Some help please with IR / IMC / CPL/IR
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 17
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From: Epsom, Surrey, UK
Some help please with IR / IMC / CPL/IR
Can anyone kindly put me out of my misery by explaining something to me please?
Upon completion of my PPL(A) (by next year), I want to progress to CPL/ATPL level, but am having difficulty understanding what contributions various ratings have to one another - especially the Instrument Ratings.
If I take my IMC, does this contribute any hours/effort towards the full Intrument Rating? And does the full-blown IR count towards my CPL/IR?
Finally, I understand some Flight Simulator time may contribute towards my PPL(A) - is this true, and if so - how much time? Is there a particular "class" of simulator that is required to be counted?
Sorry to bombard with so many questions - but any advice (in plain terms please) would be very much appreciated.
Upon completion of my PPL(A) (by next year), I want to progress to CPL/ATPL level, but am having difficulty understanding what contributions various ratings have to one another - especially the Instrument Ratings.
If I take my IMC, does this contribute any hours/effort towards the full Intrument Rating? And does the full-blown IR count towards my CPL/IR?
Finally, I understand some Flight Simulator time may contribute towards my PPL(A) - is this true, and if so - how much time? Is there a particular "class" of simulator that is required to be counted?
Sorry to bombard with so many questions - but any advice (in plain terms please) would be very much appreciated.
Why do it if it's not fun?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 12
From: Bournemouth
Cinman,
I can recommend a book by Clive Hughes - I can't remember the title, but it's something like "Becoming a pilot". This will answer all your questions about getting an ATPL(f). There is also a publication called LASORS available from the CAA, which is supposed to be excellent, although I haven't got my hands on a copy yet.
To answer your questions:
No. It used to under CAA rules, but it doesn't any more under JAA rules - this change of rules is a possible source of confusion. However, although it doesn't actually count for anything, I'd imagine that having an IMC rating and some time in IMC would make the IR (which is, apparently, one of the hardest ratings you'll ever do) much easier.
The IR is an essential part of the CPL/IR. The CPL/IR (aka ATPL(f) in the UK) basically consists of a PPL, ATPL exams, CPL and IR - usually in that order, although you can do the IR before the CPL.
Not true. Flight sim time on approved simulators can count towards an IR, and I think towards an IMC too but I'm not certain. But not a PPL.
FFF
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I can recommend a book by Clive Hughes - I can't remember the title, but it's something like "Becoming a pilot". This will answer all your questions about getting an ATPL(f). There is also a publication called LASORS available from the CAA, which is supposed to be excellent, although I haven't got my hands on a copy yet.
To answer your questions:
If I take my IMC, does this contribute any hours/effort towards the full Intrument Rating?
And does the full-blown IR count towards my CPL/IR?
Finally, I understand some Flight Simulator time may contribute towards my PPL(A)
FFF
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Worcestershire
Clive Hughes' book is called "The Guide to Getting a Commercial Pilot Licence". Mine's a couple of years old (and therefore probably out of date!) but it is a mine of information if you're looking to go the whole way with the ATPL. It hasn't got an ISBN, so Amazon et al won't be of any use, but you can either get it direct (look in the back of Flyer) or from Transair.
A quick peruse would suggest that an IMC doesn't count towards a multi-IR, but there is (or at least was) a twist. If you go to the States and do the FAA single IR, which costs about the same, it will convert direct to the CAA IMC, and exempt you from some of the multi-IR. Which will hopefully save some cash.
I'm sure someone will now come along and tell me I've been talking rubbish again.
A quick peruse would suggest that an IMC doesn't count towards a multi-IR, but there is (or at least was) a twist. If you go to the States and do the FAA single IR, which costs about the same, it will convert direct to the CAA IMC, and exempt you from some of the multi-IR. Which will hopefully save some cash.
I'm sure someone will now come along and tell me I've been talking rubbish again.
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 110
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From: UK
My turn to talk rubbish and get shot down in flames.......
If you go to a UK based JAA approved flight school and do instrument training, and after about 15 hours flying it just so happens that you have fullfilled all the requirements for the CAA IMC rating course, so you do the skills test and add the IMC rating to your license. Then you take a break for about a year while you do something else, like a distance learing course for the ATPL exams followed by CPL course, and then decide to continue the IR course, surely the 15 hours instrument training you did in the first place will still count as hours towards the JAA IR?
Fire away....
D
If you go to a UK based JAA approved flight school and do instrument training, and after about 15 hours flying it just so happens that you have fullfilled all the requirements for the CAA IMC rating course, so you do the skills test and add the IMC rating to your license. Then you take a break for about a year while you do something else, like a distance learing course for the ATPL exams followed by CPL course, and then decide to continue the IR course, surely the 15 hours instrument training you did in the first place will still count as hours towards the JAA IR?
Fire away....
D
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,729
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From: 75N 16E
...or if you go to the USA and do an FAA IR (40 hrs), you come back to the UK, the CAA give you an IMC rating, and you only have to do 15hrs conversion for the JAA IR [or until you're ready]. Saves a fair wack, especially with some FTO's charging 400 GBP/hr for Multi IR training in something like a Seneca.
Charges in the US are likely to be $100 / hr for IR training in a single (inc. instructor).
Check your requirements though, you need 50 hrs of PIC cross country time before you take the skills test, and the FAA definition of X/C is > 50nm.
Rgds
EA
Charges in the US are likely to be $100 / hr for IR training in a single (inc. instructor).
Check your requirements though, you need 50 hrs of PIC cross country time before you take the skills test, and the FAA definition of X/C is > 50nm.
Rgds
EA
