Ryanair Humour Page !
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But then if you get the job with Ryan you will earn more in the next decade than any other charter pilot, any other low cost pilot and any scheduled pilot will in the same period. In fact any other airline pilot job in the UK.
So it swings and roundabouts. Plenty of Ryan EGSS FO's earning more than £50k a year you know... and driving a brand new 738 Next Gen aircraft to boot. And not worrying about their job security.
Beats the hell out of Aer Lingus at the moment...
WWW
[ 21 October 2001: Message edited by: Wee Weasley Welshman ]
So it swings and roundabouts. Plenty of Ryan EGSS FO's earning more than £50k a year you know... and driving a brand new 738 Next Gen aircraft to boot. And not worrying about their job security.
Beats the hell out of Aer Lingus at the moment...
WWW
[ 21 October 2001: Message edited by: Wee Weasley Welshman ]
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is like one of those ads in the classified sections stating 'Find out how to make money from home ... send 10 pounds to this address for information'
Heard a nasty rumour last week that Ryan have a deal with he IAA wherby duty hours are from 5 mins AFTER brakes off to 5 mins BEFORE brakes on. After all taxying isn't like flying now is it? So when you are in the back of one remember that the pilot is likely to have worked 6 sectors plus one passenger sector a day for 7 days on with 2 days off and hope they wake up in time to flare!
[ 21 October 2001: Message edited by: Cruise Alt ]
Heard a nasty rumour last week that Ryan have a deal with he IAA wherby duty hours are from 5 mins AFTER brakes off to 5 mins BEFORE brakes on. After all taxying isn't like flying now is it? So when you are in the back of one remember that the pilot is likely to have worked 6 sectors plus one passenger sector a day for 7 days on with 2 days off and hope they wake up in time to flare!
[ 21 October 2001: Message edited by: Cruise Alt ]
Guest
Posts: n/a
As I said on the other thread about this over on R&N this is the way that things are done at a lot of airlines in the States (Southwest for one) and will be the case over here as well.
I think we can safely say that the aviation industry in the 21st century will be a very different creature to the one in the 20th!
I think we can safely say that the aviation industry in the 21st century will be a very different creature to the one in the 20th!
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Melmac
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is nothing other than short-term profiteering by a company who is willing to make money out of the dust of Sept. 11th well before it settles. It is one of the most singularly cynical pieces of corporate manipulation I have ever seen in this industry.
I had respect for the achievements of Mr O'Leary until this last month. Unfortunately, such an act places him in the same category as those who profit from refugees, those who up the price of a bottle of water, or a loaf of bread... a sweeping generalisation, but both have taken cynical advantage of their time and place to exploit their market. Why should they be considered differently?
And if other companies do similar... then why does that make it right? Why are they right? If nobody subscribed to their schemes, then they would have to lose them...... why must our industry be the one where such exploitation not only occurs, but is succoured, and even lauded by some sad adherents?
The only good thing is... deep down, O'Leary most likely knows that he is making profit at the expense of the events of September 11th, and pays the private price for it. He's paying the price for acts by firefighters, ambulancemen and the police he would never have had the courage to perform... only a coward would react in such a manner as he has. He can pout and posture on RTE, but quietly, in those moments before sleep, he knows EXACTLY what he is doing, and EXACTLY on whose backs he is riding.
[ 22 October 2001: Message edited by: Alien Shores ]
I had respect for the achievements of Mr O'Leary until this last month. Unfortunately, such an act places him in the same category as those who profit from refugees, those who up the price of a bottle of water, or a loaf of bread... a sweeping generalisation, but both have taken cynical advantage of their time and place to exploit their market. Why should they be considered differently?
And if other companies do similar... then why does that make it right? Why are they right? If nobody subscribed to their schemes, then they would have to lose them...... why must our industry be the one where such exploitation not only occurs, but is succoured, and even lauded by some sad adherents?
The only good thing is... deep down, O'Leary most likely knows that he is making profit at the expense of the events of September 11th, and pays the private price for it. He's paying the price for acts by firefighters, ambulancemen and the police he would never have had the courage to perform... only a coward would react in such a manner as he has. He can pout and posture on RTE, but quietly, in those moments before sleep, he knows EXACTLY what he is doing, and EXACTLY on whose backs he is riding.
[ 22 October 2001: Message edited by: Alien Shores ]
Guest
Posts: n/a
What is the point of students going through the Ab Initio course, coming out with a "Frozen ATPL", a huge amount of debt, and less than 200 hours of flying? They were lead to believe when they started out, that they had a reasonable chance of obtaining work at the end of the course.
Can anyone clarify how these unfortunates are now expected to have, dependant on the ailine, 300 to 1500 hours, before they can be considered for an airline job? That is, unless they can fund and find an instructor's job, many, many thousand more pounds worth of flying.
Surely, the ATPL course should bring trainees to reasonable minimum standards, since obviously, it was formulated by the JAA to do just this?
Can anyone clarify how these unfortunates are now expected to have, dependant on the ailine, 300 to 1500 hours, before they can be considered for an airline job? That is, unless they can fund and find an instructor's job, many, many thousand more pounds worth of flying.
Surely, the ATPL course should bring trainees to reasonable minimum standards, since obviously, it was formulated by the JAA to do just this?
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: BRS
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Supply and Demand. Right now the airlines can up the requirements to whatever they want. Those extra hours will have to come from instructing, air-taxi work, glider tugging etc., just as in the past. Only in the very best of times can a 300 hour frozen ATPL walk straight into an airline job. It has never been as easy as in the last 2 years or so, and that's all just ended.
Guest
Posts: n/a
The problem is that insurers - who have just increased their rates fivefold in some cases - don't like low timed pilots. Until you hit that magic 1,000+ hours (and preferably with at least half of that on multi turbines) life is going to be tough. Its a Catch 22; a vicious cycle - you can't build the hours unless you get a job; and you can't get a job unless you have the hours.
There are other costs to the airlines as well - it costs them far more to employ low timed people than it does someone that's fully qualified. Rostering, for example, is a nightmare as the most experienced pilots must always be rostered with low time people. Extra training and/or tuition may well be required. All of this is reflected in the lower pay levels offered to holders of FATPLs.
I certainly don't think that this approach by FR is going to be a short term one - it's been the way things have been done over in the States for many, many years.
As for the £15k rating cost, my understanding is that FR will arrange a bank loan for you that they will cover as long as you're with them. Of course, if you leave, you're fully liable.
I guess it comes down to choice. No one is holding a gun at anyone's head - do you want the job, or not?
There are other costs to the airlines as well - it costs them far more to employ low timed people than it does someone that's fully qualified. Rostering, for example, is a nightmare as the most experienced pilots must always be rostered with low time people. Extra training and/or tuition may well be required. All of this is reflected in the lower pay levels offered to holders of FATPLs.
I certainly don't think that this approach by FR is going to be a short term one - it's been the way things have been done over in the States for many, many years.
As for the £15k rating cost, my understanding is that FR will arrange a bank loan for you that they will cover as long as you're with them. Of course, if you leave, you're fully liable.
I guess it comes down to choice. No one is holding a gun at anyone's head - do you want the job, or not?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Message to WANNABEES:- DONT GIVE UP!!
I know that it may seem hard to believe right now, but the Industry that you want to join is not in terminal decline, just transition. OK, short term there will be problems, but you are more likely now to be able to negotiate good rates with flying schools, and stand a chance of jumping into a job when the market improves, as it surely will.
The shyster operators and cheapskate airlines may have a short-term ascendancy, but this is nothing new. In the past, this has always rebounded on the worst airlines, because they end up being a pool of experienced labour for the better ones when times improve.
How do I know? I graduated from OATS in 1974, a time of the 4-day week, oil price escalation, and the thunder of prophets of doom. I did get a job, although it was not well paid, and did slowly build hours, then I got a chance to fly a DC8 (right seat) for a UK cargo company. That went T.U. after a couple of years, so I ended up going abroad to work, and have done so very happily since 1980. Now, with a few years to go to retirement, I look back on it all and realise that it was worth it, even though I put my house on the line back in 1974, and earned peanuts for years, flying trips that now make me shudder.
My advice to you is:-
1. Pay for your flying training on Credit card, as protection against a school going bad.
2. Look around for the best deal on package courses, they are the best value, and in the competition for jobs, a good school helps.
3. Accept any job at first, just to get hours. When things pick up, you'll desert the shyster operators for those offering decent terms. Meantime, use them like they would exploit you!
4. Remember that so many prospective Wannabees will be put off for ever by the current situation, that the number of available pilots when the market does improve will be way down, and your chances of landing a good job correspondingly better.
5. Take a long term view of the investment, but also look hard at alternatives. An MBA in Aviation will also be a sound course; you have only to read some of the comments by airline managers in the pages of PPRUNE to realise that they are usually a pretty sorry lot!
6. Be flexible about where you fly, and be prepared to find work outside your home country, especially at first.
Oh, and finally, keep thinking positively!
Good luck....
I know that it may seem hard to believe right now, but the Industry that you want to join is not in terminal decline, just transition. OK, short term there will be problems, but you are more likely now to be able to negotiate good rates with flying schools, and stand a chance of jumping into a job when the market improves, as it surely will.
The shyster operators and cheapskate airlines may have a short-term ascendancy, but this is nothing new. In the past, this has always rebounded on the worst airlines, because they end up being a pool of experienced labour for the better ones when times improve.
How do I know? I graduated from OATS in 1974, a time of the 4-day week, oil price escalation, and the thunder of prophets of doom. I did get a job, although it was not well paid, and did slowly build hours, then I got a chance to fly a DC8 (right seat) for a UK cargo company. That went T.U. after a couple of years, so I ended up going abroad to work, and have done so very happily since 1980. Now, with a few years to go to retirement, I look back on it all and realise that it was worth it, even though I put my house on the line back in 1974, and earned peanuts for years, flying trips that now make me shudder.
My advice to you is:-
1. Pay for your flying training on Credit card, as protection against a school going bad.
2. Look around for the best deal on package courses, they are the best value, and in the competition for jobs, a good school helps.
3. Accept any job at first, just to get hours. When things pick up, you'll desert the shyster operators for those offering decent terms. Meantime, use them like they would exploit you!
4. Remember that so many prospective Wannabees will be put off for ever by the current situation, that the number of available pilots when the market does improve will be way down, and your chances of landing a good job correspondingly better.
5. Take a long term view of the investment, but also look hard at alternatives. An MBA in Aviation will also be a sound course; you have only to read some of the comments by airline managers in the pages of PPRUNE to realise that they are usually a pretty sorry lot!
6. Be flexible about where you fly, and be prepared to find work outside your home country, especially at first.
Oh, and finally, keep thinking positively!
Good luck....
