Complete Multi IR first to reduce CPL required hours??
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Complete Multi IR first to reduce CPL required hours??
Flying in the face of all logic, does one benefit from doing the IR first?
Having been looking at Wycombe Air Centre's web site, it states 25 hour CPL £4550, or if one already has an IR, one needs 15 hours training for the smaller fee of £2750.
Looking at the IR costs, it doesn't mention needing the CPL first.
Am I missing something?
F
PS. Meeting with HSBC tomorrow to discuss a loan for the last £10k needed to top up the very big pot of pennies needed for the fATPL!
Having been looking at Wycombe Air Centre's web site, it states 25 hour CPL £4550, or if one already has an IR, one needs 15 hours training for the smaller fee of £2750.
Looking at the IR costs, it doesn't mention needing the CPL first.
Am I missing something?
F
PS. Meeting with HSBC tomorrow to discuss a loan for the last £10k needed to top up the very big pot of pennies needed for the fATPL!
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I did the MIR first, followed by the CPL.
You don't need a CPL to do the MIR course
Benefit is; the CPL course is reduced by 10 hours by owning an IR. It works out the most economical way to do the two together and I'm sure your bank manager will be impressed with your use of initiative!
You'll skip all the IF stuff until the end, but still get tested on all the IF section in the CPL, they just don't concentrate on it during the CPL tuition as it is assumed you are (still!) competent at IF!
Good luck!
5150
You don't need a CPL to do the MIR course
Benefit is; the CPL course is reduced by 10 hours by owning an IR. It works out the most economical way to do the two together and I'm sure your bank manager will be impressed with your use of initiative!
You'll skip all the IF stuff until the end, but still get tested on all the IF section in the CPL, they just don't concentrate on it during the CPL tuition as it is assumed you are (still!) competent at IF!
Good luck!
5150
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Hopefully you have spotted a flaw in the great CAA plan. That being to wastlesly use money in the great aim of producing fewer pilots.
If your perception is true then go for it. But to be honest the IR is such a great money pit that another £1,800 will easily be spent in the pusuit of the impossible. From WAC that may pay for your transit flights to the great test centre in the sky.
I dearly hope you have found a flaw in the great money swallowing system.
Good luck in your dreams.
18.
Ps I'm not trying to sound cynical but the IR is a great challenge. Imagine one of those games where you thread a metal ring along a coathanger bent in most difficult ways without setting off the light. Now imagine doing that for 2.2 hours. That is what the IR is like. Maybe my experience was unusual or maybe a few graduates of the scheme will back me up.
If your perception is true then go for it. But to be honest the IR is such a great money pit that another £1,800 will easily be spent in the pusuit of the impossible. From WAC that may pay for your transit flights to the great test centre in the sky.
I dearly hope you have found a flaw in the great money swallowing system.
Good luck in your dreams.
18.
Ps I'm not trying to sound cynical but the IR is a great challenge. Imagine one of those games where you thread a metal ring along a coathanger bent in most difficult ways without setting off the light. Now imagine doing that for 2.2 hours. That is what the IR is like. Maybe my experience was unusual or maybe a few graduates of the scheme will back me up.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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If I recall correctly (and I'm not 100% sure on this), don't you get 5 hours off the IR if you've got a CPL? Not quite as much as the 10 hours you get if you do it the other way round, admitedly, but...
However, these are minimums. How many people complete the course in the minimum time? So, really, any reduction in minimum hours doesn't necessarilly equate to a reduction in actual hours flown, except for a very few naturally-gifted people.
I suspect the reason many people do the CPL first is because of the options it opens, for example in aerial photography or flight instructing, while saving money for the IR. If you do the IR first, you can't get a flying job until you've got the CPL. Of course, if you've already got the cash for both, and you're doing them back-to-back, this point is not relevant.
FFF
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However, these are minimums. How many people complete the course in the minimum time? So, really, any reduction in minimum hours doesn't necessarilly equate to a reduction in actual hours flown, except for a very few naturally-gifted people.
I suspect the reason many people do the CPL first is because of the options it opens, for example in aerial photography or flight instructing, while saving money for the IR. If you do the IR first, you can't get a flying job until you've got the CPL. Of course, if you've already got the cash for both, and you're doing them back-to-back, this point is not relevant.
FFF
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FlyingForFun is quite correct, if you already hold a CPL you are entitled to a 5 hour reduction from the full IR course of 55 hours (therefore the course becomes 50 hours
) In those 50 hours a minimum of 15 hours must be completed on the multi engine aircraft. A maximum of 20 hours can be completed in a FNPT G sim or up to 40 hours in a FNPT 2 sim.
In all honesty I think even the best students find they want more time on the aircraft than just the min. 15 hours.
As for taking the IR prior to the CPL, my personal view (having done the CPL then IR) is that this would be throwing yourself in at the deep end. The learning curve through a professional training course is quite steep and I found that moving onto the twin having been flying an arrow was a very steep curve!
The CPL course is little more than a regimented PPL with tighter limits and a few extra exercises, this is a logical progression from PPL to CPL. The IR then builds on your knowledge and experience gained in the CPL and adds another engine (amongst other things!)
The other factor is weather. If you are looking at starting your training in the UK in January then it may be better to start the IR first as the training is not as dependent on the availability of VMC, thus you can get airborne and complete an IR sortie in conditions that wouldn't be suitable for CPL training.
The CPL course requires a minimum of 5 hours in the complex single aircraft. Some students seem to prefer increasing this to around 10 hours of the course, as they do not feel confident going for test with this little experience on a complex type. By completeing the IR first they would have gained the experience and feel more confident in the CPL syllabus.
I hope these points are of use to you, if you need any further information i am happy to help.
) In those 50 hours a minimum of 15 hours must be completed on the multi engine aircraft. A maximum of 20 hours can be completed in a FNPT G sim or up to 40 hours in a FNPT 2 sim. In all honesty I think even the best students find they want more time on the aircraft than just the min. 15 hours.
As for taking the IR prior to the CPL, my personal view (having done the CPL then IR) is that this would be throwing yourself in at the deep end. The learning curve through a professional training course is quite steep and I found that moving onto the twin having been flying an arrow was a very steep curve!
The CPL course is little more than a regimented PPL with tighter limits and a few extra exercises, this is a logical progression from PPL to CPL. The IR then builds on your knowledge and experience gained in the CPL and adds another engine (amongst other things!)
The other factor is weather. If you are looking at starting your training in the UK in January then it may be better to start the IR first as the training is not as dependent on the availability of VMC, thus you can get airborne and complete an IR sortie in conditions that wouldn't be suitable for CPL training.
The CPL course requires a minimum of 5 hours in the complex single aircraft. Some students seem to prefer increasing this to around 10 hours of the course, as they do not feel confident going for test with this little experience on a complex type. By completeing the IR first they would have gained the experience and feel more confident in the CPL syllabus.
I hope these points are of use to you, if you need any further information i am happy to help.
I say there boy
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As impartial says, few people pass first time on minimum hours anyway, so any saving is highly likely to be academic.
You must always build into your budget a healthy leeway for overruns. I'd say at least 15%, 25% would be better.
Cheers!
foggy.
You must always build into your budget a healthy leeway for overruns. I'd say at least 15%, 25% would be better.
Cheers!
foggy.
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false economy
concur with some of the above comments. I did it the wrong way round and yes I did save 10 hours on the cpl, but I believe that I would have completed the IR in about 10 fewer hours if I had the cpl under my belt. Work it out.....10 hours in a Seneca vs. 10 hrs in an Arrow.
x
x
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I'm hoping to do a multi CPL first. Then do the multi IR after.
My theory is to get the multi part under my belt first - the lesser workload of the CPL over the IR should make this easier to take on board. Then when I come to do the IR, I will already be able to fly a multi engine aircraft so will free to concentrate on the IR.
It means the CPL will cost perhaps £1k more, but should at least pay itself back, if not save more money with the IR.
Like foghorn said, very few people pass on minimums.
I'll try it and let you know!
Bodie
My theory is to get the multi part under my belt first - the lesser workload of the CPL over the IR should make this easier to take on board. Then when I come to do the IR, I will already be able to fly a multi engine aircraft so will free to concentrate on the IR.
It means the CPL will cost perhaps £1k more, but should at least pay itself back, if not save more money with the IR.
Like foghorn said, very few people pass on minimums.
I'll try it and let you know!
Bodie
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I also did the IR first then the CPL
You also need to have your MEP test done before the IR and a night rating issued on your PPL.
I did my IR at Leeds flying school and they are pretty good ( ie as much as you like) with there free solo sim time when your on a full time course. Which makes a huge difference.
MJ
You also need to have your MEP test done before the IR and a night rating issued on your PPL.
I did my IR at Leeds flying school and they are pretty good ( ie as much as you like) with there free solo sim time when your on a full time course. Which makes a huge difference.
MJ
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Hi Guys
With all this talk of IR and CPL I was wondering what your opinions were on doing both of these courses in the States at a JAA approved school rather than the UK. I've heard some people say that airlines prefer their candidates to have done their CPL and IR training in the UK. Do you there is any truth to this?
Thanks
Smoothk
With all this talk of IR and CPL I was wondering what your opinions were on doing both of these courses in the States at a JAA approved school rather than the UK. I've heard some people say that airlines prefer their candidates to have done their CPL and IR training in the UK. Do you there is any truth to this?
Thanks
Smoothk
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to get the 5 hours reduction from the approved ir course you need to be issued with the cpl first not just pass the test. to be issued with the cpl you need a min of 200 hrs not including sim time unless youve done an integrated course when its 150 hrs
