The Gatbash Seminars:
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The Gatbash Seminars:
WOW!!! I feel sorry for those that missed out!!! A brilliant day that wasn't just informative, but a laugh as well....great to put a face to the names. 
Well, still got several years to go, though, until I apply for the airlines!
But it really gave me some info to chew on.
I'm sure everyone at the seminar will join me in saying a HUGE thank you to everyone that spoke and organised it behind the scenes.
Thanks especially to IFR, Scroggs, WWW, Honrah, Sicksquid and anyone and everyone else that was there (sorry I can't remember anyone else )
Anyway, I thoroughly recommend that anyone who wants to be a pilot, go to this event!!! Great fun and a wealth of information, all in one day! (and u get free Fox's sweeites )
Cheers once again to everyone involved in setting it all up (can u put me on th list for next year please IFR? ) 
)
[Edited for typos]
[ 15 December 2001: Message edited by: FL390 ]
Well, still got several years to go, though, until I apply for the airlines!
But it really gave me some info to chew on.I'm sure everyone at the seminar will join me in saying a HUGE thank you to everyone that spoke and organised it behind the scenes.
Thanks especially to IFR, Scroggs, WWW, Honrah, Sicksquid and anyone and everyone else that was there (sorry I can't remember anyone else
)Anyway, I thoroughly recommend that anyone who wants to be a pilot, go to this event!!! Great fun and a wealth of information, all in one day! (and u get free Fox's sweeites
)Cheers once again to everyone involved in setting it all up (can u put me on th list for next year please IFR?
) )[Edited for typos]
[ 15 December 2001: Message edited by: FL390 ]
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Ditto the above. I might also add that it was a big boost to my motivation to hear so many other wannabes talking about the same struggles and aspirations: the day provided a 'we're all in this together' feeling!
Wannabes know it's going to be particularly difficult for the next few years, but the moderators showed us a way through and offered their support and insight, which is something I don't get from any other quarter.
If you didn't get a place this time make sure you do next year, it will be well worth it.
Thanks to IFR in particular for keeping the day going...
PS I bet there are a few interesting stories doing the rounds this morning... and one of them involves Redsnail!
[ 16 December 2001: Message edited by: The Islander ]
Wannabes know it's going to be particularly difficult for the next few years, but the moderators showed us a way through and offered their support and insight, which is something I don't get from any other quarter.
If you didn't get a place this time make sure you do next year, it will be well worth it.
Thanks to IFR in particular for keeping the day going...
PS I bet there are a few interesting stories doing the rounds this morning... and one of them involves Redsnail!
[ 16 December 2001: Message edited by: The Islander ]
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Just a reminder to The Islander and everyone else that stories and rumours about Redsnail belong in the public domain so let's hear them NOW!
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Many thanks to everyone who gave up their free time to organise this.
Another excellent day, and I know quite a few eyes were opened by the experience (particularly the ones who thought they knew what a BA captain should look & sound like!)
Another excellent day, and I know quite a few eyes were opened by the experience (particularly the ones who thought they knew what a BA captain should look & sound like!)
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Hear! hear! Concur with all of the above. Big thanks from me to all of you PPRune 'grown-ups' for putting the time in and to IFR for orgainising the whole thing.
To complete the vote of thanks to FL390's list, thanks also to PPrune Towers, PPrune Radar, Redsnail, Crashdive, Capt PPrune - sorry if I have forgotten anybody!
A really top effort by all concerned. It is nice to see just how much fun can still be had amongst all the doom and gloom.
Having slept on the advice, those last words we had from PPrune Towers and Sick Squid were very profound indeed; certainly things I will always remember.
Also great to meet some of my fellow Wannabees and share some good stories.
So did those who stayed on for the bash all have a few ales then?? It looked like the beginning of a reasonably large night coming up when I left!!
for putting the time in and to IFR for orgainising the whole thing.To complete the vote of thanks to FL390's list, thanks also to PPrune Towers, PPrune Radar, Redsnail, Crashdive, Capt PPrune - sorry if I have forgotten anybody!
A really top effort by all concerned. It is nice to see just how much fun can still be had amongst all the doom and gloom.
Having slept on the advice, those last words we had from PPrune Towers and Sick Squid were very profound indeed; certainly things I will always remember.
Also great to meet some of my fellow Wannabees and share some good stories.
So did those who stayed on for the bash all have a few ales then?? It looked like the beginning of a reasonably large night coming up when I left!!
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I remember after the June seminars some people posted a summary of the lectures which was dead useful for those who didn't make it.
Perhaps some kind wannabes would do the same this time round, as I would imagine the content and outlook of the seminars has changed since then, especially given all the events that have happened since June.
Thanks in anticipation.
Perhaps some kind wannabes would do the same this time round, as I would imagine the content and outlook of the seminars has changed since then, especially given all the events that have happened since June.
Thanks in anticipation.
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What a great day!
In a few words (if that is possible at all)
*Useful
*Informative
*Clear
*Unbiased
*Motivating
*Amusing
Very well organised! Keep up with the work guys!
Even the fact of putting a face on the names was great.
Finally, it was also a demonstration of what "networking" is all about!!!
If I get the chance I will go to the next one, but if someone needs my place, I will definitively come to the bash!
Thanks for the day!
In a few words (if that is possible at all)
*Useful
*Informative
*Clear
*Unbiased
*Motivating
*Amusing
Very well organised! Keep up with the work guys!
Even the fact of putting a face on the names was great.
Finally, it was also a demonstration of what "networking" is all about!!!
If I get the chance I will go to the next one, but if someone needs my place, I will definitively come to the bash!
Thanks for the day!
PPRuNe Handmaiden
G'day,
What rumours?
My talk was shortened considerably in the first half and I didn't get a chance to say it for the second half. It is about JAR ATPL perparation and what to expect.
When I get home, ie Australia on Thurs I'll post it in the Wannabe forum.
Don't worry, I am returning in Feb some time with a tan
What rumours?
My talk was shortened considerably in the first half and I didn't get a chance to say it for the second half. It is about JAR ATPL perparation and what to expect.
When I get home, ie Australia on Thurs I'll post it in the Wannabe forum.
Don't worry, I am returning in Feb some time with a tan
Supercharged PPRuNer
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Okay then, a brief trawl through my Stella-fogged memory banks:
1) Getting your ATPL / first job, hosted by WWW, Reddo, Crashdive & Hamrah.
Crashdive started off with a warning about how critical luck & timing can be in getting your first job. Like it or not, who you know is at least as important as your CV / experience, possibly more so. Moral of the story? Network like crazy, and hang around the sort of places that pilots frequent (flying clubs, Pprune bashes, pubs, brothels, etc).
Give serious thought to when you plan to get your shiny licence – by March / April, many airlines are already training their intake of recruits for the busy summer season, so qualifying around Christmas will give you a better chance of pitching up at the right time.
Crashdive also gave some cautionary tales of the kind of setbacks you can have on the way to your first job, and reiterated the importance of bloody-minded determination and refusal to give up. (On a personal note, some people – with the best will in the world – are never going to make airline pilots. Give yourself some peace of mind and potentially save £50k+ by planning an early visit to one of GAPAN’s aptitude testing sessions at RAF Cranwell).
There was a discussion about the state of the job market at present. Everyone agreed that the medium to long-term trend is for strong growth, and that we are at or near the bottom of a temporary dip. The only (obvious) question is how long it will take to recover. On the plus side, the low-costs are still enjoying strong growth. On the down side, the EU is full of pilots with JAA licences who have the right to work in the UK, and Bin Laden is still on the lose (with all the uncertainty that entails). Pick a date between 2 & 4 years from now, depending on your optimism.
Hamrah talked about CV presentation, and mentioned the need to keep it concise (i.e. 1 page) as you have on average 10 seconds to sell yourself. Hours in big letters close to the top, and if you don’t have them, try and think of some work experience that is relevant and will impress. (Hint: a Prince of Wales award for canoeing up the Amazon isn’t going to blow anyone’s skirt up.
3 years working in a high pressure environment where mistakes are expensive – very relevant). Oh yes, and if the advert says 500 hours TT & you’ve got 490, don’t bother applying. Minimums are not flexible.
Reddo then put the frighteners on everyone (to subdue the hecklers) with a vivid description of just what you have to go through to pass the ATPL writtens. In short, prepare your background knowledge as much as you can – go to museums & look at cutaway engines, learn what a twin-spool axial flow engine looks like. (Blimey, I sound like I know what I’m talking about!). Talk to you local friendly engineers, and find out what lurks behind your instrument panel – it’ll make understanding your ATPLs that much easier.
Set yourself a realistic schedule that includes some free time, and discipline yourself to stick to it. And above all, stay focused on your goal.
2) Military flying, with Scroggs.
This was not helped by the fact that all of us in my group were either too old / blind / short, or simply too ugly for military flying. Thus, we continued he earlier discussion on ATPLs. Integrated v Modular came up, and Scroggs cautioned that most airlines still have memories of CAP509ers often performing better than self-improvers because of their more structured training. While in theory there should be no difference between a JAA modular or integrated graduate, airlines may take some time to build up enough experience to regard modular candidates in the same light as integrated ones. Some chief pilots will always prefer candidates who have done all their training in one hit with one school, but if JAA works as it supposed to (!) with the passage of time, airlines should hopefully come to see an ATPL as an ATPL, whatever the route.
3) ATC, with 10W
Dubya gave us a good overview of recruitment into Eurocontrol / NATS, with the basic message that – given airline movements set to double between 2000 & 2010, career prospects are rosy. New developments in ATC (e.g. mode S & datalink) were discussed, as well as the really good news that sponsored students at the ATC college not only get paid, but get a lager allowance as well. (Expect NATS to experience a sudden run on application forms). I won’t go into any more detail, as I suspect most people reading this are wannabe pilots, but Dubya is always happy to give out information & advice, so you can contact him direct.
4) Sicksquid, and the life of a BA captain.
It was a joy to watch the faces of some of the audience, waiting to meet a real live BA captain and no doubt expecting retired Wing Commander Bufton Tufton (WC & chain) to walk in. Enter a larger than life Scotsman with a shaved head, a Jerry Springer security T shirt, and what looked suspiciously like a pint of wine. Bubble duly burst.
Editing £6’s talk for language would bring us down to the odd sentence here and there, but suffice to say he gave a brilliant speech on life at the pointy end of a minibus, and the challenges and responsibilities that come with it. Concerning recruitment, there may be something by the tail end of next year, but don’t hold your breath. He also had some excellent hand-outs on cockpit team-working skills, which are as relevant in a C152 as they are to Concorde. He also pointed out the need to grab a ride in a ‘clockwork’ simulator as a bit of practice before you have to do it for real. Even FS2000 (don’t laugh) will get you used to scanning the instruments and practising ILS intercepts at jet speeds.
After that, it was off to the bar for a thorough debrief and the odd half of shandy. (From what little I remember).
(Edited to spare blushes :o )
[ 17 December 2001: Message edited by: G SXTY ]
1) Getting your ATPL / first job, hosted by WWW, Reddo, Crashdive & Hamrah.
Crashdive started off with a warning about how critical luck & timing can be in getting your first job. Like it or not, who you know is at least as important as your CV / experience, possibly more so. Moral of the story? Network like crazy, and hang around the sort of places that pilots frequent (flying clubs, Pprune bashes, pubs, brothels, etc).
Give serious thought to when you plan to get your shiny licence – by March / April, many airlines are already training their intake of recruits for the busy summer season, so qualifying around Christmas will give you a better chance of pitching up at the right time.
Crashdive also gave some cautionary tales of the kind of setbacks you can have on the way to your first job, and reiterated the importance of bloody-minded determination and refusal to give up. (On a personal note, some people – with the best will in the world – are never going to make airline pilots. Give yourself some peace of mind and potentially save £50k+ by planning an early visit to one of GAPAN’s aptitude testing sessions at RAF Cranwell).
There was a discussion about the state of the job market at present. Everyone agreed that the medium to long-term trend is for strong growth, and that we are at or near the bottom of a temporary dip. The only (obvious) question is how long it will take to recover. On the plus side, the low-costs are still enjoying strong growth. On the down side, the EU is full of pilots with JAA licences who have the right to work in the UK, and Bin Laden is still on the lose (with all the uncertainty that entails). Pick a date between 2 & 4 years from now, depending on your optimism.
Hamrah talked about CV presentation, and mentioned the need to keep it concise (i.e. 1 page) as you have on average 10 seconds to sell yourself. Hours in big letters close to the top, and if you don’t have them, try and think of some work experience that is relevant and will impress. (Hint: a Prince of Wales award for canoeing up the Amazon isn’t going to blow anyone’s skirt up.
3 years working in a high pressure environment where mistakes are expensive – very relevant). Oh yes, and if the advert says 500 hours TT & you’ve got 490, don’t bother applying. Minimums are not flexible.Reddo then put the frighteners on everyone (to subdue the hecklers) with a vivid description of just what you have to go through to pass the ATPL writtens. In short, prepare your background knowledge as much as you can – go to museums & look at cutaway engines, learn what a twin-spool axial flow engine looks like. (Blimey, I sound like I know what I’m talking about!). Talk to you local friendly engineers, and find out what lurks behind your instrument panel – it’ll make understanding your ATPLs that much easier.
Set yourself a realistic schedule that includes some free time, and discipline yourself to stick to it. And above all, stay focused on your goal.
2) Military flying, with Scroggs.
This was not helped by the fact that all of us in my group were either too old / blind / short, or simply too ugly for military flying. Thus, we continued he earlier discussion on ATPLs. Integrated v Modular came up, and Scroggs cautioned that most airlines still have memories of CAP509ers often performing better than self-improvers because of their more structured training. While in theory there should be no difference between a JAA modular or integrated graduate, airlines may take some time to build up enough experience to regard modular candidates in the same light as integrated ones. Some chief pilots will always prefer candidates who have done all their training in one hit with one school, but if JAA works as it supposed to (!) with the passage of time, airlines should hopefully come to see an ATPL as an ATPL, whatever the route.
3) ATC, with 10W
Dubya gave us a good overview of recruitment into Eurocontrol / NATS, with the basic message that – given airline movements set to double between 2000 & 2010, career prospects are rosy. New developments in ATC (e.g. mode S & datalink) were discussed, as well as the really good news that sponsored students at the ATC college not only get paid, but get a lager allowance as well. (Expect NATS to experience a sudden run on application forms).
I won’t go into any more detail, as I suspect most people reading this are wannabe pilots, but Dubya is always happy to give out information & advice, so you can contact him direct.4) Sicksquid, and the life of a BA captain.
It was a joy to watch the faces of some of the audience, waiting to meet a real live BA captain and no doubt expecting retired Wing Commander Bufton Tufton (WC & chain) to walk in. Enter a larger than life Scotsman with a shaved head, a Jerry Springer security T shirt, and what looked suspiciously like a pint of wine. Bubble duly burst.
Editing £6’s talk for language would bring us down to the odd sentence here and there, but suffice to say he gave a brilliant speech on life at the pointy end of a minibus, and the challenges and responsibilities that come with it. Concerning recruitment, there may be something by the tail end of next year, but don’t hold your breath. He also had some excellent hand-outs on cockpit team-working skills, which are as relevant in a C152 as they are to Concorde. He also pointed out the need to grab a ride in a ‘clockwork’ simulator as a bit of practice before you have to do it for real. Even FS2000 (don’t laugh) will get you used to scanning the instruments and practising ILS intercepts at jet speeds.
After that, it was off to the bar for a thorough debrief and the odd half of shandy.
(From what little I remember).(Edited to spare blushes :o )
[ 17 December 2001: Message edited by: G SXTY ]
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"Suspiciously like a pint of of wine..."
The prize for co-ordination went to the ATC heckler from SCATCC who tried to answer his mobile phone and read his watch at the same time, spilling his pint in the process.... wonder who that was? (Clue: part of an Oceanic entry point....)
Part of the reason why I adopt that tone for my presentation is because I wan't to try to dispel some of the stereotypical attitudes I see whenever BA are mentioned; the people I meet and work with, trained with, socialise with bear no relationship to the caricatures that do the rounds. Plus you need to do something to keep the audiences attention when you're coming last-presentation at the end of a long day.
By the way, if anyone can scan those 2 handouts into .doc format for me and e-mail them, I'd be grateful.. my scanner is t's/u and I'd like to have them on the hard-drive for future use.
Agree with all the advice I've read above... I was too busy setting up the entertainment to attend anyone elses seminars, and also to hang about too long to answer many questions after the event. Apologies for that.
£6
(It's a number one cut, by the way... got to give in to the inevitable as it recedes...)
[ 17 December 2001: Message edited by: Sick Squid ]
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I'd like to say thank you on the forum for all the hard work and effort that the team put in to the seminars. PPruneTowers (never very good with names, but you all know who I mean!) summed up the feeling by saying that the guys were putting back some of what they have got out of the industry. I certainly felt that what they put back was exceptional - well beyond their debts! If only everyone in the world was as generous with their knowledge. Thanks everyone - next time I'll stay for the session afterwards - sorry I missed it.
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Hi,
I can only echo what other people have said.
A great day, thanks to all who made it what it was.
A big favour to ask...I was a touch tardy in my picking up of £6's 2 handouts due to asking a question, and by the time I went to the pile, they had all gone. Please if anyone can scan the sheets and e-mail them to myself at [email protected] I would be massively grateful.
Cheers,
Tom.
EDITED: I HAVE THE SHEETS NOW. Many thanks to Big Bad Dom. £6..I assume you have the sheets now in *.doc format...
[ 18 December 2001: Message edited by: tom775257 ]
I can only echo what other people have said.
A great day, thanks to all who made it what it was.
A big favour to ask...I was a touch tardy in my picking up of £6's 2 handouts due to asking a question, and by the time I went to the pile, they had all gone. Please if anyone can scan the sheets and e-mail them to myself at [email protected] I would be massively grateful.
Cheers,
Tom.
EDITED: I HAVE THE SHEETS NOW. Many thanks to Big Bad Dom. £6..I assume you have the sheets now in *.doc format...
[ 18 December 2001: Message edited by: tom775257 ]
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Dear Captain Squid,
It has come to my attention that, far from being the antifreeze drinking hell-raiser I believed you to be, you are actually partial to the odd pint of ‘lemonade and lime’, and – worse than that – you wear underpants under your kilt.
You have just gone down several notches in my estimations sir.
Sincerely yours,
G SXTY
It has come to my attention that, far from being the antifreeze drinking hell-raiser I believed you to be, you are actually partial to the odd pint of ‘lemonade and lime’, and – worse than that – you wear underpants under your kilt.
You have just gone down several notches in my estimations sir.
Sincerely yours,
G SXTY
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I a big thanks to everyone from me too! it was a superb day and very informative. A long way to go for myself but well worth it. Strongly recomended, start booking now for next time....
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Agree with all of the above!
I arrived not knowing quite what to expect and left feeling better about being a wannabe in these uncertain times!
Not only was it really good to hear from those in the know and were happy to help, but meeting up with so many other wannabes in a similar boat was nice -could chat about flying for ages without anyone getting bored ot taking the p*ss!
Thanks to all those who made the day!!
I'll definately be looking forward to the next bash I can attend - and i'll make sure i'm not driving next time !!
I arrived not knowing quite what to expect and left feeling better about being a wannabe in these uncertain times!
Not only was it really good to hear from those in the know and were happy to help, but meeting up with so many other wannabes in a similar boat was nice -could chat about flying for ages without anyone getting bored ot taking the p*ss!
Thanks to all those who made the day!!
I'll definately be looking forward to the next bash I can attend - and i'll make sure i'm not driving next time
!!