Modular Wisdom gained the hard way
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Very useful thread.
I’ve just decided to take the leap myself and here are the (rounded-up) figures I’ve come up with for the modular route I’m planning to take. I’m a 200-hour PPL.
£1,900 Distance learning ATPL theory course (Bristol)
£1,100 Exam fees etc.
£8,000 CPL/ME (Based on Cabair minimum, inc. VAT and test fee)
£13,000 IR (as above)
£9,000 40% idiot factor.
£500 Medical
_______________
£33,500 TOTAL
As I’m not based in the UK at the moment, there’ll be large travelling and accommodation fees, for which I’m prepared.
Are these realistic figures? I’d appreciate any feedback.
Gash
I’ve just decided to take the leap myself and here are the (rounded-up) figures I’ve come up with for the modular route I’m planning to take. I’m a 200-hour PPL.
£1,900 Distance learning ATPL theory course (Bristol)
£1,100 Exam fees etc.
£8,000 CPL/ME (Based on Cabair minimum, inc. VAT and test fee)
£13,000 IR (as above)
£9,000 40% idiot factor.
£500 Medical
_______________
£33,500 TOTAL
As I’m not based in the UK at the moment, there’ll be large travelling and accommodation fees, for which I’m prepared.
Are these realistic figures? I’d appreciate any feedback.
Gash
Your figures look about right. I would add a mandatory £1200 for an IR fail/re-take (it takes the pressure off the day if you know you can at least afford to come back tomorrow).
Good luck,
WWW
Good luck,
WWW
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This is a good thread
In my opinion the areas of understatement lie
in the following:
The loss of income associated with quitting
ones job and not being paid is not factored
into the headline figures for pilot training
The average gross wage in the UK is £25K
and if you substitute this for a full time position as an FI its replaced by a salary
of £10K so youre still losing at the end of training
The TOTAL loss of income until one recovers to the wage level of £25K can be considerable and greater than the cost of training !!!!!!
One thing is for sure nobody goes into this
game self sponsored without suffering big
time financially.
JAR has had the effect of increasing cost by
increasing difficulty cost and time. In the old
days people used to build time as a PPL/FI
do the exams part time and then the flight
tests when and if appropriate.. Now they do the business and find themselves in a euro market flooded with type rated Belgians
[ 15 January 2002: Message edited by: RVR800 ]</p>
In my opinion the areas of understatement lie
in the following:
The loss of income associated with quitting
ones job and not being paid is not factored
into the headline figures for pilot training
The average gross wage in the UK is £25K
and if you substitute this for a full time position as an FI its replaced by a salary
of £10K so youre still losing at the end of training
The TOTAL loss of income until one recovers to the wage level of £25K can be considerable and greater than the cost of training !!!!!!
One thing is for sure nobody goes into this
game self sponsored without suffering big
time financially.
JAR has had the effect of increasing cost by
increasing difficulty cost and time. In the old
days people used to build time as a PPL/FI
do the exams part time and then the flight
tests when and if appropriate.. Now they do the business and find themselves in a euro market flooded with type rated Belgians
[ 15 January 2002: Message edited by: RVR800 ]</p>
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Firstly I must say this one of the best threads I've read on Pprune in a long time.
I'm just at the point where I will be doing some hour building as I have nearly finished my PPL. Does any one have any advice as to how to maintain good habits/prevent bad ones?
The reason I ask is that many people posting warn about developing bad habits but could anyone pass on any tips as to what and what-not to do when building hours.
I'm just at the point where I will be doing some hour building as I have nearly finished my PPL. Does any one have any advice as to how to maintain good habits/prevent bad ones?
The reason I ask is that many people posting warn about developing bad habits but could anyone pass on any tips as to what and what-not to do when building hours.
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Fly test profiles for the flight tests you
want to pass ultimately use the CAA SRG site
for detail.
Set standards for yourself. Get a back seat on an instructional flight for CPL or IR to give yourself a target to aim for in your own flying.
If your building time do night / multi / IFR
where poss
Genete scenarios where your workload is high
and be critical of yor performance
Hope this helps
DONT FLY ROUND ORANGE GROVES IN FLORIDA
LOOKING AT YOUR WATCH
want to pass ultimately use the CAA SRG site
for detail.
Set standards for yourself. Get a back seat on an instructional flight for CPL or IR to give yourself a target to aim for in your own flying.
If your building time do night / multi / IFR
where poss
Genete scenarios where your workload is high
and be critical of yor performance
Hope this helps
DONT FLY ROUND ORANGE GROVES IN FLORIDA
LOOKING AT YOUR WATCH
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WWW:- I’ll add that to my estimates. Thanks.
Spitfire747:- At the moment I’m budgeting for £500 per week while staying in the UK for the two-week study sessions, exams and the actual flying training...so there goes another few grand out the window <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
Spitfire747:- At the moment I’m budgeting for £500 per week while staying in the UK for the two-week study sessions, exams and the actual flying training...so there goes another few grand out the window <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
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Superb post! Thanks for all the advice - it is heard!
I finished my PPL last year and am looking at going through the modular route over the next two years. I've done most of the calc's and come to similar figures as everyone else, i dread to think of what else I could spend that kind of money on but I know that this is what I want and i'm gonna go for it.
That in it's self is why I joined Pprune. Sure there are regular negative comments on the forums but generally must of us see the mountain, pull up our socks and start climbing! In my current job I hear excuses all the time, I never made it this far because..., This thingy was always standing in my way.. etc. We ARE gonna make it 'cos virtually everyone here has the drive to succeed.
Chin up, it's costing us a lot of money to do this but as someone once said on a previous post "One day someone will actually pay us to do this" (Not sure who it was).
Cheers for the support!
CBK
I finished my PPL last year and am looking at going through the modular route over the next two years. I've done most of the calc's and come to similar figures as everyone else, i dread to think of what else I could spend that kind of money on but I know that this is what I want and i'm gonna go for it.
That in it's self is why I joined Pprune. Sure there are regular negative comments on the forums but generally must of us see the mountain, pull up our socks and start climbing! In my current job I hear excuses all the time, I never made it this far because..., This thingy was always standing in my way.. etc. We ARE gonna make it 'cos virtually everyone here has the drive to succeed.
Chin up, it's costing us a lot of money to do this but as someone once said on a previous post "One day someone will actually pay us to do this" (Not sure who it was).
Cheers for the support!
CBK
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Regarding the structured hour building. In my own experience, and not disagreed with by colleagues and commercial instructors, the hour building towards your CPL needs to be more about honing the fundamental skills, rather than developing new skills. For instance, by the time I came to do my CPL, my attitude flying was crappy, lookout even worse. As for holding height in a circuit…any thing could be happening, and often was. Much of the CPL training is not teaching you anything new, but just the same old things to a higher professional standard in a higher performance aircraft.
Having now done an FI course (where my flying has improved no end) I can now see that a lot of my inadequacies during my CPL were due to the inability to trim an aircraft ‘using the correct technique’. Earlier on in this thread I mentioned the opportunity to polish your bad habits during hour building…and that is exactly what I did. As a result my CPL training went over the minimums (as mentioned earlier) as I struggled to correctly trim a Duchess at £250 per hour…much better to learn the correct technique to do this in a C150 at £60 per hour when you are hour building.
My recommendation for hour building would be to fly with an instructor occasionally to ensure that you are using the correct technique. in particular:
· Trimming the aircraft correctly – if it is not then everything else will go to **** as soon as you look at your map, turn, talk or whatever.
· Lookout…you are probably not doing enough
· Get the radio right…if you don’t adequately it can really increase the workload
· Fly a height and stick to it (downdraughts excepted)
· Polished circuits (not’ that’ll do) leading to Stabilised Approaches, leading to good landings
· Fly by numbers/procedures not seat of pants (debatable I know for PPLs but essential for commercial training)
· Get used to controlled airspace, ATIS, ground/tower/approach frequency operation, complex fields etc
· Fly to a plan…don’t bumble around. Fly a height and a heading, use a stopwatch
All said and done, I found the CPL to be nothing that I hadn’t covered on my PPL (except multi training). So you can waste your time notching up the numbers or really prepare yourself for a first time pass. The secret? Correct technique and practice.
Do you know if you are using the correct technique?
<img src="eek.gif" border="0">
Having now done an FI course (where my flying has improved no end) I can now see that a lot of my inadequacies during my CPL were due to the inability to trim an aircraft ‘using the correct technique’. Earlier on in this thread I mentioned the opportunity to polish your bad habits during hour building…and that is exactly what I did. As a result my CPL training went over the minimums (as mentioned earlier) as I struggled to correctly trim a Duchess at £250 per hour…much better to learn the correct technique to do this in a C150 at £60 per hour when you are hour building.
My recommendation for hour building would be to fly with an instructor occasionally to ensure that you are using the correct technique. in particular:
· Trimming the aircraft correctly – if it is not then everything else will go to **** as soon as you look at your map, turn, talk or whatever.
· Lookout…you are probably not doing enough
· Get the radio right…if you don’t adequately it can really increase the workload
· Fly a height and stick to it (downdraughts excepted)
· Polished circuits (not’ that’ll do) leading to Stabilised Approaches, leading to good landings
· Fly by numbers/procedures not seat of pants (debatable I know for PPLs but essential for commercial training)
· Get used to controlled airspace, ATIS, ground/tower/approach frequency operation, complex fields etc
· Fly to a plan…don’t bumble around. Fly a height and a heading, use a stopwatch
All said and done, I found the CPL to be nothing that I hadn’t covered on my PPL (except multi training). So you can waste your time notching up the numbers or really prepare yourself for a first time pass. The secret? Correct technique and practice.
Do you know if you are using the correct technique?
<img src="eek.gif" border="0">
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aces low,
I'm interested, how come you flew a Duchess twin rather than a complex single during your CPL training?
I was under the impression that all CPL training is usually done on a PA28 and then a complex like an Arrow? A twin is then only used for the IRT. Is this not the case?
I'm interested, how come you flew a Duchess twin rather than a complex single during your CPL training?
I was under the impression that all CPL training is usually done on a PA28 and then a complex like an Arrow? A twin is then only used for the IRT. Is this not the case?
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If you do a combined multi/CPL you save money straight away, plus you then have 10 hours multi time before you start the IR. Helps get off to a flying start. A lot of schools couldn't be bothered getting a complex single for the few students doing a single engined CPL, so they can be reasonably competitive on the twin prices. For instance, I did my Multi CPL at Leeds FLying School at LBA. Instead of 15 hours single and 8 hours multi, I only did 11 on the single and got a competitive rate for multi-time for the remaining hours. I now have 16 hours multi time. The CPL test doesn't seem to be any harder for although you do single engine procedures (asymetric approach etc) you miss out forced landings. So swings and roundabouts.Most twins use an airswitch for recording times (i.e. what you are cahrged) but you log taxi time also...which is important at a busy field like Leeeds where they seem to dislike having GA aircraft on the runway or on approach. (Only kidding LBA ATCOs)
My advice would be to talk to a GOOD school and get their price for a multi CPL vs a single engined one.
My advice would be to talk to a GOOD school and get their price for a multi CPL vs a single engined one.
