FTC-Africa v`s EFT Florida
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London. UK
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FTC ? Worth the grey hairs?
Folks, I can also vouch for much of the details you see on this topic. The overwhelming common denominator are the instructors; all good to great and the only real asset that FTC can now bank on. That alone cannot and does not make a good school. Lack of aircraft is a consistent problem and the recent demise of one of the PA28's which crash landed at night in Botswana only makes matters worse. Prior to that one of the new PA28's was stuffed into a tree after the PIC concerned neglected to do a weight and balance calc prior to exit from a short strip north of Grand Central; the area was hot and high so that's another 'frame in the drain.
Other aircraft are tied up in maintenance. Management is quite the most appalling I have ever come across; head in the sand attitude does not even come close to describing the situation. Students and staff alike appear to be treated with utter disdain alike. The high volume rantings of one management member in particular, are lengendary; to be heard throughout the top corridor of the offices with little thought as to the impressions it creates for new students.
FTC only continues to be a success because of the high calibre instructor staff who put the needs of the students first. Without them the whole thing would implode.
In closing, consider most stongly your reasons for travelling all the way to SA to do any training with them. Cost is not everthing and your experience will not be without several headaches over and above those which could be considered reasonable.
You will have fun and SA is a wonderful place to fly. But.........?
Other aircraft are tied up in maintenance. Management is quite the most appalling I have ever come across; head in the sand attitude does not even come close to describing the situation. Students and staff alike appear to be treated with utter disdain alike. The high volume rantings of one management member in particular, are lengendary; to be heard throughout the top corridor of the offices with little thought as to the impressions it creates for new students.
FTC only continues to be a success because of the high calibre instructor staff who put the needs of the students first. Without them the whole thing would implode.
In closing, consider most stongly your reasons for travelling all the way to SA to do any training with them. Cost is not everthing and your experience will not be without several headaches over and above those which could be considered reasonable.
You will have fun and SA is a wonderful place to fly. But.........?
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Around the world, at present in Indonesia & UK
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well Said
I'm not going to say more (unless necessary Oscar) but thank you Sk8erboi & Bucket for continuing to warn others.
Except, did they get a new flight sim, seeing as they 'lost' the old one? I see it is advertised.
I'm sorry to hear about the Botty prang. Anyone hurt? Hope not!
Hopefully the Ranting Duo will realise that they are not suited for a service business & go and set up a market stall where they can rant & rave until they are hoarse.
As we all know, they can buy & sell commodities well, so then they could buy & sell for a maximum profit whichever commodity they prefered. Just not people!
Did you former victims know they were thinking of moving to the very edge of GC, taking over the old 'Buck Rogers' hangar?
Best of Luck in your flying endeavours.
Except, did they get a new flight sim, seeing as they 'lost' the old one? I see it is advertised.
I'm sorry to hear about the Botty prang. Anyone hurt? Hope not!
Hopefully the Ranting Duo will realise that they are not suited for a service business & go and set up a market stall where they can rant & rave until they are hoarse.
As we all know, they can buy & sell commodities well, so then they could buy & sell for a maximum profit whichever commodity they prefered. Just not people!
Did you former victims know they were thinking of moving to the very edge of GC, taking over the old 'Buck Rogers' hangar?
Best of Luck in your flying endeavours.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BFS
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yeah it was me with the licence sk8.
Basically I had the finished day before i went travelling. THe HoT promised to send it to my hotel so I could fly whilst I was away. However someone in admin decided not to send it to me as they thought I owed money. I didn't, it had been deposited in their IoM bank, no one had bothered to check. My greivance is therefore on 2 fronts;
1. I didn't bloody well owe money.
2. I should have been told, not left waiting in a hotel for a licence to arrive.
I will stress here that it was an admin decision, none of the instructors or the HoT knew about it and I have no doubt that if they had it would have been rectified. The whole sorry affair has spoiled what had been a good experience thus far.
I think the place takes a lot of criticism here.Yes the accomodation is a bit basic. I'm not here for a holiday though so doesn't bother me too much. The planes are very good compared to any I've been in in the UK. The instructors are excellent. Management is a bit lacking in forward thinking which seems to cause most of the problems you read here. If you come with a determined attitude to get the work done you should be fine. It's not put on a plate for you. Big deal, thats why we are on the modular route. You want to be sppon fed, go integrated
Basically I had the finished day before i went travelling. THe HoT promised to send it to my hotel so I could fly whilst I was away. However someone in admin decided not to send it to me as they thought I owed money. I didn't, it had been deposited in their IoM bank, no one had bothered to check. My greivance is therefore on 2 fronts;
1. I didn't bloody well owe money.
2. I should have been told, not left waiting in a hotel for a licence to arrive.
I will stress here that it was an admin decision, none of the instructors or the HoT knew about it and I have no doubt that if they had it would have been rectified. The whole sorry affair has spoiled what had been a good experience thus far.
I think the place takes a lot of criticism here.Yes the accomodation is a bit basic. I'm not here for a holiday though so doesn't bother me too much. The planes are very good compared to any I've been in in the UK. The instructors are excellent. Management is a bit lacking in forward thinking which seems to cause most of the problems you read here. If you come with a determined attitude to get the work done you should be fine. It's not put on a plate for you. Big deal, thats why we are on the modular route. You want to be sppon fed, go integrated
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: S Warwickshire
Posts: 1,214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
| agree here with Silverknapper.
You get good training at a very reasonable price and in a climate and environment that make for an enjoyable experience.
If you don't like the £9/night accommodation (including breakfast, laundry service and car share), you can always stay somewhere else.
I suffered late cancellations and problems with instructor availability (only 2 JAR CPL instructors), but would have still completed if it wasn't for the loss of their only available Arrow (a remarkable unscathed escape for those on board by the way, despite managing to hit trees in Botswana!).
I intend to go back and complete with FTC when 'LAR' is back.
My advice to anyone thinking of going there is to maybe allow a bit more time than you think, but push to get your bookings.
You get good training at a very reasonable price and in a climate and environment that make for an enjoyable experience.
If you don't like the £9/night accommodation (including breakfast, laundry service and car share), you can always stay somewhere else.
I suffered late cancellations and problems with instructor availability (only 2 JAR CPL instructors), but would have still completed if it wasn't for the loss of their only available Arrow (a remarkable unscathed escape for those on board by the way, despite managing to hit trees in Botswana!).
I intend to go back and complete with FTC when 'LAR' is back.
My advice to anyone thinking of going there is to maybe allow a bit more time than you think, but push to get your bookings.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Around the world, at present in Indonesia & UK
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Missed the Boat
M1 & SK,
You have both made some good points but if you read the full thread you will both see that most of the flying instructors are not the issue.
The issue is as SK puts it 'the admin' read 'the management', also including the top of flying in a smaller way.
The issue is not modular is a 3rd class system, the issue is honesty, decency and quality.
If you go into the Savoy you order a meal, 3 courses in the Grill, you expect the best for the price, you pay individually for the drinks, each course, and your wine. (Plus Cigars if you smoke)
We all know that hotels & restaurants call it 'A la Carte', flying calls it modular. In the rest of the world 'A la Carte' is better quality & more expensive than 'Table d' hote', flying calls it integrated.
This is because the integrated/table d' hote choice is cheaper, normally cheaper ingredients, as a cost base, therefore more profit.
Your experiences are both on the flying front, less of a hassle, but as you both said, there were problems.
Accom is not really a problem for 3 weeks but 6 months+ is a major deal.
Anyone's determined attitude will not defeat the bloody mindedness of a group of scoundrels when you are in their domain. Service is the watchword, overseas is the fact, they think you have less power.
M1, you should not have to 'GO BACK & COMPLETE' as it should only take 3 weeks & you could have used MHD, the back up arrow to LAR, don't hold your breath for LAR. Where was MHD? Bit of a cack (SA word) situation don't u think?
A true service pro would have let you do your complex time in the Seneca for the same rate, assuming that was airworthy, why didn't they?
We were often told by SAs & working Brits in FTC, "this is Africa", a degrading quote trying to justify poor service, diminishing what is a very good country on the continent of Africa.
Perhaps my view is too professional & customer caring.
I'm glad the pax onboard LAR were OK. Why did LAR hit trees in Botty?
Anyone with 3 years to spend and no money worries (Rich Daddy & very young) getting their frozen ATPL, would do well to go to FTC ((Teazers, House of Lords, as well as many more intimate locations in Midrand) SA is one of the 'swingingest' locations in the world). The trouble is I don't think too many people are like that.
Perhaps FTC should go pure Table d' hote, integrated!(Ab Initio)
Good Luck with your flying!
You have both made some good points but if you read the full thread you will both see that most of the flying instructors are not the issue.
The issue is as SK puts it 'the admin' read 'the management', also including the top of flying in a smaller way.
The issue is not modular is a 3rd class system, the issue is honesty, decency and quality.
If you go into the Savoy you order a meal, 3 courses in the Grill, you expect the best for the price, you pay individually for the drinks, each course, and your wine. (Plus Cigars if you smoke)
We all know that hotels & restaurants call it 'A la Carte', flying calls it modular. In the rest of the world 'A la Carte' is better quality & more expensive than 'Table d' hote', flying calls it integrated.
This is because the integrated/table d' hote choice is cheaper, normally cheaper ingredients, as a cost base, therefore more profit.
Your experiences are both on the flying front, less of a hassle, but as you both said, there were problems.
Accom is not really a problem for 3 weeks but 6 months+ is a major deal.
Anyone's determined attitude will not defeat the bloody mindedness of a group of scoundrels when you are in their domain. Service is the watchword, overseas is the fact, they think you have less power.
M1, you should not have to 'GO BACK & COMPLETE' as it should only take 3 weeks & you could have used MHD, the back up arrow to LAR, don't hold your breath for LAR. Where was MHD? Bit of a cack (SA word) situation don't u think?
A true service pro would have let you do your complex time in the Seneca for the same rate, assuming that was airworthy, why didn't they?
We were often told by SAs & working Brits in FTC, "this is Africa", a degrading quote trying to justify poor service, diminishing what is a very good country on the continent of Africa.
Perhaps my view is too professional & customer caring.
I'm glad the pax onboard LAR were OK. Why did LAR hit trees in Botty?
Anyone with 3 years to spend and no money worries (Rich Daddy & very young) getting their frozen ATPL, would do well to go to FTC ((Teazers, House of Lords, as well as many more intimate locations in Midrand) SA is one of the 'swingingest' locations in the world). The trouble is I don't think too many people are like that.
Perhaps FTC should go pure Table d' hote, integrated!(Ab Initio)
Good Luck with your flying!
Last edited by Flying Boat; 5th Apr 2003 at 05:38.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Warks
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think most of the people who have few complaints about FTC have had little experience of other schools. Out of the 3 schools I have trained at, 2 treated me like a customer, 1 treated me like a cash cow (guess which school I'm talking about).
An example: One day I was sitting in reception in FTC on a Sunday when it was very quiet. One of the ladies who works behind the desk came up to me and told me I wasn't allowed to sit on the chairs as 'they are for the customers'. Clearly spending 10 grand with a school does not qualify you as a customer. I wonder how much you have to spend for them to allow you to sit down in your flying school.
Couple that with the fact that, due to an administrative error, I was overcharged by nearly 600GBP for my course, which nearly 10 months later they still haven't given me back, and you can understand why I am p****d off. Any attempts of mine to retrieve my money leads to the management threatening to sue me for libel (essentially for stating facts about them on PPRuNe).
As for the quality of instruction, I have my opinions about that but am not prepared to discuss it publically.
TB
An example: One day I was sitting in reception in FTC on a Sunday when it was very quiet. One of the ladies who works behind the desk came up to me and told me I wasn't allowed to sit on the chairs as 'they are for the customers'. Clearly spending 10 grand with a school does not qualify you as a customer. I wonder how much you have to spend for them to allow you to sit down in your flying school.
Couple that with the fact that, due to an administrative error, I was overcharged by nearly 600GBP for my course, which nearly 10 months later they still haven't given me back, and you can understand why I am p****d off. Any attempts of mine to retrieve my money leads to the management threatening to sue me for libel (essentially for stating facts about them on PPRuNe).
As for the quality of instruction, I have my opinions about that but am not prepared to discuss it publically.
TB
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with TB and FB.
'This is Africa' Well why are we paying in pounds....apart from the obvious. It is apparently now possible to complete the entire syllabus bar part of the IR at FTC!!! Well good luck, you'll need it. FB it was MHD that crashed, LAR is working but wasn't released from the maintenance company for some reason. To give you an idea of their training track record, 2 people went to FTC to complete CPL. 2 people returned without them. One of which wasn't down to the lask of a complex single caused by the crash but to the school. One person went for a multi rating, one returned without it. That was in one month.
SK i'm surprised you don't really fault the accomodation, the rat was in your bed if i'm correct?!
My opinion of FTC is very low. TB is correct, you are there to supply money not to be taught. I have it from a source that the company at a meeting decided not to spend anything which is not going to give an immediate return. So much for long term outlook.
SK someone is bulls?!~"ng you. I was there remember. They deliberately held you to ransom with your own property. I heard the owner do it, for crying out loud do not stand for it. You saw how much they messed people around. You have a genuine cause to report them. Do it.
'This is Africa' Well why are we paying in pounds....apart from the obvious. It is apparently now possible to complete the entire syllabus bar part of the IR at FTC!!! Well good luck, you'll need it. FB it was MHD that crashed, LAR is working but wasn't released from the maintenance company for some reason. To give you an idea of their training track record, 2 people went to FTC to complete CPL. 2 people returned without them. One of which wasn't down to the lask of a complex single caused by the crash but to the school. One person went for a multi rating, one returned without it. That was in one month.
SK i'm surprised you don't really fault the accomodation, the rat was in your bed if i'm correct?!
My opinion of FTC is very low. TB is correct, you are there to supply money not to be taught. I have it from a source that the company at a meeting decided not to spend anything which is not going to give an immediate return. So much for long term outlook.
SK someone is bulls?!~"ng you. I was there remember. They deliberately held you to ransom with your own property. I heard the owner do it, for crying out loud do not stand for it. You saw how much they messed people around. You have a genuine cause to report them. Do it.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Around the world, at present in Indonesia & UK
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Proof that I am not on a vendetta!
This week I have learnt of a very bad accident one of our study colleagues had.
He had a motorcycle accident just 2 weeks before going home.
He was taken to a local hospital to do whatever seriously ill people do in local SA hospitals.
The owner of FTC apparently arranged for him to be moved to a much better hospital in Pretoria, where he is still recovering.
Is my information correct? Can someone correct me?
If my info is correct, thank you to the owner for helping him!
I hope our colleague recovers back to class1 fitness quickly.
FB
He had a motorcycle accident just 2 weeks before going home.
He was taken to a local hospital to do whatever seriously ill people do in local SA hospitals.
The owner of FTC apparently arranged for him to be moved to a much better hospital in Pretoria, where he is still recovering.
Is my information correct? Can someone correct me?
If my info is correct, thank you to the owner for helping him!
I hope our colleague recovers back to class1 fitness quickly.
FB
