Uni - Courses and places
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Perth, WA
Hi, Tri. .Speaking from experience, if I were you, I would do a non-aviation specific degree and do my flying training privately. The reason being, is that this will offer a second career, just in case you don't make it with aviation. Nothing is certain especially with the shaky state of the aviation industry at the moment.. .I've spent 3 years completing a B.Sc (Aviation) with a CPL, but still got no job!. Now I'm in my seond year of an Engineering degree. There's no doubt that being an Airline Pilot is my first choice of a career, but I've have to be practical, hence doing a engineering degree as a back up because engineering jobs are far easier to to get than flying.. .The point I'm trying to make is that in hindsight, I would have done an Engineering deegree as well as flying and not have wasted time with the Aviation degree. You see, all the Ailine wants are ATPL subjects passed and flying hours. A uni degree is great but they don't mind whether it's an Aviation one or other.. .Having said that, you can only study what you like, so if Aviation is the only that fancies you, then go for it.. .. .Good luck mate!
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: Cranfield University
I have not contributed to PPRuNe for quite some time now, but felt compelled to reply to this thread, and indeed use this thread to try and clear up some issues that I have seen on this subject elseswhere.
More frequently then ever now I have witnessed on PPRuNe the conveying of misguided information concerning courses at A-level and degree level.
The problem resides in people who seem to moot that "you should do the subjects you enjoy - as airlines don't care what degree you do."
Much of what Lucifer has stated on this thread is correct, good advice for people who aspire to be pilots and the like.
Below I am going to give my viewpoint, and people can feel free to comment on what I write as it is all purely my opinion.
Firstly I don't entirely agree with "you should do the subjects you enjoy - as airlines don't care what A-Levels / degree you do."
I suppose it depends on your viewpoint and future aspirations; whether you like aviation, flying or both. For example - Wannabes should ask themselves the question.
"If I can't become a pilot - what else do I want to do?"
This is a critical question and one that should be addressed before A-Level subjects are chosen. The reason, is that if the individual accepts that maybe he/she may not be a pilot then that person may want to be involved in aviation in some form or another.
For example, the person may want to be an aeronautical engineer. This more commonly requires a degree in aeronautical engineering and obviously the pre-requisite A-Level subjects.
The people on this site who state "just do the subjects you enjoy" are very shortsighted and seem to be leaving everything to chance. I would honestly not recommend "putting all my eggs in one basket" without getting a suitable medical at Gatwick that confirms that you are medically fit to be an airline pilot, and even then I wouldn't.
Lets look at the worst case scenario: You are interested in aviation not just flying, but flying is your dream and number one career. Following the advice of many people on this site you just do the subjects you enjoy and do a degree that the A-Levels subjects that you did allow. You then go for sponsorship or to try and fund yourself, and therefore think it prudent to go to see if you can pass a class 1 medical. Unfortunately, you find out that you have some problem that you never knew you had and subsequently you will not be issued with a class 1 medical. (This is not far fetched as people on this site have found out unfortunately). The result, is that you can no longer be an airline pilot and your degree is redundant in many areas.
Just to clarify that last point. I am NOT saying that the degree in Geography or whatever is worthless, but I am saying that for aviation jobs it may be held in a lower esteem than some of the others.
I don't know how other people were brought up but I was always told that you get what you work for. In order to get to your ultimate career or give yourself the best chances you will have to make sacrifices. It seems to be the current culture to just "do things the easy way." No-one seems to want to make the effort to do the hard subjects at A-Level or at degree level. That is a fact, the perceived hardness of Maths, Physics and Chemistry is one of the primary reasons why there is a shortage of engineers in this country. It is totally true that you will have to work maybe twice as hard as someone doing easier subjects and yes, you may find that you are a grade lower in your results than those people, but quite frankly the world is your oyster if you do those A-Level subjects because they allow access to the degrees that are relevant in so many different types of work. For example, if you did a degree in engineering you are "wanted by everyone" - Hobson Careers Directory 2002.
I make no apologies for seperating A-Level subjects and degree courses in terms of their hardness, that is fact. I suppose in these politically correct times it is wrong to differentiate between them, but people know.
Just to clear up information regarding an aero degree as well. It is hard, very hard indeed. Many times on this site I have seen people say "Don't do aero Eng" - it is too specific. This too is misguided information. On the contrary an aero eng degree will allow you to go into any financial job, aero engineering, automotive engineering, marine engineering, management etc etc
The degrees that ARE restrictive are the so called "easy options" because there are very little job prospects.
When recruiting as aforementioned airlines look for a vast array of qualities, academia is just one of the many. That I understand and agree with. I just feel that misguiding individuals isn't right. All too soon the events of September the 11th seem to have blown over and everyone seems to be putting their eggs into one basket again. Just think before you act, and think about those pilots now that are without work and have nothing to fall back on...this is another factor of course - getting made redundant or a medical problem mid career - you need something to fall back on.
People on PPRuNe often seem to try and justify their own actions in a post....a kind of comfort to themselves. It seems to be selectively forgotten that British Midland in one advertisement I remember seeing stated for A-Levels "Science subjects preferred." It is also annoying (and this has been done in this thread) that people compare a poor degree in say Physics with a good degree in Classics. Whilst the point being made is valid and correct, those people never seem to say that if all things were equal and they had one person with a first in Physics and one with a first in classics, who they would go for.
My advice above isn't taking any sides at all - the underlying message is PREPARE FOR THE WORST, that way you will be ok.
Best Wishes
More frequently then ever now I have witnessed on PPRuNe the conveying of misguided information concerning courses at A-level and degree level.
The problem resides in people who seem to moot that "you should do the subjects you enjoy - as airlines don't care what degree you do."
Much of what Lucifer has stated on this thread is correct, good advice for people who aspire to be pilots and the like.
Below I am going to give my viewpoint, and people can feel free to comment on what I write as it is all purely my opinion.
Firstly I don't entirely agree with "you should do the subjects you enjoy - as airlines don't care what A-Levels / degree you do."
I suppose it depends on your viewpoint and future aspirations; whether you like aviation, flying or both. For example - Wannabes should ask themselves the question.
"If I can't become a pilot - what else do I want to do?"
This is a critical question and one that should be addressed before A-Level subjects are chosen. The reason, is that if the individual accepts that maybe he/she may not be a pilot then that person may want to be involved in aviation in some form or another.
For example, the person may want to be an aeronautical engineer. This more commonly requires a degree in aeronautical engineering and obviously the pre-requisite A-Level subjects.
The people on this site who state "just do the subjects you enjoy" are very shortsighted and seem to be leaving everything to chance. I would honestly not recommend "putting all my eggs in one basket" without getting a suitable medical at Gatwick that confirms that you are medically fit to be an airline pilot, and even then I wouldn't.
Lets look at the worst case scenario: You are interested in aviation not just flying, but flying is your dream and number one career. Following the advice of many people on this site you just do the subjects you enjoy and do a degree that the A-Levels subjects that you did allow. You then go for sponsorship or to try and fund yourself, and therefore think it prudent to go to see if you can pass a class 1 medical. Unfortunately, you find out that you have some problem that you never knew you had and subsequently you will not be issued with a class 1 medical. (This is not far fetched as people on this site have found out unfortunately). The result, is that you can no longer be an airline pilot and your degree is redundant in many areas.
Just to clarify that last point. I am NOT saying that the degree in Geography or whatever is worthless, but I am saying that for aviation jobs it may be held in a lower esteem than some of the others.
I don't know how other people were brought up but I was always told that you get what you work for. In order to get to your ultimate career or give yourself the best chances you will have to make sacrifices. It seems to be the current culture to just "do things the easy way." No-one seems to want to make the effort to do the hard subjects at A-Level or at degree level. That is a fact, the perceived hardness of Maths, Physics and Chemistry is one of the primary reasons why there is a shortage of engineers in this country. It is totally true that you will have to work maybe twice as hard as someone doing easier subjects and yes, you may find that you are a grade lower in your results than those people, but quite frankly the world is your oyster if you do those A-Level subjects because they allow access to the degrees that are relevant in so many different types of work. For example, if you did a degree in engineering you are "wanted by everyone" - Hobson Careers Directory 2002.
I make no apologies for seperating A-Level subjects and degree courses in terms of their hardness, that is fact. I suppose in these politically correct times it is wrong to differentiate between them, but people know.
Just to clear up information regarding an aero degree as well. It is hard, very hard indeed. Many times on this site I have seen people say "Don't do aero Eng" - it is too specific. This too is misguided information. On the contrary an aero eng degree will allow you to go into any financial job, aero engineering, automotive engineering, marine engineering, management etc etc
The degrees that ARE restrictive are the so called "easy options" because there are very little job prospects.
When recruiting as aforementioned airlines look for a vast array of qualities, academia is just one of the many. That I understand and agree with. I just feel that misguiding individuals isn't right. All too soon the events of September the 11th seem to have blown over and everyone seems to be putting their eggs into one basket again. Just think before you act, and think about those pilots now that are without work and have nothing to fall back on...this is another factor of course - getting made redundant or a medical problem mid career - you need something to fall back on.
People on PPRuNe often seem to try and justify their own actions in a post....a kind of comfort to themselves. It seems to be selectively forgotten that British Midland in one advertisement I remember seeing stated for A-Levels "Science subjects preferred." It is also annoying (and this has been done in this thread) that people compare a poor degree in say Physics with a good degree in Classics. Whilst the point being made is valid and correct, those people never seem to say that if all things were equal and they had one person with a first in Physics and one with a first in classics, who they would go for.
My advice above isn't taking any sides at all - the underlying message is PREPARE FOR THE WORST, that way you will be ok.
Best Wishes
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Area 51
I'm a couple of years ahead of you (the thread starter)
and i have to agree with all the people who have
said to do a course that you enjoy instead of one
that you "think" will look better.
I'm just finishing my first year at bristol doing
computer science whilst waiting for BA to start up
their cadet scheme again (any news anyone????).
I looked at aviation type degrees at guidhall and abroad
and felt that its a pretty final subject to go into
i.e. there's no room to do another unrelated job if you havent managed to get into a flying one.
It must be quite hard i think to try and get a job in another part of industry with such a specific degree (apologies if this is not the case).
Myself i think that although i'm not totally enjoying Computer Science in relation
to actually flying (who wouldn't) its my second best.
Just a quick message to
LUCIFER
Any time i check out the threads always you are there defending the raf from hour builders,
now whilst i think that due to funds this is totally true,
i think that nearly everyone registered on this website must have seen it by now.
Just a thought. - not intended to offend - just being objective.
and i have to agree with all the people who have
said to do a course that you enjoy instead of one
that you "think" will look better.
I'm just finishing my first year at bristol doing
computer science whilst waiting for BA to start up
their cadet scheme again (any news anyone????).
I looked at aviation type degrees at guidhall and abroad
and felt that its a pretty final subject to go into
i.e. there's no room to do another unrelated job if you havent managed to get into a flying one.
It must be quite hard i think to try and get a job in another part of industry with such a specific degree (apologies if this is not the case).
Myself i think that although i'm not totally enjoying Computer Science in relation
to actually flying (who wouldn't) its my second best.
Just a quick message to
LUCIFER
Any time i check out the threads always you are there defending the raf from hour builders,
now whilst i think that due to funds this is totally true,
i think that nearly everyone registered on this website must have seen it by now.
Just a thought. - not intended to offend - just being objective.
Last edited by rahaney; 25th April 2002 at 10:52.
