USA entry
Join Date: Dec 2002
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B.G.
if you have a green card, u dont need foreign cetificates.
the green card is a permanent residence, the next step is the passport. you should not say you are british but a futur yankee!
The US doesnt really care of your british licenses!
the best way is to go to the US under a B2 visa and go talk directly to the FSDO, ask the chief manager, not the secretary!
they will issue you a FAA validation at no cost...forget this CAA form, it s just a scam !
I know what I am talking about, I have a long experience with the yankees, post and pre 9/11
if you have a green card, u dont need foreign cetificates.
the green card is a permanent residence, the next step is the passport. you should not say you are british but a futur yankee!
The US doesnt really care of your british licenses!
the best way is to go to the US under a B2 visa and go talk directly to the FSDO, ask the chief manager, not the secretary!
they will issue you a FAA validation at no cost...forget this CAA form, it s just a scam !
I know what I am talking about, I have a long experience with the yankees, post and pre 9/11
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you should not say you are british but a futur yankee!
This is a bit dangerous. If you do not say you are British, what do you say you are? If you claim to be a US citizen when you are not you break the law in a big way. If you look on the US citizenship application form they specifically ask whether you have pretended to be a US citizen. (Together with some far more ridiculous questions, but I digress).
If you are a green card holder, you need to tell them that you intend to permanently reside in the United States. That's all. You don't need to tell them you intend to become an American because they don't care about that until you apply. Keep your mouth shut unless spoken to, don't get clever, pay your taxes on time, and don't lie.
As for the rest, I'm not sure what you are talking about there either.
This is a bit dangerous. If you do not say you are British, what do you say you are? If you claim to be a US citizen when you are not you break the law in a big way. If you look on the US citizenship application form they specifically ask whether you have pretended to be a US citizen. (Together with some far more ridiculous questions, but I digress).
If you are a green card holder, you need to tell them that you intend to permanently reside in the United States. That's all. You don't need to tell them you intend to become an American because they don't care about that until you apply. Keep your mouth shut unless spoken to, don't get clever, pay your taxes on time, and don't lie.
As for the rest, I'm not sure what you are talking about there either.
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A Green Card holder who is not residing in the U.S. may not be eligible for Green Card status . There is something going on at the moment as I know of at least one person deported at JFK for not having a non-immigrant visa despite being a Green Card holder ( actually one of seven sent back from the same VS flight recently ).
If in the U.S. it is a different matter - Britishguy should have no problems.
If in the U.S. it is a different matter - Britishguy should have no problems.
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Dear British Guy:
Perhaps I can clear this up for you.
The US Immigration Laws permit a short course of flight training such as obtaining an FAA license on a B-1/B-2. If you are a British Passport holder you can enter the United States on the Visa Waiver program (which does not require a visa) and complete your short course of training and get your license. The B-1/B-2 usually allows a period of stay in the United States of six months renewable in the United States for a further six months. The Visa Waiver allows a maximum period of stay in the United States of 90 days.
If you intend remaining in the United States for a long period of time and you are engaging in a program of formal study then the M-1 or J-1 visa are options to consider.
If you are a green card holder, you are a permanent resident of the United States and the above does not apply. You cannot then enter on a non-immigrant visa unless you intend to abandon or have already abandoned your permanent resident status.
When entering the United States hand your passport to the Immigration Officer. If he asks you a question answer the question directly and honestly. The principal issue on entry is if you are going to leave the United States at the end of your visit. If the Immigration Officer asks you the purpose of your trip it is a visit. If asked if you are going to fly state that you are. There is nothing wrong with this.
Flight clearances regarding aircraft of 12,500lbs or more is a separate issue to the above If you intend training or flying an aircraft in the United States that weighs more than 12,500lbs then get precleared before you enter the US. Once you are precleared the above applies.
Enjoy your flying in the US.
Perhaps I can clear this up for you.
The US Immigration Laws permit a short course of flight training such as obtaining an FAA license on a B-1/B-2. If you are a British Passport holder you can enter the United States on the Visa Waiver program (which does not require a visa) and complete your short course of training and get your license. The B-1/B-2 usually allows a period of stay in the United States of six months renewable in the United States for a further six months. The Visa Waiver allows a maximum period of stay in the United States of 90 days.
If you intend remaining in the United States for a long period of time and you are engaging in a program of formal study then the M-1 or J-1 visa are options to consider.
If you are a green card holder, you are a permanent resident of the United States and the above does not apply. You cannot then enter on a non-immigrant visa unless you intend to abandon or have already abandoned your permanent resident status.
When entering the United States hand your passport to the Immigration Officer. If he asks you a question answer the question directly and honestly. The principal issue on entry is if you are going to leave the United States at the end of your visit. If the Immigration Officer asks you the purpose of your trip it is a visit. If asked if you are going to fly state that you are. There is nothing wrong with this.
Flight clearances regarding aircraft of 12,500lbs or more is a separate issue to the above If you intend training or flying an aircraft in the United States that weighs more than 12,500lbs then get precleared before you enter the US. Once you are precleared the above applies.
Enjoy your flying in the US.
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If you have a green card then you go and apply for a non-immigrant visa you have blown it. When you apply for a non-immigrant visa you promise that you have no intention of living in the US.
Goodbye green card.
It doesn't matter where you live. If you don't intend to permanently reside in the United States, you don't keep your green card. INS inspectors are very good at tripping people up,. Say the wrong thing, goodbye green card.
If you live in the US it will be harder for INS guy to say you do not intend to permanently reside here. If you arrive on a virgin flight out of London with a green card you have held for a year or so, but cannot give the INS officer details of a US bank account or credit card, goodbye green card.
Green card holders are not US citizens, so are not eligible for the 'rights' that US citizens have. It's open to debate whether learning to fly a plane is now considered a right only conferred on US citizens and foreigners who hold non-immigrant visas.
Goodbye green card.
It doesn't matter where you live. If you don't intend to permanently reside in the United States, you don't keep your green card. INS inspectors are very good at tripping people up,. Say the wrong thing, goodbye green card.
If you live in the US it will be harder for INS guy to say you do not intend to permanently reside here. If you arrive on a virgin flight out of London with a green card you have held for a year or so, but cannot give the INS officer details of a US bank account or credit card, goodbye green card.
Green card holders are not US citizens, so are not eligible for the 'rights' that US citizens have. It's open to debate whether learning to fly a plane is now considered a right only conferred on US citizens and foreigners who hold non-immigrant visas.
Last edited by slim_slag; 3rd Mar 2003 at 05:01.
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slim_slag,
Re. your earlier reply to british_guy case
You're right - it all up to interpretation and until there is a definitive answer it ain't worth the hassle to spend the time & money getting to the USA without being damn sure you are doing the "right thing" re. visas. See what happened to Britannia students last year (see the thread: WARNING - To anyone considering flight training in the USA).
I agree the NAC interpretation focusses on status change once there but the links to the CFRs cited therein are broken. What interpretation then? Answer - play safe 'cos now your (and others') FAA certificate can be revoked at the request of TSA WITHOUT recourse. See www.aopa.org and links to "pilot insecurity". Agreed again that if there is no law re. visa for Part 61 training then that should be enough but the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence as an uncertain official can just cite the catch-all TSA regs and then what? If you want to do and be seen to have done the most transparent thing possible, then the current situation approximates a Catch-22 between a rock and hard place because not all training providers are geared up to issue the paperwork towards an M visa and some probably can't afford the effort to do so. I don't know the Britannia case in detail and whether they tried to get approval and were turned down or just realised it wasn't worth the candle to attempt it.
If anyone can point me to the US government written reality I might be a whole lot less paranoid! I was told by a US Embassy visa section that you can do less than 18 hours vocational study per week without the need for an M visa. However, for flight training this is self-defeating in terms of time and cost, which is why we go to the USA in the first place and no doubt the new regs restrict part-time flight training without a visa. Or do they?
I am surprised if so many schools are hurting for business given the reported surge in student pilot starts in recent months. If they really are hurting, are they also lobbying Phil Boyer of AOPA to help leverage his discussions with the TSA to get an overall resolution??? Florida is a notable example but are there other regions that gain significant flight training revenue from non-US citizen/resident alien pilots?
Re. your earlier reply to british_guy case
You're right - it all up to interpretation and until there is a definitive answer it ain't worth the hassle to spend the time & money getting to the USA without being damn sure you are doing the "right thing" re. visas. See what happened to Britannia students last year (see the thread: WARNING - To anyone considering flight training in the USA).
I agree the NAC interpretation focusses on status change once there but the links to the CFRs cited therein are broken. What interpretation then? Answer - play safe 'cos now your (and others') FAA certificate can be revoked at the request of TSA WITHOUT recourse. See www.aopa.org and links to "pilot insecurity". Agreed again that if there is no law re. visa for Part 61 training then that should be enough but the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence as an uncertain official can just cite the catch-all TSA regs and then what? If you want to do and be seen to have done the most transparent thing possible, then the current situation approximates a Catch-22 between a rock and hard place because not all training providers are geared up to issue the paperwork towards an M visa and some probably can't afford the effort to do so. I don't know the Britannia case in detail and whether they tried to get approval and were turned down or just realised it wasn't worth the candle to attempt it.
If anyone can point me to the US government written reality I might be a whole lot less paranoid! I was told by a US Embassy visa section that you can do less than 18 hours vocational study per week without the need for an M visa. However, for flight training this is self-defeating in terms of time and cost, which is why we go to the USA in the first place and no doubt the new regs restrict part-time flight training without a visa. Or do they?
I am surprised if so many schools are hurting for business given the reported surge in student pilot starts in recent months. If they really are hurting, are they also lobbying Phil Boyer of AOPA to help leverage his discussions with the TSA to get an overall resolution??? Florida is a notable example but are there other regions that gain significant flight training revenue from non-US citizen/resident alien pilots?
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gateradial,
Another interpretation can be found here. I think this should be copied as a follow up post on the Naples sticky interpretation, it appears to be just as valid to me (actually I prefer this one). People should make the difficult decision you refer to based upon all available information/opinions.
Flying schools are always hurting. They bitch and moan like all businessmen in this country
Another interpretation can be found here. I think this should be copied as a follow up post on the Naples sticky interpretation, it appears to be just as valid to me (actually I prefer this one). People should make the difficult decision you refer to based upon all available information/opinions.
Flying schools are always hurting. They bitch and moan like all businessmen in this country
