Fraud & Scam
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Joined: Oct 2002
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From: europe
Fraud & Scam
found this on the web, I let Mr. Moderator to keep or to delete it.I am not responsible in any way of the content of this message but I think it would be interressant to know what s going on in this market.
I am not the author but many thanks to the person who has edited this text.
FRAUD and SCAMS !
Many companies will try to take money from desparate pilots, with little or no services in return. They know how desparate some pilots may be, and what reward the pilots are expecting or hoping for, in the shape of a well paid job.
In the more common, but less severe cases, a fee is taken for a service that doesn't lead to anything, i.e. a posting on a board where there is little or no chance of the CV to be seen.
In other cases (which are not really scams but I would call it not being honest up front about the conditions), a lengthy CV is entered by the applicant, and only in the end you find that after spending a long time gathering and entering information, credit card information is asked for before you can proceed any further, even though it says in the beginning you can submit it for free.
The worst cases are where a job is promised, and you "just" need to pay for your type rating before you can get the job. I have seen many examples of this. First time I heard of it was like this:
A pilot with a Danish CPL license and 400 hours total had taken a Canadian float check, and thereby he had a Canadian CPL as well. In hope of a job he put an ad in Flight International (GBP 50 I think for the smallest add). He was contacted and told he was wanted to fly a Canadian registered Hawker 800 out of Zurich, paid appartment, a nice tax free salary, free car and so on. He was supposed to fly for a rich Greek individual, but everything happended through a box address. The reason HE was chosen (this was in the beginning of the 90'es where jobs were still quite scarce) was that he happenend to have a Canadian License ! (this was to clear the doubt as to why they had chosen HIM with only 400 hours for a Hawker 800 F/O position when there were plenty of rated and current pilots available). He was invited to a sim check in London, with hotels, limos and the works. Of course he passed the check on the 737. (all this to ensure him that it was a serious company, so he would be ready to be hooked). After he went back, he was told he was accepted and just had to pay for his type rating, together with his employment contract. I don't remember how much, but it was in the order of GBP 10.000 to 15.000. One of his friends, also a pilot, came across the Hawker by chance, and talked to the crew. They were completely puzzled, they didn't need any pilots, and never heard of the rich Greek individual. So he bit the bait, but got off the hook before they took his money. Happy end !
The example above was back in the beginning of the 90'ies. This one is from april 2002:
Flexjet Europe which I worked was closed down, while outsourcing. Tough luck for me and my collegues ! Several adds have benn placed in Flight International by Flexjet, and one of the companies that responded was asking for a G-IV pilot. Pilots from Flexjet looking for a job had to take a better deal, so it was suited likewise by the scammer. This is what I received from my company (my comments in brackets [] ):
Just been contacted by a private company based in Rio de Janeiro [exotic, right ?] regarding 2 First Officer positions on a GIV. Type-rating preferred but not essential [meaning, come on suckers, take my bait !], they also prefer if you have an FAA licence, if not then a JAR licence is fine [= almost anything will do !].They prefer to have First Officers who are under 32 years old, but are flexible [= anyone will do !]. They pay for accommodation etc, and would consider pilots who had families [= pilots with or witout family, we will be equally happy to take your money ] etc. They employ on a 3 year contract and pay $6,200 per month (tax-free) [Ah, tax-free salary, especially for corporate pilots, really touch the emotional button hard. USD 6200 tax free for a GIV copilot ?]. They are a private company called Alpha Tankers Inc [= does not exist], and they operate as Alpha Aviation ltd.[= does not exist either] These are immediate vacancies [come on, suckers, we are ready to take your money NOW] so they want to move quickly. I haven't been able to find out information on them from the Web etc[= does not exist], so I can't give you any other information regarding them.
Too good to be true, right ? It IS too good to be true ! Some of our collegues contacted them, and finally found that the company wanted something like a USD 7150 payment for the type rating. If you want to pay a pilot USD 6200 tax free a month and all the benefits, it doesn't make sense to ask him for about a months payment ??? No one took the bait ...
What is their ways ? Basically in all these scams, they
1) Want to make sure they include a large group of pilots (ie. "prefer FAA, but JAA is fine", "would consider pilots with families" etc)
2) Sweet talk you with tax free salary, paid accomodation, nice aircraft, rich owners etc
3) Make you feel special and lucky, why YOU were chosen (ie, you flew for Flexjet, you have a Canadian License or anything else particular about YOU)
4) Hide, i.e. behind a mail box or hotmail
5) Often start of with spending money in you (airfare, hotel, limo, sim etc), before asking for a down payment, type rating fee or whatever they call it. "Funny" enough, they can't accept a bank guarantee, only a down payment bank transferral.
BE WARNED, DON'T FALL FOR THESE SCAMS !
In my eyes, the only acceptable means of paying for a employer/employee match is this:
1. In a no-cure-no-pay contract, the employER (not employee) pays the job agency/hunter an agreed fee. Or the employer finds his pilots without a job agency
2. IF a company should insist on wanting money from a pilot to find him a job, let them find the job first, THEN ask for the money. If soneone found me the right job, I would gladly pay a reasonable fee, after I have the job. I will not pay anything nor submit any credit card infomation until I have the job and can see it is real and no scam.
3. On certain conditions, paying for a type rating is OK, considering the cost you are incuring on the company, but the only acceptable way is with a contract and a paycheck deduction, where the pilot after a certain agreed period goes up to full salary, or full salary all the way, and a fee to be paid by the pilot if leaving early. I agree that it is the company that has to pay for the type rating. But there are pilots who get a type rating "for free" by a company and then go to another company the day after, and that is not reasonable towards the first company.
Homepage: http://loh.nu
I am not the author but many thanks to the person who has edited this text.
FRAUD and SCAMS !
Many companies will try to take money from desparate pilots, with little or no services in return. They know how desparate some pilots may be, and what reward the pilots are expecting or hoping for, in the shape of a well paid job.
In the more common, but less severe cases, a fee is taken for a service that doesn't lead to anything, i.e. a posting on a board where there is little or no chance of the CV to be seen.
In other cases (which are not really scams but I would call it not being honest up front about the conditions), a lengthy CV is entered by the applicant, and only in the end you find that after spending a long time gathering and entering information, credit card information is asked for before you can proceed any further, even though it says in the beginning you can submit it for free.
The worst cases are where a job is promised, and you "just" need to pay for your type rating before you can get the job. I have seen many examples of this. First time I heard of it was like this:
A pilot with a Danish CPL license and 400 hours total had taken a Canadian float check, and thereby he had a Canadian CPL as well. In hope of a job he put an ad in Flight International (GBP 50 I think for the smallest add). He was contacted and told he was wanted to fly a Canadian registered Hawker 800 out of Zurich, paid appartment, a nice tax free salary, free car and so on. He was supposed to fly for a rich Greek individual, but everything happended through a box address. The reason HE was chosen (this was in the beginning of the 90'es where jobs were still quite scarce) was that he happenend to have a Canadian License ! (this was to clear the doubt as to why they had chosen HIM with only 400 hours for a Hawker 800 F/O position when there were plenty of rated and current pilots available). He was invited to a sim check in London, with hotels, limos and the works. Of course he passed the check on the 737. (all this to ensure him that it was a serious company, so he would be ready to be hooked). After he went back, he was told he was accepted and just had to pay for his type rating, together with his employment contract. I don't remember how much, but it was in the order of GBP 10.000 to 15.000. One of his friends, also a pilot, came across the Hawker by chance, and talked to the crew. They were completely puzzled, they didn't need any pilots, and never heard of the rich Greek individual. So he bit the bait, but got off the hook before they took his money. Happy end !
The example above was back in the beginning of the 90'ies. This one is from april 2002:
Flexjet Europe which I worked was closed down, while outsourcing. Tough luck for me and my collegues ! Several adds have benn placed in Flight International by Flexjet, and one of the companies that responded was asking for a G-IV pilot. Pilots from Flexjet looking for a job had to take a better deal, so it was suited likewise by the scammer. This is what I received from my company (my comments in brackets [] ):
Just been contacted by a private company based in Rio de Janeiro [exotic, right ?] regarding 2 First Officer positions on a GIV. Type-rating preferred but not essential [meaning, come on suckers, take my bait !], they also prefer if you have an FAA licence, if not then a JAR licence is fine [= almost anything will do !].They prefer to have First Officers who are under 32 years old, but are flexible [= anyone will do !]. They pay for accommodation etc, and would consider pilots who had families [= pilots with or witout family, we will be equally happy to take your money ] etc. They employ on a 3 year contract and pay $6,200 per month (tax-free) [Ah, tax-free salary, especially for corporate pilots, really touch the emotional button hard. USD 6200 tax free for a GIV copilot ?]. They are a private company called Alpha Tankers Inc [= does not exist], and they operate as Alpha Aviation ltd.[= does not exist either] These are immediate vacancies [come on, suckers, we are ready to take your money NOW] so they want to move quickly. I haven't been able to find out information on them from the Web etc[= does not exist], so I can't give you any other information regarding them.
Too good to be true, right ? It IS too good to be true ! Some of our collegues contacted them, and finally found that the company wanted something like a USD 7150 payment for the type rating. If you want to pay a pilot USD 6200 tax free a month and all the benefits, it doesn't make sense to ask him for about a months payment ??? No one took the bait ...
What is their ways ? Basically in all these scams, they
1) Want to make sure they include a large group of pilots (ie. "prefer FAA, but JAA is fine", "would consider pilots with families" etc)
2) Sweet talk you with tax free salary, paid accomodation, nice aircraft, rich owners etc
3) Make you feel special and lucky, why YOU were chosen (ie, you flew for Flexjet, you have a Canadian License or anything else particular about YOU)
4) Hide, i.e. behind a mail box or hotmail
5) Often start of with spending money in you (airfare, hotel, limo, sim etc), before asking for a down payment, type rating fee or whatever they call it. "Funny" enough, they can't accept a bank guarantee, only a down payment bank transferral.
BE WARNED, DON'T FALL FOR THESE SCAMS !
In my eyes, the only acceptable means of paying for a employer/employee match is this:
1. In a no-cure-no-pay contract, the employER (not employee) pays the job agency/hunter an agreed fee. Or the employer finds his pilots without a job agency
2. IF a company should insist on wanting money from a pilot to find him a job, let them find the job first, THEN ask for the money. If soneone found me the right job, I would gladly pay a reasonable fee, after I have the job. I will not pay anything nor submit any credit card infomation until I have the job and can see it is real and no scam.
3. On certain conditions, paying for a type rating is OK, considering the cost you are incuring on the company, but the only acceptable way is with a contract and a paycheck deduction, where the pilot after a certain agreed period goes up to full salary, or full salary all the way, and a fee to be paid by the pilot if leaving early. I agree that it is the company that has to pay for the type rating. But there are pilots who get a type rating "for free" by a company and then go to another company the day after, and that is not reasonable towards the first company.
Homepage: http://loh.nu
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
From: UK
Paying for your own type rating is, as often discussed here, a minefield. There are many people who often try to utilise an under used aircraft by offering a type or even class rating on an aircraft with the posibility of a job at the end.
Whilst it is less servere than the out and out scamsters it is still an immoral way of doing business which prays on the inexperienced pilot who is so desperate that he/she may well pay a "discount" price for a eg. SET class rating in the belief that a job is likley at the end of it.
This has long been happening on the sheds and now is starting to occur on Single engine turbines as one operator in particular (Oxford based) has bought one and cant use it fully until the JAA give the go-ahead ( if they do).
Similar tactics they will phone you up offer you a job, e mail you some details and then draw you in.
Be very aware. My company operates differently. Your type rated at the companys expence. You recieve full F/O pay butIf you leave after 1 year you are required to repay half the cost and it is deemed fully paid after 2 years. This ensures that both F/O and the company are protected and all are happy.
DO NOT fall for these scams, it is just immoral operators feeding of unemployed pilots desperation.
Whilst it is less servere than the out and out scamsters it is still an immoral way of doing business which prays on the inexperienced pilot who is so desperate that he/she may well pay a "discount" price for a eg. SET class rating in the belief that a job is likley at the end of it.
This has long been happening on the sheds and now is starting to occur on Single engine turbines as one operator in particular (Oxford based) has bought one and cant use it fully until the JAA give the go-ahead ( if they do).
Similar tactics they will phone you up offer you a job, e mail you some details and then draw you in.
Be very aware. My company operates differently. Your type rated at the companys expence. You recieve full F/O pay butIf you leave after 1 year you are required to repay half the cost and it is deemed fully paid after 2 years. This ensures that both F/O and the company are protected and all are happy.
DO NOT fall for these scams, it is just immoral operators feeding of unemployed pilots desperation.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
From: The dark side of the moon
Gents. Thank you very much for your words of wisdom!
I'll be looking out for these signs in future!
And to those Scammers out there. Go earn a decent mans/womans wage
I feel better now! thanks again.
See, it sounds just as effective without the swearing which, even though covered with asterisks, is too strong.
I'll be looking out for these signs in future!
And to those Scammers out there. Go earn a decent mans/womans wage
I feel better now! thanks again.
See, it sounds just as effective without the swearing which, even though covered with asterisks, is too strong.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
From: Away
Thanks a lot faacfi, good info from your part.I hope you saved certain individuals some money with this post. By the way, there is a company called PSG from Europe offering F/O positions if one pays it`s own type raiting and training on a variety of bizjets.It`s very expensive, like $30K. Know something about them?
lostcomm
lostcomm
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
dear faa cfi, i have heard of other scams :
- undisclosed irish outfit charging 50£ for submitting cv, 300£ for sim check, 10K for type.
- 3K for a JAR MCC, an exotic rating unknown in any other place on earth excepted JAR airspace.
"Flying is hours and hours of boredom sprinkled with a few seconds of sheer terror. "
Gregory ''Pappy'' Boyington
- undisclosed irish outfit charging 50£ for submitting cv, 300£ for sim check, 10K for type.
- 3K for a JAR MCC, an exotic rating unknown in any other place on earth excepted JAR airspace.
"Flying is hours and hours of boredom sprinkled with a few seconds of sheer terror. "
Gregory ''Pappy'' Boyington
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 61
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From: europe
I have found an interesting article in the flight international 19-25 november."Advice for students".
Tony R. thank you very much for your article and thanks to flight international for publishing!
Tony R. thank you very much for your article and thanks to flight international for publishing!
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
From: UK
scam info
Obviously you did not read my post in June last year, French individual rang our busy flight school and wanted details of individuals wishing for employment on Gulfstream 4 in finland, type check their also, 3 of our bods sent info and all sounded very, very legit, company did exist on paper, even sending bizjet to collect them, only catch was the £3000 up front required for sim ride (737) and supposed type rating, needless to say money was payed and on arrival abroad said individual was missing and money removed from account, - be warned, these people are the scum of the earth and prey on individuals who believe what they want to hear! After police investigation the criminal involved was known to have numerous passports. The cost to him? 4 faxes and a couple of phone calls to net £9000. Be warned.
