Newbie FTO's + con artists!!!
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Newbie FTO's + con artists!!!
I have noticed one or two new adverts in mags for a few schools namely Westflight and Aeros both of which are based at Gloucester airport. I must have missed these in the past but can any one fill me in on them for the CPL/MEIR stage of training.
Also what caught my eye was epta's hugh undercutting of price for the residential atpl's groundschool (1600approx) and in a shorter time 19weeks. The time I think is rediculously short and the price is ever so tempting. I am already booked in on another groundschool course for feb but oooh the money I could save, but it seems a bit of a gamble.
All replies appreciated, I would especially like to hear about westflight and aeros.
I hope everyone has a happy new year
Also what caught my eye was epta's hugh undercutting of price for the residential atpl's groundschool (1600approx) and in a shorter time 19weeks. The time I think is rediculously short and the price is ever so tempting. I am already booked in on another groundschool course for feb but oooh the money I could save, but it seems a bit of a gamble.
All replies appreciated, I would especially like to hear about westflight and aeros.
I hope everyone has a happy new year
Jet Blast Rat
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Ask EPTA two things:
Is the price for the whole course? (the first I saw this price there was a very small footnote saying it was "per module")
Does 19 weeks include exam weeks and a week off for study before them, and any break after the first set for adjustment to fit in with the next exam time? Most of those quoting 24-26 weeks do. We think that our timetable is to the students' advantage, you decide which you prefer if theirs is actually shorter.
Best of luck wherever you study!
Is the price for the whole course? (the first I saw this price there was a very small footnote saying it was "per module")
Does 19 weeks include exam weeks and a week off for study before them, and any break after the first set for adjustment to fit in with the next exam time? Most of those quoting 24-26 weeks do. We think that our timetable is to the students' advantage, you decide which you prefer if theirs is actually shorter.
Best of luck wherever you study!
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Send Clowns,
I am not a spokesman for the EPTA and do not wish to violate the pprune "no advertising" rule, but I can answer your two questions.
The price quoted is for the entire groundschool, but is based upon students also signing up for the flying training (which is also very competitively priced). A higher (non-discounted) price applies for students who want only the groundschool. But even this non-discounted price compares well with most other schools (including yours).
The 19 week programme does not include the two weeks of examinations nor does it include any blank weeks prior to exams. The total elapsed time is in fact 22 weeks. this comprises of 1 week of free academic brush-up prior to starting the course, 19 weeks of training, plus two weeks of exams.
The total teaching time actually exceeds the JAR specification, and is longer than that of some other schools. There is however a downside in that reduced elapsed time means an increase in pressure on the students. The reduce elapsed time is achieved by teaching for 6.67 hour per day ( 8 x 50 minute periods), instead of the more usual 6 hours per day.
The grounschool package also includes free retraining for two further attempts at each subject that students fail. I'm not aware of any other school that guarantees to provide such training.
I am not a spokesman for the EPTA and do not wish to violate the pprune "no advertising" rule, but I can answer your two questions.
The price quoted is for the entire groundschool, but is based upon students also signing up for the flying training (which is also very competitively priced). A higher (non-discounted) price applies for students who want only the groundschool. But even this non-discounted price compares well with most other schools (including yours).
The 19 week programme does not include the two weeks of examinations nor does it include any blank weeks prior to exams. The total elapsed time is in fact 22 weeks. this comprises of 1 week of free academic brush-up prior to starting the course, 19 weeks of training, plus two weeks of exams.
The total teaching time actually exceeds the JAR specification, and is longer than that of some other schools. There is however a downside in that reduced elapsed time means an increase in pressure on the students. The reduce elapsed time is achieved by teaching for 6.67 hour per day ( 8 x 50 minute periods), instead of the more usual 6 hours per day.
The grounschool package also includes free retraining for two further attempts at each subject that students fail. I'm not aware of any other school that guarantees to provide such training.
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A reasonable answer, Keith. However it does not explain why this proce was first quoted as "per module" to some of our students.
I agree that your undiscounted price is competitive (in fact identical) with our own.
Friday
If you are tempted by this offer it will save you money - compared to EPTA's full price. I suggest before signing you look at a variety of schools, comparing prices not only of groundschool but what you commit to afterwards. Visit any schools you like the look of (there are 4 in Bournemouth. While visiting EPTA it is worth giving us all a look in!). Also before you make any commitments consider the points made in previous threads about prepayment of flying. People (I included) have lost a lot of money in the past.
I agree that your undiscounted price is competitive (in fact identical) with our own.
Friday
If you are tempted by this offer it will save you money - compared to EPTA's full price. I suggest before signing you look at a variety of schools, comparing prices not only of groundschool but what you commit to afterwards. Visit any schools you like the look of (there are 4 in Bournemouth. While visiting EPTA it is worth giving us all a look in!). Also before you make any commitments consider the points made in previous threads about prepayment of flying. People (I included) have lost a lot of money in the past.
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I have not seen the adds to which you refer and have no direct knowledge of who said what to whome, so I really cannot comment on your first statement Clowns.
I fully agree with you regarding visiting a large number of schools and being very careful about protecting your money. I give the very same advice to every potential customer who visits the EPTA.
Wherever a students chooses to study, he/she should always pay be credit card, eskrow account or (preferably) both.
A number of our current students have previously studied (and failed) at other schools. They could have saved themselves a lot of time any money if they had come to us first.
I fully agree with you regarding visiting a large number of schools and being very careful about protecting your money. I give the very same advice to every potential customer who visits the EPTA.
Wherever a students chooses to study, he/she should always pay be credit card, eskrow account or (preferably) both.
A number of our current students have previously studied (and failed) at other schools. They could have saved themselves a lot of time any money if they had come to us first.
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Gentlemen, while I appreciate your even-handedness, I would request that all FTO employees make it explicitly clear who they work for when making posts about their own, or other, FTOs. This will remove any doubts in readers' minds and preclude suspicion of 'sneaky' advertising. Thank you.
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Scroggs
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Westflight I don't know but Aeros have been around for a few years. You could do a lot worse, they are reputed to offer a high standard of training at a reasonable price. They were handicapped until recently by not having an FNPT2 simulator but I understand they have just had one installed.
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Aeros
Friday,
I did a PPl with Aeros some 2 years ago and found the standard of instuction very high with a decent fleet of aircraft availiable. Couple that with a decent airfield with all the facilities and you could do a lot worse....
I did a PPl with Aeros some 2 years ago and found the standard of instuction very high with a decent fleet of aircraft availiable. Couple that with a decent airfield with all the facilities and you could do a lot worse....
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I like the comment that EPTA offer free re-training for up to 2 re-sits. Of course you cannot say that students who train with school X will definitely pass 1st time as opposed to training with school Y, but I my first thoughts in hearinig this 'fall back' option is that they are anticipating that you will not pass first time! With a national average first time pass rate of somewhere in the region of 60% for Theory of Flight (this being the lowest first time pass rate of all 14) then yes it is safe to say that not everyone will get all 14 ATPL exams in their first attemt. However, it just makes me think that the school in question has little faith in their tuition if they offer this as standard!
I always say to any one looking for the cheapest training this is a very dangerous financial game to play. Please note that the advertising in question has a very small little star next to the price! The small print can sometimes be so deliberately small that if you do not know the questions to ask, some schools will not volunteer the answers. Please look out for the favourites additional costs VAT, fuel, test fees, landing fees AND approach fees, sometimes the advertised aircraft hire rates do not include the instructor!
Where ground school is concerned please ask to see the manuals, some schools are still using some very old notes. The reproduction of these can render them barely legible in places and the ammendments are thicker than the books themselves!
The best advice I can give anyone in choosing a school. Visit the school. Sounds obvious but you must be sure you are making the right choice for your 'investment'. If you can, speak to students, preferably away from the watchfull eye of the FTO itself. When I was training people used to ask me as they were visiting the school what I thought of it, with my instructor (the man who would be writing my report which would have some bearing on my future employment prospects) looking over my shoulder, I was very hesitant to say anything against the school. But talking in a neutral environment there were plenty of things to warn people about.
Advertising is designed to attract potential customers. Schools could advertise ATPL ground school courses 'from £100*' this would attract the attention and the enquiries therefore rendering the advertising effective. But on calling the company you would find out that * meant £100 for 30 minutes tuition, not including desk, chair, manuals or lighting and heating!
To all of you out there looking for a reputable FTO, there are many theives, rogues and vagabonds willing to take your cash, and there are many good, honest and well run schools. Good Luck in finding the right FTO for you, and good luck for your future career.
I always say to any one looking for the cheapest training this is a very dangerous financial game to play. Please note that the advertising in question has a very small little star next to the price! The small print can sometimes be so deliberately small that if you do not know the questions to ask, some schools will not volunteer the answers. Please look out for the favourites additional costs VAT, fuel, test fees, landing fees AND approach fees, sometimes the advertised aircraft hire rates do not include the instructor!
Where ground school is concerned please ask to see the manuals, some schools are still using some very old notes. The reproduction of these can render them barely legible in places and the ammendments are thicker than the books themselves!
The best advice I can give anyone in choosing a school. Visit the school. Sounds obvious but you must be sure you are making the right choice for your 'investment'. If you can, speak to students, preferably away from the watchfull eye of the FTO itself. When I was training people used to ask me as they were visiting the school what I thought of it, with my instructor (the man who would be writing my report which would have some bearing on my future employment prospects) looking over my shoulder, I was very hesitant to say anything against the school. But talking in a neutral environment there were plenty of things to warn people about.
Advertising is designed to attract potential customers. Schools could advertise ATPL ground school courses 'from £100*' this would attract the attention and the enquiries therefore rendering the advertising effective. But on calling the company you would find out that * meant £100 for 30 minutes tuition, not including desk, chair, manuals or lighting and heating!
To all of you out there looking for a reputable FTO, there are many theives, rogues and vagabonds willing to take your cash, and there are many good, honest and well run schools. Good Luck in finding the right FTO for you, and good luck for your future career.
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I agree with many of the general comments made by Impartial, but I am a bit bemused by the idea that offering free retraining is a sign of lack of confidence in the quality of tuition provided by the EPTA. If anything it is exactly the opposite. Any school which expects to have a high failure rate will not wish to offer free retraining because the cost will be too high. If a significant proportion of students were to fail, they would soon fill up the classrooms, leaving no spaces for fee paying students.
Instead of asking why a school would offer free retraining, it would more illuminating to ask why it would not. Why is it that those schools which claim to have a very high pass rate (up to 94% quoted in some cases) are unwilling to offer free retraining for the very small numbers of students who would need it?
I agree that potential students should visit as many schools as possible and talk to existing students (in private), to get a balanced view of the schools. When talking to the staff they should ask whether the school offers free retraining, and if not why not. I suggest a long period of reflection is appropriate if the reply to this question is anything like "No we don't, because our first time pass rates are so high that you will not require free retraining". CAA statistics show that over the year from 01 Nov 2001 to 31 Oct 2002 less than 74% of all the ATPL(A) exams taken were passed. This means that more than 26% of these exams had to be repeated. Only those students who are confident that their exams are going to be among 74% should be happy with the idea that retraining must be paid for.
Your suggestion that the prices quoted might not include many essential items might be true of some schools but it is not true in the case of the EPTA. The quoted price (just over £1680 plus VAT)is approximately half that charged by most other schools and includes the full two groundschool modules, plus free retraining where required. This price covers the full tuition fees but excludes the usual things such as, food and lodgings, daily travel to school, CAA examination fees, CRP5, electronic calculator, pens, pencils and protractors. As stated in my previous post, this discounted price is available only as part of a whole training package, including flight training. For those wishing to purchase only the groundschool training, the undiscounted fee is £3600 plus VAT, which also includes free retraining for any subjects that they fail.
In considering the comments made by various contributors to this string, readers should note that the EPTA is mentioned only because we are offering exceptionally good value for money. The staff of competing schools ( such as Send Clowns) have a vested interest in discouraging you from learning more about us. They do not wish to reduce their prices nor to offer free retraining.
Instead of asking why a school would offer free retraining, it would more illuminating to ask why it would not. Why is it that those schools which claim to have a very high pass rate (up to 94% quoted in some cases) are unwilling to offer free retraining for the very small numbers of students who would need it?
I agree that potential students should visit as many schools as possible and talk to existing students (in private), to get a balanced view of the schools. When talking to the staff they should ask whether the school offers free retraining, and if not why not. I suggest a long period of reflection is appropriate if the reply to this question is anything like "No we don't, because our first time pass rates are so high that you will not require free retraining". CAA statistics show that over the year from 01 Nov 2001 to 31 Oct 2002 less than 74% of all the ATPL(A) exams taken were passed. This means that more than 26% of these exams had to be repeated. Only those students who are confident that their exams are going to be among 74% should be happy with the idea that retraining must be paid for.
Your suggestion that the prices quoted might not include many essential items might be true of some schools but it is not true in the case of the EPTA. The quoted price (just over £1680 plus VAT)is approximately half that charged by most other schools and includes the full two groundschool modules, plus free retraining where required. This price covers the full tuition fees but excludes the usual things such as, food and lodgings, daily travel to school, CAA examination fees, CRP5, electronic calculator, pens, pencils and protractors. As stated in my previous post, this discounted price is available only as part of a whole training package, including flight training. For those wishing to purchase only the groundschool training, the undiscounted fee is £3600 plus VAT, which also includes free retraining for any subjects that they fail.
In considering the comments made by various contributors to this string, readers should note that the EPTA is mentioned only because we are offering exceptionally good value for money. The staff of competing schools ( such as Send Clowns) have a vested interest in discouraging you from learning more about us. They do not wish to reduce their prices nor to offer free retraining.
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Keith
"exceptionally good value for money"? You claim this is linked in with a flying course, so I think to justify that claim you would have to quote your rate for that, and explain how the money is kept safe (some schools do not accept prepayment of flying). You may ask our students how much free retraining they are allowed - they are at liberty to sit in on any lecture (as long as they ask the instructor) and use any classroom space that is free once they have completed the course, and our instructors are always willing to answer their questions. I suspect you offer no more.
I do not have a "... vested interest in discouraging you from learning more about [EPTA]." (I get paid to teach each course regardless of how many students it has) and if you bother to read my post I encourage (as I always do) readers to visit any schools they feel are favourable, and to see all in Bournemouth - actively encouraging him to visit you. I even pointed out that there are two other FTOs at Bournemouth apart from our own two, so he could arrange a visit to each while he is here.
impartial makes a very good point about the notes. As far as I am aware there are about 4 sets on the market that are good and only one that is poor, though that is used by more than one school. This means that by now most are using good notes (in the beginning none had useable notes!) but some still do rely on giving out huge amounts of lose paper.
"exceptionally good value for money"? You claim this is linked in with a flying course, so I think to justify that claim you would have to quote your rate for that, and explain how the money is kept safe (some schools do not accept prepayment of flying). You may ask our students how much free retraining they are allowed - they are at liberty to sit in on any lecture (as long as they ask the instructor) and use any classroom space that is free once they have completed the course, and our instructors are always willing to answer their questions. I suspect you offer no more.
I do not have a "... vested interest in discouraging you from learning more about [EPTA]." (I get paid to teach each course regardless of how many students it has) and if you bother to read my post I encourage (as I always do) readers to visit any schools they feel are favourable, and to see all in Bournemouth - actively encouraging him to visit you. I even pointed out that there are two other FTOs at Bournemouth apart from our own two, so he could arrange a visit to each while he is here.
impartial makes a very good point about the notes. As far as I am aware there are about 4 sets on the market that are good and only one that is poor, though that is used by more than one school. This means that by now most are using good notes (in the beginning none had useable notes!) but some still do rely on giving out huge amounts of lose paper.
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Look, before this gets too bitchy, as an EPTA student (airborne as opposed to groundborne), I'd just like to say the phrase 'loss leader' - if you think about it, that's what this is, i.e. EPTA have invested a lot of money, and are using this tactic to get bums on seats. Normal practice in any industry, for example, when a new gym opens in your area, they offer discounts to initial members until critical mass is achieved.
No doubt normal service will be resumed in due course.
No doubt normal service will be resumed in due course.
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Send Clowns,
I do not have the flying school prices to hand, but will post them next week when I do. They are lower than many others, so there is no question of us having increased the flying costs to fund the lower ground school costs.
You are incorrect regarding what free retraining means. It is certainly true that we will allow students to sit in on existing lectures and provide whatever out-of-class advice they require. But it goes much further than that. If for example a student were to be particularly ungifted and fail a large proportion of the exams, he/she would be provided with an entire re-run of the relevant module. In the (more probable) scenario of a limited number of failures, students can attend pre-planned consolidation courses.
But the system goes further than this. Some students from other schools have failed to complete the 14 exams within the required 18 months and wish to start again. In some cases they are concerned that the usual groundschool schedules are too demanding and want to spread their training over a longer period. In such cases our free retraining can be interpreted as doing two sequences of ground school to complete one sitting of the 14 subjects. In each module the student attends only those subjects that they intend to sit in the next exams. The spare periods can then be spent in spare classrooms, doing extra work on the subjects they intend to take next. By doing extra work on each subject and studying less subjects at each stage, they will increase their prospects of success. This will of course take much longer to complete, but it means that they get training far in excess of the CAA minimum, without paying extra tuition fees. And 42 weeks of training for a little over £1680 is a good deal by anyone's standards.
Your school may or may not allow free attendance in classes, but many do not. In the past there was no legal requirement for students to do a fixed amount of retraining after failing to complete their exams. The CAA are about to introduce a legal minimum, plus a requirement that all exam requests, including resits are signed by an FTO. For students attending many of the schools this will inevitably mean paying more money to their school.
Your assertion that you have no vested interest is clearly untrue. There are only a limited number of students available and every one that attends another school will not attend yours. More significantly, why is it that you sished to spread the unfounded rumour that the EPTA price was for only one module, without bothering to check the facts? As you say, both schools are at bournemouth, so we are just around the corner! Is it not the case that you wanted the rumour to be believed, ragardless of the truth?
Gin Slinger,
Welcome to the EPTA. I had not realized that it was you.
You are partly correct in you statement that the discounted groundschool cost is a loss leader. But our approach goes much further than that. The FTO market is already rather crowded, so any new school that hopes to make money by simply doing more of the same, is unlikley to prosper. The EPTA intends to thrive and become a market leader by being inovative. The strictures of the CAA impose tight controls on many aspects of the operations of schools. But this does not make inovation impossible. It just requires a little bit more thouight.
The very low prices might well be temporary, but the free retraining and imaginitive appraoch to improving our services will be a permanent aspect of the way we operate.
I do not have the flying school prices to hand, but will post them next week when I do. They are lower than many others, so there is no question of us having increased the flying costs to fund the lower ground school costs.
You are incorrect regarding what free retraining means. It is certainly true that we will allow students to sit in on existing lectures and provide whatever out-of-class advice they require. But it goes much further than that. If for example a student were to be particularly ungifted and fail a large proportion of the exams, he/she would be provided with an entire re-run of the relevant module. In the (more probable) scenario of a limited number of failures, students can attend pre-planned consolidation courses.
But the system goes further than this. Some students from other schools have failed to complete the 14 exams within the required 18 months and wish to start again. In some cases they are concerned that the usual groundschool schedules are too demanding and want to spread their training over a longer period. In such cases our free retraining can be interpreted as doing two sequences of ground school to complete one sitting of the 14 subjects. In each module the student attends only those subjects that they intend to sit in the next exams. The spare periods can then be spent in spare classrooms, doing extra work on the subjects they intend to take next. By doing extra work on each subject and studying less subjects at each stage, they will increase their prospects of success. This will of course take much longer to complete, but it means that they get training far in excess of the CAA minimum, without paying extra tuition fees. And 42 weeks of training for a little over £1680 is a good deal by anyone's standards.
Your school may or may not allow free attendance in classes, but many do not. In the past there was no legal requirement for students to do a fixed amount of retraining after failing to complete their exams. The CAA are about to introduce a legal minimum, plus a requirement that all exam requests, including resits are signed by an FTO. For students attending many of the schools this will inevitably mean paying more money to their school.
Your assertion that you have no vested interest is clearly untrue. There are only a limited number of students available and every one that attends another school will not attend yours. More significantly, why is it that you sished to spread the unfounded rumour that the EPTA price was for only one module, without bothering to check the facts? As you say, both schools are at bournemouth, so we are just around the corner! Is it not the case that you wanted the rumour to be believed, ragardless of the truth?
Gin Slinger,
Welcome to the EPTA. I had not realized that it was you.
You are partly correct in you statement that the discounted groundschool cost is a loss leader. But our approach goes much further than that. The FTO market is already rather crowded, so any new school that hopes to make money by simply doing more of the same, is unlikley to prosper. The EPTA intends to thrive and become a market leader by being inovative. The strictures of the CAA impose tight controls on many aspects of the operations of schools. But this does not make inovation impossible. It just requires a little bit more thouight.
The very low prices might well be temporary, but the free retraining and imaginitive appraoch to improving our services will be a permanent aspect of the way we operate.
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Keith
Do you really want me to explain how I came to see the advertising leaflet sent out to some of our students, the one that had a footnote saying "per module. Conditions apply"? Considering where your employer obtained the address of the person it was sent to, and the copyright and data protection laws of this country? Had I not seen that I would have assumed correctly that the reduction was connected with continuing the course, as such a "loss leader" is common.
Your description of what the student may do is identical to a student sitting in whatever lectures he feels he needs, except in the case of one going over the 18 months who would need all 14 resits which we might not look so kindly on. Since I know only one student who has done this (except where FTOs went out of business), and he had already sat all of the exams three times this is not a great benefit.
Where is my vested interest in having larger classes? It is in the interest of my employer, but I get the same pay whether there is one student or a dozen.
P.S. Can we calm this down? I have nothing against EPTA - it is good for Bournemouth to become known for flight training. I initially answered the question asked in the best way I could see, suggesting a couple of questions he should ask, certainly not discouraging him from contacting EPTA - I always advise people to visit several different FTOs.
Do you really want me to explain how I came to see the advertising leaflet sent out to some of our students, the one that had a footnote saying "per module. Conditions apply"? Considering where your employer obtained the address of the person it was sent to, and the copyright and data protection laws of this country? Had I not seen that I would have assumed correctly that the reduction was connected with continuing the course, as such a "loss leader" is common.
Your description of what the student may do is identical to a student sitting in whatever lectures he feels he needs, except in the case of one going over the 18 months who would need all 14 resits which we might not look so kindly on. Since I know only one student who has done this (except where FTOs went out of business), and he had already sat all of the exams three times this is not a great benefit.
Where is my vested interest in having larger classes? It is in the interest of my employer, but I get the same pay whether there is one student or a dozen.
P.S. Can we calm this down? I have nothing against EPTA - it is good for Bournemouth to become known for flight training. I initially answered the question asked in the best way I could see, suggesting a couple of questions he should ask, certainly not discouraging him from contacting EPTA - I always advise people to visit several different FTOs.
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A word of caution with reference to the substantial discounts being offered by EPTA. I remember when doing my research into which fto I was going to use as a provider SFT were offering huge discounts to people who were willing to pay upfront on the flying side three months later no sft and no money. Whilst the subject matter here concerns relatively small sums of money when you are a student it all mounts up. I ended up doing my irt with PAT an organisation I would recommend and passed first time now busy in sorting out my cv and saving for the stamps.
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Send clown,
To answer the challenge made in one of your previous posts
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"exceptionally good value for money"? You claim this is linked in with a flying course, so I think to justify that claim you would have to quote your rate for that, and explain how the money is kept safe
My reply
The package price prior to the introduction of the discounted groundschool was £27,153.33 plus VAT. The price with the discount is £24,953.00. If your intention was to imply that we had simply moved the costs from one part of the training to another, I think that this demonstrates that you are incorrect.
Students are required to pay a deposit of £500. For the remainder of the costs they can either pay on a trickle basis as the training progresses, or use an escrow account with the Bank of Scotland. (I think that even you would have to admit that they are a reasonably reputable company.) EPTA is able to draw money from this account only after each module of the training is completed.
To answer the challenge made in one of your previous posts
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"exceptionally good value for money"? You claim this is linked in with a flying course, so I think to justify that claim you would have to quote your rate for that, and explain how the money is kept safe
My reply
The package price prior to the introduction of the discounted groundschool was £27,153.33 plus VAT. The price with the discount is £24,953.00. If your intention was to imply that we had simply moved the costs from one part of the training to another, I think that this demonstrates that you are incorrect.
Students are required to pay a deposit of £500. For the remainder of the costs they can either pay on a trickle basis as the training progresses, or use an escrow account with the Bank of Scotland. (I think that even you would have to admit that they are a reasonably reputable company.) EPTA is able to draw money from this account only after each module of the training is completed.
Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: Suffolk UK
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OK, guys, enough. I think the bun fight between FTOs should really be carried out elsewhere. I'm well aware that each FTO is convinced (or at least will try to convince others) that it offers and delivers the best possible service to its customers on all occasions. Your correspondence seems unlikely to result in any agreement, at least between the two of you, and your proximity to each other should allow you to sort this out over a beer.
Now, I will close this thread as it's exceeded its useful life. But I would remind you of what I said earlier in the thread:
Scroggs
Virgin/Wannabes Moderator
[email protected]
Now, I will close this thread as it's exceeded its useful life. But I would remind you of what I said earlier in the thread:
Gentlemen, while I appreciate your even-handedness, I would request that all FTO employees make it explicitly clear who they work for when making posts about their own, or other, FTOs. This will remove any doubts in readers' minds and preclude suspicion of 'sneaky' advertising. Thank you.
Scroggs
Virgin/Wannabes Moderator
[email protected]
