Pilots shortage? where?
Pilots shortage? where?
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,382
Likes: 0
From: Australia
There is no such thing as a pilot shortage. This is something the flying schools talk about when they are running out of ideas on how to get your buisness.
OWNER to CFI: "Were going to have to use the pilot shoratge trick on this one".
"Massive retirements" is another one.
There is a shortage of quality people however. The number of new CPL's that just sit in a capital city and then throw it in after noone replies to their letters is astonishing. Or the number of people who actually turn down jobs before going out and having a look is another big one.
There is a shortage of nurses not pilots.
OWNER to CFI: "Were going to have to use the pilot shoratge trick on this one".
"Massive retirements" is another one.
There is a shortage of quality people however. The number of new CPL's that just sit in a capital city and then throw it in after noone replies to their letters is astonishing. Or the number of people who actually turn down jobs before going out and having a look is another big one.
There is a shortage of nurses not pilots.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: Iceland
haha, stop dreaming, there is NO way that pilot shortage is happening for the next few years.
So go find another job or continue to flipp burgers for the next few years and maybe, just maybe you´ll get a flying job if you´re lucky.
If you get tired of the burger business, the malls always want securityguards with CPL/IFR, 1000+ hrs, frozen ATPL and all that stuff that make a good securityguard...
So go find another job or continue to flipp burgers for the next few years and maybe, just maybe you´ll get a flying job if you´re lucky.
If you get tired of the burger business, the malls always want securityguards with CPL/IFR, 1000+ hrs, frozen ATPL and all that stuff that make a good securityguard...
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: MK
We had an instructor vacancy for 6 months earlier this year but not one PILOT bothered to ring or even better knock on our door.
Finally WE had to find a PILOT amongst this huge shortage to fill the vacancy.
Their are jobs,i've changed jobs 3 times in two years,one because the school went under and another to follow my wife.
It's amazing what you can get if you get off your arse and look for it.
My second job came after 1200 miles of driving and knocking on doors in 3 days visiting 21 airfields and god knows how amny schools.
I suppose some might think instructing is below them and they are done with small aircraft,think again if you have just finished your CPL/IR.your a new boy and as best described by an old CFI i had "wet behind your ears".
I too was insulted,how dare he with 40 years of experience tell me a CPL with 250 hrs my business!!!
Their is a shortage of matured graduate pilots who have at least some experience and general awareness,very unfashionable i know as the hour building route has been lets say ,"sold" as no longer part of getting a right hand seat job.
Their is no experience like experience so with the new year arriving my advice to getting your first job is to to book yourself on a good FI course and at least get on the ladder.
Good luck and happy new year
Finally WE had to find a PILOT amongst this huge shortage to fill the vacancy.
Their are jobs,i've changed jobs 3 times in two years,one because the school went under and another to follow my wife.
It's amazing what you can get if you get off your arse and look for it.
My second job came after 1200 miles of driving and knocking on doors in 3 days visiting 21 airfields and god knows how amny schools.
I suppose some might think instructing is below them and they are done with small aircraft,think again if you have just finished your CPL/IR.your a new boy and as best described by an old CFI i had "wet behind your ears".
I too was insulted,how dare he with 40 years of experience tell me a CPL with 250 hrs my business!!!
Their is a shortage of matured graduate pilots who have at least some experience and general awareness,very unfashionable i know as the hour building route has been lets say ,"sold" as no longer part of getting a right hand seat job.
Their is no experience like experience so with the new year arriving my advice to getting your first job is to to book yourself on a good FI course and at least get on the ladder.
Good luck and happy new year
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
From: UK
Im glad that some pilots think instructing is beneath them! Theres not much worse than an instructor who only cares about getting hours in his log book at the cost of the student!
Unfortunatly some FTOs dont treat (or pay) their instructors to well, So there is a SHORTAGE OF PILOTS who really do just want to teach people how to fly!
Unfortunatly some FTOs dont treat (or pay) their instructors to well, So there is a SHORTAGE OF PILOTS who really do just want to teach people how to fly!
Last edited by 2WingsOnMyWagon; 30th December 2002 at 14:01.
Moderator
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 2,178
Likes: 0
From: UK
I am surprised to see posts that seem to imply that it takes a "Pilot shortage" to get a job. It might help but it is by no means a requirement.
During periods of rapid economic expansion shortages of skilled (and unskilled come to that ) labour often arise. It follows that Airlines have in the past had to take on large numbers of Pilots in a short period of time. This has occaisonally resulted in the situation where it seems that Airline jobs for low hour pilots have been more plentiful than is the norm. Traditionally most Airlines recruit from Three sources: The military, The skilled labour market ( other airlines/ air taxi companies / corporate flying etc ) , and the training school / low hour market.
Most companies buy the best they can get for the lowest cost. This means they recruit from the first 2 sources as a preference ( in most cases ). Large companies and in times of high demand also recruit from the third source although to a much smaller degree. Experienced Pilots are not as inflexible as some of you might like to believe and in any event they tend to keep the insurance companies happier.
However this shouldn't discourage low hour pilots and those training for professional licences. There are jobs available in aviation that will allow you to aquire the experience levels to move through the system. Of course there is still likely to be intense competition for all jobs and I am not suggesting that any particular route is easy. If you are determined and prove it through your own efforts you really stand a fair chance of acheiving your goals.
Another myth I often read is this "retirement bulge". The reality is that again in some years there may be more retirements than in others. Of course that may also occur in a period of economic downturn and go totally un-noticed. The truth of the matter is that these predicitions often fail to take into account the fact that Pilots don't all stay in work until their normal retirement dates. As in the rest of the population some will die early, some will retire early due to ill health, some will change careers, some will move to other markets ( abroad, managerial changes etc). This tends to have a much more levelling effect on the projections than the headlines would have you believe.
Aviation is a very diverse collection of careers. For some pilots ( not all by any means ) an Airline job is seen as the pinnacle of their career. If this is the case it is achievable by many routes, most will involve working your way through the apprenticeship level jobs. Some will involve a career change from one professional course to another ( eg Military to Civil ). A few will be lucky enough to get a fast track into an Airline career.
Whatever you decide or fate may hand you, those that go out and get the licence, then look for any work that helps them progress, and then maintain the determination to suceed. adapting as necessary are the people most likely to succeed and to posess the skills that will enable them to get to where they want to be.
On the other hand waiting around for "pilot shortages or squabbling about who has Degrees or HSBC loans, or hand wringing the fact that Airlines are not tripping over themselves to offer First Officer jobs in shiny new jets to low houred pilots, makes for interesting reading but isn't likely to change to the world or to achieve anything very tangible.
During periods of rapid economic expansion shortages of skilled (and unskilled come to that ) labour often arise. It follows that Airlines have in the past had to take on large numbers of Pilots in a short period of time. This has occaisonally resulted in the situation where it seems that Airline jobs for low hour pilots have been more plentiful than is the norm. Traditionally most Airlines recruit from Three sources: The military, The skilled labour market ( other airlines/ air taxi companies / corporate flying etc ) , and the training school / low hour market.
Most companies buy the best they can get for the lowest cost. This means they recruit from the first 2 sources as a preference ( in most cases ). Large companies and in times of high demand also recruit from the third source although to a much smaller degree. Experienced Pilots are not as inflexible as some of you might like to believe and in any event they tend to keep the insurance companies happier.
However this shouldn't discourage low hour pilots and those training for professional licences. There are jobs available in aviation that will allow you to aquire the experience levels to move through the system. Of course there is still likely to be intense competition for all jobs and I am not suggesting that any particular route is easy. If you are determined and prove it through your own efforts you really stand a fair chance of acheiving your goals.
Another myth I often read is this "retirement bulge". The reality is that again in some years there may be more retirements than in others. Of course that may also occur in a period of economic downturn and go totally un-noticed. The truth of the matter is that these predicitions often fail to take into account the fact that Pilots don't all stay in work until their normal retirement dates. As in the rest of the population some will die early, some will retire early due to ill health, some will change careers, some will move to other markets ( abroad, managerial changes etc). This tends to have a much more levelling effect on the projections than the headlines would have you believe.
Aviation is a very diverse collection of careers. For some pilots ( not all by any means ) an Airline job is seen as the pinnacle of their career. If this is the case it is achievable by many routes, most will involve working your way through the apprenticeship level jobs. Some will involve a career change from one professional course to another ( eg Military to Civil ). A few will be lucky enough to get a fast track into an Airline career.
Whatever you decide or fate may hand you, those that go out and get the licence, then look for any work that helps them progress, and then maintain the determination to suceed. adapting as necessary are the people most likely to succeed and to posess the skills that will enable them to get to where they want to be.
On the other hand waiting around for "pilot shortages or squabbling about who has Degrees or HSBC loans, or hand wringing the fact that Airlines are not tripping over themselves to offer First Officer jobs in shiny new jets to low houred pilots, makes for interesting reading but isn't likely to change to the world or to achieve anything very tangible.
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 1,692
Likes: 3
From: Domaine de la Romanee-Conti
Well said JD!
Having said that, I think a lot of wannabe's do have fair excuse to vent their frustration over this mythical 'predicted pilot shortage', because there are so many flying schools who make extravagant references to it in their marketing literature, and we were all suckered into believing it when we started off on this flying lark.
I would like to make it compulsory for anyone contemplating a career in aviation and reading all the glossy material from the schools, to also be forced to read this website for a couple of months before parting with any money.
Having said that, I think a lot of wannabe's do have fair excuse to vent their frustration over this mythical 'predicted pilot shortage', because there are so many flying schools who make extravagant references to it in their marketing literature, and we were all suckered into believing it when we started off on this flying lark.
I would like to make it compulsory for anyone contemplating a career in aviation and reading all the glossy material from the schools, to also be forced to read this website for a couple of months before parting with any money.
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
From: scotland
Prospect of a job in 2003
Hi everyone
Wish you all Happy New Year 2003
I hope that 2003 will bring us joy and pride of all our hard work and hard earn money spent to get a Pilot Licence.
We all are in the same boat trying to get back in the flying business so we don't have to dish out more and more our own money to keep the Licence current, which also keep the CAA happy.
I would urge all the guys to share information and help each other to over come the stress of not having a flying job.
I would also request the readers, those who have access to Employment Updates from BALPA, IPA and Co-Pilot Publication to share with others, those who are unfortunate to have these details.
good luck finding a flying job in 2003.
Wish you all Happy New Year 2003
I hope that 2003 will bring us joy and pride of all our hard work and hard earn money spent to get a Pilot Licence.
We all are in the same boat trying to get back in the flying business so we don't have to dish out more and more our own money to keep the Licence current, which also keep the CAA happy.
I would urge all the guys to share information and help each other to over come the stress of not having a flying job.
I would also request the readers, those who have access to Employment Updates from BALPA, IPA and Co-Pilot Publication to share with others, those who are unfortunate to have these details.
good luck finding a flying job in 2003.
Moderator
Joined: Dec 1997
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,929
Likes: 6
From: Suffolk UK
There is, and will be, no 'pilot shortage' as such, at least within UK. There is, however, usually a shortage of high-quality, experienced pilots. There will always be more Wannabes than jobs for low-houred pilots. Only those with exceptional resourcefulness, determination and luck are likely to succeed.
The employment updates issued by BALPA, the IPA and Co-Pilot are paid for by the members of those organisations and are copyrighted. I will not allow them to be 'pirated' here without the express pernission of the copyright owners. Membership of these organisations is cheap for a wannabe - and should be considered compulsory, if you're serious about job-seeking in UK!
Scroggs
Virgin/Wannabes Moderator
[email protected]
The employment updates issued by BALPA, the IPA and Co-Pilot are paid for by the members of those organisations and are copyrighted. I will not allow them to be 'pirated' here without the express pernission of the copyright owners. Membership of these organisations is cheap for a wannabe - and should be considered compulsory, if you're serious about job-seeking in UK!
Scroggs
Virgin/Wannabes Moderator
[email protected]
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
From: UK
There is, and will be, no 'pilot shortage' as such, at least within UK.
Is the retirement rumour thats being spoken about here, the one about vietnam vets? Or a completly different one?
In the USA a large number of commercial pilots were trained by the military during vietnam (A) (H). The majority of these pilots are or are coming to retirement age, thus there will be some openings for new pilots.
I heard this story before 9/11 but it does make some sense (I think). Any thoughts anyone?
HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 17,503
Likes: 1,845
From: England
The good people at Co-Pilot, the IPA and even Balpa certainly don't need their work undermined and job threatened by people stealing their material here. It happened quite a bit back in the good old days when the forum moved to this format. It was stamped on then.
I have been and remain amazed by serious Wannabes who do not subscribe the the aforementioned 3 channels of information and assistance. I know people with CPL/IR's Frzn ATPLs who are looking for work and DON'T subscribe to Co-Pilot, AREN'T members of the IPA and have never even considered JOINING Balpa.
Often they are the people who vaguely "just read PPRuNe a bit".
You can be do all the above for under a £100 a year and frankly if you are any way past the PPL stage you should be doing so.
I still get the Co-Pilot newsletter to keep in touch with whats happening out there...
I know of 2 people who got jobs directly from attending the Balpa Employment Conference. I know someone who now flies very big metal in the Middle East who got his first job by receiving the Co-pilot newsletter from the postman at 8 o'clock. He read that a tiny turbprop freight operator at an airfield 100 miles away was maybe kinda looking for perhaps one - maybe two - FO's, applications should be posted to blah blah...
He jumped in his clapped out Nissan (I sold him it so I know). He was sweet talking the Bosses secretary at 9.30 that morning, got a 10 minute interview by 10.00 and was on a type course the following week. He never looked back.
Information is power.
WWW
I have been and remain amazed by serious Wannabes who do not subscribe the the aforementioned 3 channels of information and assistance. I know people with CPL/IR's Frzn ATPLs who are looking for work and DON'T subscribe to Co-Pilot, AREN'T members of the IPA and have never even considered JOINING Balpa.
Often they are the people who vaguely "just read PPRuNe a bit".
You can be do all the above for under a £100 a year and frankly if you are any way past the PPL stage you should be doing so.
I still get the Co-Pilot newsletter to keep in touch with whats happening out there...
I know of 2 people who got jobs directly from attending the Balpa Employment Conference. I know someone who now flies very big metal in the Middle East who got his first job by receiving the Co-pilot newsletter from the postman at 8 o'clock. He read that a tiny turbprop freight operator at an airfield 100 miles away was maybe kinda looking for perhaps one - maybe two - FO's, applications should be posted to blah blah...
He jumped in his clapped out Nissan (I sold him it so I know). He was sweet talking the Bosses secretary at 9.30 that morning, got a 10 minute interview by 10.00 and was on a type course the following week. He never looked back.
Information is power.
WWW