Life changing decision!!!
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Life changing decision!!!
Hey All,
I am in such a confusing state! I am 18 years old and left education at 16. All I have is poor GCSE's (which is my own fault due to a distlike of school). I made the decision to leave school and start my PPL. After compleating my PPL i hope to continue through to do IR, Twin, Nght, Instructor, and CPL.
Im now in a crappy full-time retail job to fund my lessons, which I try and take weekly. The only thing is im really worried that my educational background is going to let me down in the long run. Shall I carry on how I am, and fund all my lessons hoping to get a job at the end? Or do I stand no chance, even if i get my CPL? shall I consider re-entering education for september 03??
Many thanx folks
Brad.
I am in such a confusing state! I am 18 years old and left education at 16. All I have is poor GCSE's (which is my own fault due to a distlike of school). I made the decision to leave school and start my PPL. After compleating my PPL i hope to continue through to do IR, Twin, Nght, Instructor, and CPL.
Im now in a crappy full-time retail job to fund my lessons, which I try and take weekly. The only thing is im really worried that my educational background is going to let me down in the long run. Shall I carry on how I am, and fund all my lessons hoping to get a job at the end? Or do I stand no chance, even if i get my CPL? shall I consider re-entering education for september 03??
Many thanx folks
Brad.
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 17,503
Likes: 1,845
From: England
There are plenty of people out their flying airliners with poor educational qualification.
It seems to me that your path will be slogging away in the Instructing-Air Taxi-Turboprop route. Your advantage is your age. You can drop everything at a phone calls notice, move to the other side of the country for a job, live in a knackered old caravan on the rough side of the airfield, live off Aldi baked beans etc. etc.
On the random Thursday afternoon in 5 years time when you are in some hangar somewhere talking to somebody else they'll need a pilot with some twin time for 'a bit of work over the summer' an hey presto your career is off. They'll never advertise nor want to know about your GCSE's. You were in the right place at the right time with a license in your back pocket and the requisite hours in your logbook.
Good luck, it can be a fun and rewarding path. Beats being miserable in education for 5 years getting turned down for endless sponsorships, getting older and gaining commitments.
Good luck,
WWW
It seems to me that your path will be slogging away in the Instructing-Air Taxi-Turboprop route. Your advantage is your age. You can drop everything at a phone calls notice, move to the other side of the country for a job, live in a knackered old caravan on the rough side of the airfield, live off Aldi baked beans etc. etc.
On the random Thursday afternoon in 5 years time when you are in some hangar somewhere talking to somebody else they'll need a pilot with some twin time for 'a bit of work over the summer' an hey presto your career is off. They'll never advertise nor want to know about your GCSE's. You were in the right place at the right time with a license in your back pocket and the requisite hours in your logbook.
Good luck, it can be a fun and rewarding path. Beats being miserable in education for 5 years getting turned down for endless sponsorships, getting older and gaining commitments.
Good luck,
WWW
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
From: Northern Ireland
You say it WWW!
I left school at GCSE level with 11 C grades. Not bad. I did A level for a year but I found it so boring, I left. I don't regret it at all. Pilots don't need any formal qualifications, except their licenses and ratings. Fly boy, don't go back to school, you are on the right track, you have a job, (that you appear to hate) but so do I. I have several jobs, at the weekends I deliver Chinese food and make £300 a weekend, that pays for my petrol and 2 flying lessons every weekend)
Also, I imagine you have a bank account. If so, make sure you save everything you can into it. If you ever need to apply for a loan, (HSBC) it will be helpful to see that you can save and manage money.
Like me you are 18, we both, like others have chosen one of the hardest careers to get into, but the rewards are endless. Don't go back to school. There are good pilots without GCSE's. Plenty of them. (Ask Oxford!)
Anyway. Good luck fly boy.
P.Savage
I left school at GCSE level with 11 C grades. Not bad. I did A level for a year but I found it so boring, I left. I don't regret it at all. Pilots don't need any formal qualifications, except their licenses and ratings. Fly boy, don't go back to school, you are on the right track, you have a job, (that you appear to hate) but so do I. I have several jobs, at the weekends I deliver Chinese food and make £300 a weekend, that pays for my petrol and 2 flying lessons every weekend)
Also, I imagine you have a bank account. If so, make sure you save everything you can into it. If you ever need to apply for a loan, (HSBC) it will be helpful to see that you can save and manage money.
Like me you are 18, we both, like others have chosen one of the hardest careers to get into, but the rewards are endless. Don't go back to school. There are good pilots without GCSE's. Plenty of them. (Ask Oxford!)
Anyway. Good luck fly boy.
P.Savage
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hmmm....
Hi
I understand whats being said, its sounding a little promising for me i suppose. Im gonna have to get more jobs by the looks of things.Im currently getting hardly enough to pay for one lesson a week!! Maybe a evening bar job could thicken out my wallet. Iv had a £2000 HSBC loan (and its disolved away) and it helped a little. Should I consider increasing the loan?? or will i later regreat it??
Many thanx for the Info
Brad.
I understand whats being said, its sounding a little promising for me i suppose. Im gonna have to get more jobs by the looks of things.Im currently getting hardly enough to pay for one lesson a week!! Maybe a evening bar job could thicken out my wallet. Iv had a £2000 HSBC loan (and its disolved away) and it helped a little. Should I consider increasing the loan?? or will i later regreat it??
Many thanx for the Info
Brad.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
From: Northern Ireland
Thats good that you got an HSBC loan. If you can look at www.europeanflighttraining.com they quarantee you an instructor postion when you qualify. HSBC will surely lend you £35,000! You will not regret taking this loan, especially when you know you can work for 2 years in FL and pay some of it back. Then when you come back to the UK, you will be completely qualified (except MCC) for RHS work.
Im hoping HSBC will lend me £35,000 unsecured, with Life insurance etc etc to go to EFT. Excellent organistion.
Cheers
Paul
Im hoping HSBC will lend me £35,000 unsecured, with Life insurance etc etc to go to EFT. Excellent organistion.
Cheers
Paul
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The ICAO route
Flyboybrad,
My advice to you is to try to train as cheaply as is possible. Cheap doesnt have to mean low quality.
My advice is that you avoid loans and try to live as economically as possible. A J-1 visa program in the US is good for building experience. Have you looked at schools in South africa, SA is becoming a very popular destination with UK students and is cheaper than the US(PPL-£2.5k incl accom& travel) (CPL/IR<£15k) Oz & NZ are similarly priced. Southern Africa also has some job oppurtunites for low houred CPL's(bush flying- check the African forum). Apart from instructing at the moment there are practically no jobs for low houred CPL/IR's in Europe. Most ICAO syllabuses outside JAA are easier and much more sensibly structured and the weather's much better, so u can train in a shorter time. with andICAO CPL/IR with 700 TT you'll need only a CPL flight test plus 15HRs min IR conversion to get a JAA CPL/IR.
My advice to you is to try to train as cheaply as is possible. Cheap doesnt have to mean low quality.
My advice is that you avoid loans and try to live as economically as possible. A J-1 visa program in the US is good for building experience. Have you looked at schools in South africa, SA is becoming a very popular destination with UK students and is cheaper than the US(PPL-£2.5k incl accom& travel) (CPL/IR<£15k) Oz & NZ are similarly priced. Southern Africa also has some job oppurtunites for low houred CPL's(bush flying- check the African forum). Apart from instructing at the moment there are practically no jobs for low houred CPL/IR's in Europe. Most ICAO syllabuses outside JAA are easier and much more sensibly structured and the weather's much better, so u can train in a shorter time. with andICAO CPL/IR with 700 TT you'll need only a CPL flight test plus 15HRs min IR conversion to get a JAA CPL/IR.
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
From: UK
Im hoping HSBC will lend me £35,000 unsecured, with Life insurance etc etc to go to EFT. Excellent organistion.
Glad you agree!(HSBC I presume, I havnt been to EFT so I wouldn't know about that)
I hope my tips on putting together a portfolio came in useful
Good Luck
Brad
If your worried that your maths arn't up to scratch there are a few FTO's who offer "maths for pilots" brush up courses. They are inexpensive and are worth doing now so when you start your CPL/ATPL theory it will be fresh in your mind.
It seems to me that your path will be slogging away in the Instructing-Air Taxi-Turboprop route.
You make it sound like a bad thing!
personally I wouldnt want to do anything else (Except maybe not living off Aldi baked beans
)
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
From: UK
Flyboybrad.....
I am not convinced that you are being offered impartial (or good) advice.
It is a fact of life that paper qualifications are required (rightly or wrongly) by many employers. They are at least a tangible and measurable way of proving your acedemic abilities.
When you have qualified as a CPL you will be competing against many many other pilots for (probably) few jobs. The employers will as likely use acedemic qualifications as a 'filter'. This will not help you of course.
I have noticed recently that many airlines ask for either 1000 hours multi crew time OR very good GCSE's etc (!!!). Read into this what you will..............but the chances are that you will have neither!
If you go back to college you will improve your chances significantly and I believe that it will look good on your 'CV' (by this I mean you will have demonstrated a serious and mature attitude regarding your future and level of commitment).
Before you get caught up in the drama and run up huge debts on a wing and a prayer, stop and think for a while. Take advantage of your age and situation now while you are young.
Just a thought...................
Good luck
JWF
P.S I too left school with few qualifications ( I am 45 now), it has not stopped me but it HAS hindered my progress. I do REGRET not studying harder while at school).
I am not convinced that you are being offered impartial (or good) advice.
It is a fact of life that paper qualifications are required (rightly or wrongly) by many employers. They are at least a tangible and measurable way of proving your acedemic abilities.
When you have qualified as a CPL you will be competing against many many other pilots for (probably) few jobs. The employers will as likely use acedemic qualifications as a 'filter'. This will not help you of course.
I have noticed recently that many airlines ask for either 1000 hours multi crew time OR very good GCSE's etc (!!!). Read into this what you will..............but the chances are that you will have neither!
If you go back to college you will improve your chances significantly and I believe that it will look good on your 'CV' (by this I mean you will have demonstrated a serious and mature attitude regarding your future and level of commitment).
Before you get caught up in the drama and run up huge debts on a wing and a prayer, stop and think for a while. Take advantage of your age and situation now while you are young.
Just a thought...................
Good luck
JWF
P.S I too left school with few qualifications ( I am 45 now), it has not stopped me but it HAS hindered my progress. I do REGRET not studying harder while at school).
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
From: Northern Ireland
JWF.
I dont see how airlines will use academic filters for recruitment purposes. I too do regret studying harder at school, but I am not going to let it hinder me, any pilot with a desire to fly would not let it hinder them.
After all, if you can get through the hurdles of the ATPL course, you can do anything! GCSE's are irrelivant.
Even if it does come to the point where one does need GSCE's on top of an fATPL or ATPL they are not hard to get. Night classes for 3 weeks and an exam will get you a refresher in GCSE maths.
Cheers
Savage
I dont see how airlines will use academic filters for recruitment purposes. I too do regret studying harder at school, but I am not going to let it hinder me, any pilot with a desire to fly would not let it hinder them.
After all, if you can get through the hurdles of the ATPL course, you can do anything! GCSE's are irrelivant.
Even if it does come to the point where one does need GSCE's on top of an fATPL or ATPL they are not hard to get. Night classes for 3 weeks and an exam will get you a refresher in GCSE maths.
Cheers
Savage
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
From: MAN
Flyboybrad, I left education at Uni level and returned to it again, did the retail full time as well.
Retail is not an easy life , my advice would be get back into Education not just to have the extra "Plus Points" which as others are saying helps at selection stage. Even if is not directly relevant to a Pilot.
What happens if you fail your medical with something serious , your stuck with a 35,000 - 50,000 loan and no chance of flying. That is my concern, just a thought.
Good Luck ,
Jonathan
Retail is not an easy life , my advice would be get back into Education not just to have the extra "Plus Points" which as others are saying helps at selection stage. Even if is not directly relevant to a Pilot.
What happens if you fail your medical with something serious , your stuck with a 35,000 - 50,000 loan and no chance of flying. That is my concern, just a thought.
Good Luck ,
Jonathan
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Flyboy,
I have to agree with justwonnafly. I mean, mindfully not completing your education when there is plenty of time to do so is an unecessary risk.
Think about it like this. There is a chance you might get a decent flying job as opposed to you there is a good chance that you will.
Flying aside, at this stage of the planning, you need an exit strategy. Picture this, you have your £40,000 loan repayments to contend with and for some reason you are unable to fly (car crash injury, illness, whatever). WTF are you going to do now? No decent employer will touch you with a bargepole because you know nothing worth knowning and you have no track record. Now you cannot afford to take fulltime education...painted into a corner I would say!
However, best of luck with whichever path you choose
I have to agree with justwonnafly. I mean, mindfully not completing your education when there is plenty of time to do so is an unecessary risk.
Think about it like this. There is a chance you might get a decent flying job as opposed to you there is a good chance that you will.
Flying aside, at this stage of the planning, you need an exit strategy. Picture this, you have your £40,000 loan repayments to contend with and for some reason you are unable to fly (car crash injury, illness, whatever). WTF are you going to do now? No decent employer will touch you with a bargepole because you know nothing worth knowning and you have no track record. Now you cannot afford to take fulltime education...painted into a corner I would say!
However, best of luck with whichever path you choose
Guest
Posts: n/a
I didnt get all bad grades, I got top marks in two of my ten subjects. Maths and English was my downfall. I did have great potential to get great grades, somewhere along the line it went wrong tho.
I must admit I am very interested in a 6 year diploma in aero engineering....hmmm....but i dont really wanna give up flying now iv started.
I must admit I am very interested in a 6 year diploma in aero engineering....hmmm....but i dont really wanna give up flying now iv started.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
From: Midlands, UK
FBB,
Going on from what High Wing Drifter said, another potential problem with a lack of qualifications is, illnesses etc. asside, what if you qualify with a Frozen ATPL and are not forunate enough to walk straight into a flying job for which you are now qualified, you will rely on your previous qualifications to "pay your way" until you land yourself a job - licenses are very expensive to keep current.
If redo/attain your quailifactions, think of it as your get out or insurance if anything unplanned should happen. I'm 26, have a degree, a good job and a PPL but taking a loan out for 35k scares the hell out of me!!!!! My advice is think VERY CAREFULLY before you jump. Whatever you end up doing, good luck and I hope it works out for you.
Auto
Going on from what High Wing Drifter said, another potential problem with a lack of qualifications is, illnesses etc. asside, what if you qualify with a Frozen ATPL and are not forunate enough to walk straight into a flying job for which you are now qualified, you will rely on your previous qualifications to "pay your way" until you land yourself a job - licenses are very expensive to keep current.
If redo/attain your quailifactions, think of it as your get out or insurance if anything unplanned should happen. I'm 26, have a degree, a good job and a PPL but taking a loan out for 35k scares the hell out of me!!!!! My advice is think VERY CAREFULLY before you jump. Whatever you end up doing, good luck and I hope it works out for you.
Auto
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
From: Oxford(ish)
Another option.... Another story.....
Think about this. My distance vision easily exceeds 20/20, after corrective lenses. But i've got other problems as well.
I was 26 (now 29) when I got something called Empi. This basically damaged the retinas in my eyes. I have normal vision in my right eye, and some loss/disturbance of central vision in my left eye. I don't think I could hold a CPL in the UE, let alone an ATPL. If i'd followed the career path i'd wanted into aviation I might have been fortunate enough to have had 5-8 years of flying PPL, then maybe twins, Turbo props, and been looking for my first Airline job, just in time for a medical disqualification... Which would not have been good if i'd got a mortgage to pay for the course... Real world, it can happen. Go and ask at Oxford job centre (I have), they have a lot of newly-qualified pilots on their books... Income support doesn't pay enough to keep you "current" for very long, does it?
As it happens I followed a career into Engineering and IT so I don't rely on perfect vision for my career. But I do I have the same problem that you might one day face. I don't have much in the way of GCSEs and so on because I left school at 17 due to terminal boredom (due to lack of challenge). I do have the relevant industry qualifications, and quite a lot of experiance. But I know that many larger organisations won't give me a second glance because i'm not a graduate (yes, they prefer people who prefered to get drunk and lay in bed all day to people who went out to WORK for a living at 17!).
Last point!
Have you spoken to the RAF? I'm not suggesting you necessarily go for flight-crew roles with them, but they do offer cheap flying experiance to certain non-flying roles I understand. Perhaps someone could tell us more about that?
As for me? Well, i'm pretty sure flying for a living is out (at least in the UK) because when I was diagnosed I was actually asked if I was a pilot!. My pipe-dream is that one day I might save enough money to get out of here and go somewhere with less demanding requirements for flight-crew eyesight (any suggestions, anyone?). It can't be all that bad, after all, because they let me have a LGV licence with it as it is! But it's probably more realistic to hope for a Glider chitty or maybe a PPL some day. Who knows, if the IT thing works out, I might even be able to buy my own Microlight (instead of a Porsche!).
I was 26 (now 29) when I got something called Empi. This basically damaged the retinas in my eyes. I have normal vision in my right eye, and some loss/disturbance of central vision in my left eye. I don't think I could hold a CPL in the UE, let alone an ATPL. If i'd followed the career path i'd wanted into aviation I might have been fortunate enough to have had 5-8 years of flying PPL, then maybe twins, Turbo props, and been looking for my first Airline job, just in time for a medical disqualification... Which would not have been good if i'd got a mortgage to pay for the course... Real world, it can happen. Go and ask at Oxford job centre (I have), they have a lot of newly-qualified pilots on their books... Income support doesn't pay enough to keep you "current" for very long, does it?
As it happens I followed a career into Engineering and IT so I don't rely on perfect vision for my career. But I do I have the same problem that you might one day face. I don't have much in the way of GCSEs and so on because I left school at 17 due to terminal boredom (due to lack of challenge). I do have the relevant industry qualifications, and quite a lot of experiance. But I know that many larger organisations won't give me a second glance because i'm not a graduate (yes, they prefer people who prefered to get drunk and lay in bed all day to people who went out to WORK for a living at 17!).
Last point!
Have you spoken to the RAF? I'm not suggesting you necessarily go for flight-crew roles with them, but they do offer cheap flying experiance to certain non-flying roles I understand. Perhaps someone could tell us more about that?
As for me? Well, i'm pretty sure flying for a living is out (at least in the UK) because when I was diagnosed I was actually asked if I was a pilot!. My pipe-dream is that one day I might save enough money to get out of here and go somewhere with less demanding requirements for flight-crew eyesight (any suggestions, anyone?). It can't be all that bad, after all, because they let me have a LGV licence with it as it is! But it's probably more realistic to hope for a Glider chitty or maybe a PPL some day. Who knows, if the IT thing works out, I might even be able to buy my own Microlight (instead of a Porsche!).
