CAA website !
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_fcl_ApprovedFTOs.pdf page 5
Check the CAA website !
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_fcl_ApprovedFTOs.pdf page 5
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Trouble is that Anglo American in San Diego aren't authorised to issue I-20s to enable you to obtain a student visa
Last time I spoke to them they advised me to travel on a Visa waiver
I would suggest it's easier to convert over to a JAA licence at some point after training elsewere,than it would be to clear up a refused entry on your immigration record
I travel to the states quite a bit so I don't want to be in a grey area when it comes to the INS
Hence at the moment AAA is a non runner for me
Last time I spoke to them they advised me to travel on a Visa waiver
I would suggest it's easier to convert over to a JAA licence at some point after training elsewere,than it would be to clear up a refused entry on your immigration record
I travel to the states quite a bit so I don't want to be in a grey area when it comes to the INS
Hence at the moment AAA is a non runner for me
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UKFT
I did my PPL at UKFT and got my JAA and FAA PPL with them. They are based at Long Beach airport. They sent me the I20 form needed to obtain a student visa. They do not need to be on the CAA's list to offer a JAA PPL. You can contact the CAA and they will inform you with the details or check with the school.
