Modular/Integrated ATPL an airlines view ?
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Modular/Integrated ATPL an airlines view ?
Modular vs Integrated ATPL is a common theme in a number of threads, so I thought I'd expose it as a seperate topic. I am thinking about committing to spend 12 months dedicated to a modular course - an I am very interested to know if there is a real hiring issue here.
If so will the fact that I did it full time count for anything ?
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If so will the fact that I did it full time count for anything ?
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There is quite a lot of luck involved in landing that first airline job and it is argued over and over again that a certain school or a certain route will inch you closer to that sim check, but I honestly think a lot more of it rests on determination and the kind of person you are: who you are, what you do and how you did it!
Some FACTS to definitely remember though are:
British Airways has taken on self-sponsored candidates directly from Oxford in the past. I think the tally is at nine so far and is set to rise. For info on this you need to see the lecture notes by a BA Captain (I shall withold his name just for privacy) which are displayed on www.oxfordaviation.net after he gave a talk about BA's recruitment of Self-sponsored chaps and chapesses.
BAs candidates are, however, always Integrated ones. As is the case at BAe (see other thread with post from Wee Weasley Welshman) Integrated courses are the obvious choice for airlines and if someone new is to be taken to join the airline, the bosses will look for someone with as similar training to the sponsored cadets as possible. Wherever possible, cadets on EXACTLY the same course (start date etc) will be considered first, as these are as close to the sponsored guys as you get. I am not saying that sponsored/non-sponsored are better/worse or anything else (don't get me wrong) but continuity is key.
If you don't care about that tiny chance of getting snapped up whilst at a college then I think you'll find that honestly, it doesn't matter what you do or where you do it. What makes aviation so fascinating is that pilots within the same airline/company all come from totally different backgrounds with all different stories to tell.
Look back through the wannabes pages and you will find this topic heavily debated!
GOOD LUCK!
SB 2946
Some FACTS to definitely remember though are:
British Airways has taken on self-sponsored candidates directly from Oxford in the past. I think the tally is at nine so far and is set to rise. For info on this you need to see the lecture notes by a BA Captain (I shall withold his name just for privacy) which are displayed on www.oxfordaviation.net after he gave a talk about BA's recruitment of Self-sponsored chaps and chapesses.
BAs candidates are, however, always Integrated ones. As is the case at BAe (see other thread with post from Wee Weasley Welshman) Integrated courses are the obvious choice for airlines and if someone new is to be taken to join the airline, the bosses will look for someone with as similar training to the sponsored cadets as possible. Wherever possible, cadets on EXACTLY the same course (start date etc) will be considered first, as these are as close to the sponsored guys as you get. I am not saying that sponsored/non-sponsored are better/worse or anything else (don't get me wrong) but continuity is key.
If you don't care about that tiny chance of getting snapped up whilst at a college then I think you'll find that honestly, it doesn't matter what you do or where you do it. What makes aviation so fascinating is that pilots within the same airline/company all come from totally different backgrounds with all different stories to tell.
Look back through the wannabes pages and you will find this topic heavily debated!
GOOD LUCK!
SB 2946
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Speedbird, I think you have hit the nail on the head with this one! From what I hear you're exactly right!
Unfortunately, I have not done my training at Oxford, but I will finish shortly via the modular route (early April) and will then be on the pile waiting for a sim ride.
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Duff, Duff, that Wonderful stuff. Ummmmm Doughnuts
Unfortunately, I have not done my training at Oxford, but I will finish shortly via the modular route (early April) and will then be on the pile waiting for a sim ride.
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Duff, Duff, that Wonderful stuff. Ummmmm Doughnuts
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I still think that there is another valid point of view about this. I see the benefits of Integrated training which is "continuity". On the other hand I believe that it is possible to achieve a better quality deep learning via de modular route. There is more time to learn and digest the material and in my opinion people are not only preparing for a pass. I am not saying that integrated is just a preparation for the exams but there is less work from the individual. Is a bit like comparing a full time taught course and doing the exact same course by research (ex: an MSc).
Anyway, just another thaught!
TheNavigator
Anyway, just another thaught!
TheNavigator
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Pilch -
Have you found this yet?... http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/For...ML/006001.html
...if not it might be worth a read, I found it quite interesting.
Speedbird 2946 -
I totally agree with you!
Have you found this yet?... http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/For...ML/006001.html
...if not it might be worth a read, I found it quite interesting.
Speedbird 2946 -
I totally agree with you!
Guest
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Top thread everbody - all good stuff. I will just add a little bit of my own which was an answer to the old Integrated Vs Modular question I aimed at a GO recruitment pilot very recently at a seminar.
The reply was that if you considered two identical people of equal hours, one integrated and one modular, there would be no difference as to who was preferred.
This was qualified by the modular course having to have been completed at a well known flying school to this particular airline, rather than scratching around with the minnows. Now I know many people here will disagree with this, but it is not necessarily my point of view, I am merely repeating directly what was said to me.
I am also not trying to say that this is representative of "many" airlines, only that it is the current position of GO, according to this pilot.
Other things I discovered were that higher hour pilots (<1000) were not necessarily guaranteed a job over 250 hour pilots, as it really came down to the suitability of the person more than anything else.
So I would suggest anybody embarking on this wonderful career has a damned good think about this first, because simply turning up with 1000 hours and even a 737 rating(!) would not guarantee them a job over a 200/250 hourer so I was told.
Really folks it is prudent to think very hard what you are likely to achieve by barrelling into a course for £35-55k, as that is a major investment. A major investment needs careful planning, and whilst you may be very happy with saving £5k over your course duration, if you sit on your backside for 2 years as a result, you really have shot yourself in the foot.
It is far better to consider all options from the outset. Personally I will not be convinced by one person alone, but the more times I hear the same message, the more likely I will be to heed the advice. At the end of the day having the correct profile is going to greatly assist your chances of getting that first job, but nothing will guarantee it other than sponsorship (virtually).
P.s. Speedy - how is it going these days?
TGG
The reply was that if you considered two identical people of equal hours, one integrated and one modular, there would be no difference as to who was preferred.
This was qualified by the modular course having to have been completed at a well known flying school to this particular airline, rather than scratching around with the minnows. Now I know many people here will disagree with this, but it is not necessarily my point of view, I am merely repeating directly what was said to me.
I am also not trying to say that this is representative of "many" airlines, only that it is the current position of GO, according to this pilot.
Other things I discovered were that higher hour pilots (<1000) were not necessarily guaranteed a job over 250 hour pilots, as it really came down to the suitability of the person more than anything else.
So I would suggest anybody embarking on this wonderful career has a damned good think about this first, because simply turning up with 1000 hours and even a 737 rating(!) would not guarantee them a job over a 200/250 hourer so I was told.
Really folks it is prudent to think very hard what you are likely to achieve by barrelling into a course for £35-55k, as that is a major investment. A major investment needs careful planning, and whilst you may be very happy with saving £5k over your course duration, if you sit on your backside for 2 years as a result, you really have shot yourself in the foot.
It is far better to consider all options from the outset. Personally I will not be convinced by one person alone, but the more times I hear the same message, the more likely I will be to heed the advice. At the end of the day having the correct profile is going to greatly assist your chances of getting that first job, but nothing will guarantee it other than sponsorship (virtually).
P.s. Speedy - how is it going these days?
TGG
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Greener,
Hi! Long time no see... Well things are looking good for me at the moment. I'm working really hard to pay for a holiday before I start at Oxford. Are you starting on the modular route? If so I'd be interested to here what you've decided.. I have two friends going modular and I'd really appreciate knowing a bit more about individual schools etc! Drop me an e-mail!
Good to hear from you,
SB
Hi! Long time no see... Well things are looking good for me at the moment. I'm working really hard to pay for a holiday before I start at Oxford. Are you starting on the modular route? If so I'd be interested to here what you've decided.. I have two friends going modular and I'd really appreciate knowing a bit more about individual schools etc! Drop me an e-mail!
Good to hear from you,
SB
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Right time, right place, right people you know, be lucky, qualified, and want it sooo badly that.... , well you'll get there in the end, regardless of the route,(know of three, all in their thirties all modular/self improvers, and one a lovely girly who desevered it much sooner, and all in 737's). And that's all their is to it!!!!!
Keep the faith, it does happen (me next PLEASE)
Keep the faith, it does happen (me next PLEASE)
