Conversion confusion
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Conversion confusion
I've been considering taking up full time training to CPL / MEIR or possibly Frozen ATPL. This will involve giving up my current livelihood to pursue a career in aviation, all going well that is.
I cannot afford the £60k plus it would cost to achieve this in the UK and have therefore been considering Australia which has it's own appeal apart from the financial advantages. My aim is to return to the UK to find employment here once the training is complete.
However I have become totally confused by the issues around converting the Australian license to a, UK and or JAR equivalent.
Can anybody clarify the situation for me?
Is there an efficient, cost effective alternative such as training to CPL level in Australia, converting and then completing to ATPL in the UK.
Perhaps there is or should be a dedicated course to understand the CAA / JAR licensing issues!!
I cannot afford the £60k plus it would cost to achieve this in the UK and have therefore been considering Australia which has it's own appeal apart from the financial advantages. My aim is to return to the UK to find employment here once the training is complete.
However I have become totally confused by the issues around converting the Australian license to a, UK and or JAR equivalent.
Can anybody clarify the situation for me?
Is there an efficient, cost effective alternative such as training to CPL level in Australia, converting and then completing to ATPL in the UK.
Perhaps there is or should be a dedicated course to understand the CAA / JAR licensing issues!!
Guest
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J,
U can find all the informations about licence conversions on the CAA website @ the following page :
www.srg.caa.co.uk/pld/fcl/fcl_faq.asp
As far as I know an Aussie licence is just another non-JAA licence & won't give U more (or less) exemptions than say an FAA licence, which is probably cheaper to get.
U can still convert a non-JAA CPL to a JAA CPL without having to follow an approved course, but a non-JAA IR cannot B converted to a JAA IR anymore (since 01 Feb 2001).
MF
U can find all the informations about licence conversions on the CAA website @ the following page :
www.srg.caa.co.uk/pld/fcl/fcl_faq.asp
As far as I know an Aussie licence is just another non-JAA licence & won't give U more (or less) exemptions than say an FAA licence, which is probably cheaper to get.
U can still convert a non-JAA CPL to a JAA CPL without having to follow an approved course, but a non-JAA IR cannot B converted to a JAA IR anymore (since 01 Feb 2001).
MF
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It is perfectly possible to get a CPL/IR in the UK for considerably less than 60k. Even the full integrated course at OATS isn't as much as that, and if you do a full time modular couse with a smaller school it can cost as little as £30,000. Shop around a bit-it needn't be that expensive.
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Multiflight are offering the full modular course for £30,000 with the first two modules in the US (PPL and hour building), the groundschool module by distance learning with Bristol followed by CPL/IR/MCC modules at Leeds Bradford. They often have a banner ad on pprune so watch for it.
Doing CPL/IR modules with them currently and am happy.
I think a school at Stapleford was offering something similar at a similar price but I have no experience of their training to comment on.
Doing CPL/IR modules with them currently and am happy.
I think a school at Stapleford was offering something similar at a similar price but I have no experience of their training to comment on.
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I am currently converting my Aus ATPL to a JAA one.
This is what I have managed to cobble together about doing that. Really, as others have said, you would be better off thoroughly researching all the alternatives here. If you want to work in Oz, then it is a much simpler thing to convert a British or JAA lic to Oz than the other way.
Naturally, some points won't apply to you.
Note, it pertains to a FULL ATPL, not a CPL with ATPL subjects aka a "frozen ATPL"
Conversion from a full Australian ATPL to a JAR ATPL. Source documents are CAA JAR-FCL ATPL (A) GID 25 (Version 2) and the CAA Policy Update 1 April 2001. Please check with the CAA-SRG for the latest info, available on their website www.srg.caa.co.uk
If you do not hold 500 hours in a 2 pilot aeroplane (or 500 hour in 2 crew ops) then it will be an extremely expensive affair.
To convert the Aust ATPL you must:-
1. Pass the medical. This can only be done at Gatwick at a cost of 189 pounds. This reduced rate applies if you have over 500 hours.
2. Pass all of the JAR ATPL theory exams. Exam fees are 718 pounds (total). There are 14 subjects and thus 14 exams.
3. With respect to the theory, usually you have to do 650 hours face to face OR an approved distance learning course. That still does involve some face to face work. You can get a reduction but unless you are an absolute genius or have the CD-ROM like memory, I wouldn’t advise it. Course fees vary from 2000 pounds to 4000 pounds. Most courses run full time for at least 6 months in total. Allow 100 pounds a week for rent and food.
4. If you have 500 hours or more in a 2 pilot aeroplane, then all you need to do is a check flight aka ATPL Skills test in that aeroplane/simulator. Ie got 600 hours in a Dash 8, then you only need to do a skills test (including IR) in the Dash 8. Note, you must do this in a JAR country. If you have done the theory in the UK, I think you must then do the flying in the UK too.
5. If you are not in current flying practice on a multi pilot aeroplane then you must do a JAR type rating that is approved by the CAA. Then you just have to pass the check ride and IR with an examiner authorised by the CAA.
6. Exemptions/allowances may be given for operations on single pilot 2 crew hours. Eg, Bandeirante and Twin Otters. However, you must supply written evidence that they were operated exclusively 2 crew. Also, national law must state that they had to be operated two crew. Eg, Aust CAO 82.3.
If you do not have the above hours and experience, then you will have to do a full instrument rating in the UK. Ie 55 hours. You may get a 5 hour reduction. This will cost approx 9 to 13,000 pounds. Also, depending on the job market you will probably be up for a MCC rating. That is worth 2-4,000 pounds. The MCC is a multi crew cooperation course for pilots wanting their first multi pilot endorsement. Some companies do them in house, many don’t.
The JAR ATPL exams aren’t impossible, just a lot of work. They are similar in difficulty to the Australian ATPL exams. Subjects are Navigation, Radio Navigation, Meteorology, Air Law, Jar Ops, Comms (IFR & VFR), Human Performance and Limitations, Instruments/Electronics, Mass and Balance, Performance, Principles of flight, Airframe/systems & powerplants, Flight Planning.
With regards to the job scene. It is pretty good for experienced pilots with airline and turbine experience. Piston only people are finding it very hard to get work in the UK now as many employers prefer to hire a local with only piston time. Needless to say, right of abode or a UK/European pass port is highly desirable and practically essential.
This is what I have managed to cobble together about doing that. Really, as others have said, you would be better off thoroughly researching all the alternatives here. If you want to work in Oz, then it is a much simpler thing to convert a British or JAA lic to Oz than the other way.
Naturally, some points won't apply to you.
Note, it pertains to a FULL ATPL, not a CPL with ATPL subjects aka a "frozen ATPL"
Conversion from a full Australian ATPL to a JAR ATPL. Source documents are CAA JAR-FCL ATPL (A) GID 25 (Version 2) and the CAA Policy Update 1 April 2001. Please check with the CAA-SRG for the latest info, available on their website www.srg.caa.co.uk
If you do not hold 500 hours in a 2 pilot aeroplane (or 500 hour in 2 crew ops) then it will be an extremely expensive affair.
To convert the Aust ATPL you must:-
1. Pass the medical. This can only be done at Gatwick at a cost of 189 pounds. This reduced rate applies if you have over 500 hours.
2. Pass all of the JAR ATPL theory exams. Exam fees are 718 pounds (total). There are 14 subjects and thus 14 exams.
3. With respect to the theory, usually you have to do 650 hours face to face OR an approved distance learning course. That still does involve some face to face work. You can get a reduction but unless you are an absolute genius or have the CD-ROM like memory, I wouldn’t advise it. Course fees vary from 2000 pounds to 4000 pounds. Most courses run full time for at least 6 months in total. Allow 100 pounds a week for rent and food.
4. If you have 500 hours or more in a 2 pilot aeroplane, then all you need to do is a check flight aka ATPL Skills test in that aeroplane/simulator. Ie got 600 hours in a Dash 8, then you only need to do a skills test (including IR) in the Dash 8. Note, you must do this in a JAR country. If you have done the theory in the UK, I think you must then do the flying in the UK too.
5. If you are not in current flying practice on a multi pilot aeroplane then you must do a JAR type rating that is approved by the CAA. Then you just have to pass the check ride and IR with an examiner authorised by the CAA.
6. Exemptions/allowances may be given for operations on single pilot 2 crew hours. Eg, Bandeirante and Twin Otters. However, you must supply written evidence that they were operated exclusively 2 crew. Also, national law must state that they had to be operated two crew. Eg, Aust CAO 82.3.
If you do not have the above hours and experience, then you will have to do a full instrument rating in the UK. Ie 55 hours. You may get a 5 hour reduction. This will cost approx 9 to 13,000 pounds. Also, depending on the job market you will probably be up for a MCC rating. That is worth 2-4,000 pounds. The MCC is a multi crew cooperation course for pilots wanting their first multi pilot endorsement. Some companies do them in house, many don’t.
The JAR ATPL exams aren’t impossible, just a lot of work. They are similar in difficulty to the Australian ATPL exams. Subjects are Navigation, Radio Navigation, Meteorology, Air Law, Jar Ops, Comms (IFR & VFR), Human Performance and Limitations, Instruments/Electronics, Mass and Balance, Performance, Principles of flight, Airframe/systems & powerplants, Flight Planning.
With regards to the job scene. It is pretty good for experienced pilots with airline and turbine experience. Piston only people are finding it very hard to get work in the UK now as many employers prefer to hire a local with only piston time. Needless to say, right of abode or a UK/European pass port is highly desirable and practically essential.
