Weird job/training offer
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Italy
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Weird job/training offer
Hello, . .I'm a CPL with just 500h, and like many other inexperienced pilots I'm just discovering how hard it is, to find a job in any airline company. I'm now going to tell you an interesting story, and I do apologise in advance since it's going to be a long one. In the website <a href="http://www.syz.com/avcanada/viewjobs.html#pilot" target="_blank">http://www.syz.com/avcanada/viewjobs.html#pilot</a> I happen to find the most interesting post ever seen: . .Web address: <a href="http://www.asg-jet.com" target="_blank">http://www.asg-jet.com</a> . .Email address: [email protected]. . Job Description: Company is a part 135 jet charter operation in the US. Operating Lear Jet's 24,25,35 and HS125 throughout the US, Canada, Mexico and Latin America flying with passengers, cargo and air-ambulance. As travelling by many people with an Airline is slowing down and people have to travel we see a large increase of flights with passengers. As all aircraft fly much more as we were used to, we will need for some aircraft an extra crew and also new crew for additional aircraft on the certificate. We have openings for first officers in our Lear Jet fleet, pilots however have to pay for their training. After completion of an agreed number of hours pilots can continue to fly till they have a job in the airline industry or meet qualifications for upgrade to captain in the company. These positions are available for pilots throughout the world, conversion of licenses is optional. Response only through our website <a href="http://www.asg-jet.com" target="_blank">http://www.asg-jet.com</a> on the page contact will be accepted.
After reading this marvellous proposal, I said to myself.. man, this is a bargain! And I started to write them. . .The following, are the messages we have exchanged so far:
ME: . .Hello, I own a current FAA commercial licence,500h. I'm now living in Canada but I'm willing to move anywhere in the US and Canada to start the training you are offering. Before even knowing what the training consists of, I need to know one important thing: where is the training facilities located exactly? I've already visited your web site <a href="http://www.asg-jet.com" target="_blank">www.asg-jet.com</a> and it doesn't specify the location within the US, it just gives an address in The Netherlands. Thank you in advance,
HIM:. . About your question. Main office is in St.Louis and we operate with 35 jet aircraft from 16 different bases in the US. regards ME: Dear Otto, Thank you for your quick reply. I would also like to know the email address of the St.Louis office. Is it located in the St. Louis airport? "we operate with 35 jet aircraft from 16 different bases in the US" Could you explain this sentence to me please? HIM: So far you responded and my question is is this just for curiosity? If not why did you not fill in the application form as requested in our add ? It looks that you think you deal with a school or a training facility. Well we are not a training option for pilots or students but a regular part 135 jet charter company. So I suggest go to the website and meet our requirement by filling out the form as requested and besides this question I need much more information in order to be able to give you the correct answers and information about the options. you can find it at <a href="http://www.asg-jet.com" target="_blank">http://www.asg-jet.com</a> on the page contact. . .regards Otto
<<< but yet, no email I asked for...>>>
ME: . .Dear Otto, (pasting and copying his sentences)
> Sofar you responded and my question is is this >just for curiosity? If not why did you not fill >in the application form as requested in our add Ok I've just fill in the application form in your web site . .> It looks that you think you deal with a school >or a training facility. . .I'm not thinking anything, I am just asking simple normal questions. . .> Well we are not a training option for pilots or >students but a regular part 135 jet charter >company. . .I'm sorry for being straightforward, but, so what? Is this a reason to believe everything I am told without asking further questions? . .> Just for your information we receive between >400 and 600 applications a month and if all >pilots ask questions to me and ask them again >to the people in St.Louis they just keep us >occupied. . .Sorry again for being straightforward but the fact that you won't let me talk directly to the facility raises red flags. My guess could be that you doen't want me to talk directly to the facility because I could find out that there is no need for your services whatsoever. It sounds like a scam where someone agrees to provide you with "secret inside information", but later you find out the information is publically available at no cost. . .> So I suggest go to the website and meet our >requirement by filling out the form as >requested and besides this question I need much >more information in order to be able to give you >the correct answers and information about the >options. . .Already done it. Please don't take my words as a sign of disrespect, I'm just being suspicious after a few bad episodes. Regards,
HIM: . .Of course you should be careful. Information is always available at no cost. I am not giving you any service as you suggest . However you will find out it is no scam as you suggest it is. Being suspicious is not wrong at all but I think the bad episodes you had are probably not only the fault from someone else. <<<is he crazy??>> In the attachment you will find more details. You also can call our office and if you do please ask for Tony. The number is (1) 636 519 9303. At least you know now the company is there, we are in business for over 20 years. Also for your information I will not consider your enrolment for the time being. The information provided is only to show you that using the words : It sounds like scam " should not be used by any pilot at least not by someone with your age and practical no experience. If you will apply for a position in the future take my advise don't do this again as it will not work for sure. Don't make your own rules and regulations if or when a company is asking to apply in a certain way. best regards Otto
ME: . .> Don't make your own rules and regulations if or >when a company is asking to apply in a certain >way.. . I didn't make my own rules, I just asked simple questions, there's no need to get sulky. It's my right to get as much information as possible when it comes to such an important topic as my future. I have been straightforward with you, and I apologise if my words sounded a bit rude, it was just my way of being clear with you. I read the attachment to the email that you sent me and it made sense. . .>Also for your information I will not consider >your enrolment for the time being. . .Fine. So, let's suppose that you do consider my enrolment: what are the next steps to begin the first officer training?
---------- this says it all, I smell a rat.. .And I'm still waiting for his reply. I hope that this testimony will be helpful for someone.
After reading this marvellous proposal, I said to myself.. man, this is a bargain! And I started to write them. . .The following, are the messages we have exchanged so far:
ME: . .Hello, I own a current FAA commercial licence,500h. I'm now living in Canada but I'm willing to move anywhere in the US and Canada to start the training you are offering. Before even knowing what the training consists of, I need to know one important thing: where is the training facilities located exactly? I've already visited your web site <a href="http://www.asg-jet.com" target="_blank">www.asg-jet.com</a> and it doesn't specify the location within the US, it just gives an address in The Netherlands. Thank you in advance,
HIM:. . About your question. Main office is in St.Louis and we operate with 35 jet aircraft from 16 different bases in the US. regards ME: Dear Otto, Thank you for your quick reply. I would also like to know the email address of the St.Louis office. Is it located in the St. Louis airport? "we operate with 35 jet aircraft from 16 different bases in the US" Could you explain this sentence to me please? HIM: So far you responded and my question is is this just for curiosity? If not why did you not fill in the application form as requested in our add ? It looks that you think you deal with a school or a training facility. Well we are not a training option for pilots or students but a regular part 135 jet charter company. So I suggest go to the website and meet our requirement by filling out the form as requested and besides this question I need much more information in order to be able to give you the correct answers and information about the options. you can find it at <a href="http://www.asg-jet.com" target="_blank">http://www.asg-jet.com</a> on the page contact. . .regards Otto
<<< but yet, no email I asked for...>>>
ME: . .Dear Otto, (pasting and copying his sentences)
> Sofar you responded and my question is is this >just for curiosity? If not why did you not fill >in the application form as requested in our add Ok I've just fill in the application form in your web site . .> It looks that you think you deal with a school >or a training facility. . .I'm not thinking anything, I am just asking simple normal questions. . .> Well we are not a training option for pilots or >students but a regular part 135 jet charter >company. . .I'm sorry for being straightforward, but, so what? Is this a reason to believe everything I am told without asking further questions? . .> Just for your information we receive between >400 and 600 applications a month and if all >pilots ask questions to me and ask them again >to the people in St.Louis they just keep us >occupied. . .Sorry again for being straightforward but the fact that you won't let me talk directly to the facility raises red flags. My guess could be that you doen't want me to talk directly to the facility because I could find out that there is no need for your services whatsoever. It sounds like a scam where someone agrees to provide you with "secret inside information", but later you find out the information is publically available at no cost. . .> So I suggest go to the website and meet our >requirement by filling out the form as >requested and besides this question I need much >more information in order to be able to give you >the correct answers and information about the >options. . .Already done it. Please don't take my words as a sign of disrespect, I'm just being suspicious after a few bad episodes. Regards,
HIM: . .Of course you should be careful. Information is always available at no cost. I am not giving you any service as you suggest . However you will find out it is no scam as you suggest it is. Being suspicious is not wrong at all but I think the bad episodes you had are probably not only the fault from someone else. <<<is he crazy??>> In the attachment you will find more details. You also can call our office and if you do please ask for Tony. The number is (1) 636 519 9303. At least you know now the company is there, we are in business for over 20 years. Also for your information I will not consider your enrolment for the time being. The information provided is only to show you that using the words : It sounds like scam " should not be used by any pilot at least not by someone with your age and practical no experience. If you will apply for a position in the future take my advise don't do this again as it will not work for sure. Don't make your own rules and regulations if or when a company is asking to apply in a certain way. best regards Otto
ME: . .> Don't make your own rules and regulations if or >when a company is asking to apply in a certain >way.. . I didn't make my own rules, I just asked simple questions, there's no need to get sulky. It's my right to get as much information as possible when it comes to such an important topic as my future. I have been straightforward with you, and I apologise if my words sounded a bit rude, it was just my way of being clear with you. I read the attachment to the email that you sent me and it made sense. . .>Also for your information I will not consider >your enrolment for the time being. . .Fine. So, let's suppose that you do consider my enrolment: what are the next steps to begin the first officer training?
---------- this says it all, I smell a rat.. .And I'm still waiting for his reply. I hope that this testimony will be helpful for someone.
Why do it if it's not fun?
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Swedish,
From other peoples' replies, it sounds ilke you were right to be cautious, and have possibly had a lucky escape from these guys.
Can I make a comment though? First of all, I do not work in the aviation industry, I'm a wannabe. But I was responsible for reveiwing CVs, interviewing and recruiting in my previous job, so I think my comments are valid.
Reading through the e-mails you sent this guy, I can totally understand all of your sentiments. However, if this outfit had turned out to be genuine, and if it was me reading your e-mails, I'd have been reluctant to invite you in for interview because of the confrontational tone of your e-mails.
Don't get me wrong here. I know that his e-mails were just as, if not more, confrontational than yours. I know that all you're trying to do is get some answers to perfectly reasonable questions. And as I said, I can understand why your e-mails have the tone that they do. But I'd like to suggest that if you're unfortunate enough to find yourself in a similar situation again, you should do two things:
1) Find a good friend (the kind of friend who doesn't mind you phoning him up and bitching to him for 1/2 hour!), phone him up, and bitch to him for 1/2 hour!
2) Once you've spoken to someone to get your complaints off your chest, write an e-mail. Make absolutely certain that there's not a chance of it being viewed as confrontational. For example, instead of "I'm sorry for being straightforward, but, so what?", you could try "Thanks for clarifying that you are a regular part 135 jet charter company. However, I'm not sure that this answers my question 100% - I'm particularly interested in knowing the address of the school you use for training" - you get the idea! If you're not sure that you can do this completely impartially, find a friend (maybe the same friend as before!) to read over your e-mail before you send it.
It seems that, in this case, you lost nothing. But I'd hate to see you lose a chance at a bona fide job because of a genuine misunderstanding.
Good luck!
FFF. .--------
From other peoples' replies, it sounds ilke you were right to be cautious, and have possibly had a lucky escape from these guys.
Can I make a comment though? First of all, I do not work in the aviation industry, I'm a wannabe. But I was responsible for reveiwing CVs, interviewing and recruiting in my previous job, so I think my comments are valid.
Reading through the e-mails you sent this guy, I can totally understand all of your sentiments. However, if this outfit had turned out to be genuine, and if it was me reading your e-mails, I'd have been reluctant to invite you in for interview because of the confrontational tone of your e-mails.
Don't get me wrong here. I know that his e-mails were just as, if not more, confrontational than yours. I know that all you're trying to do is get some answers to perfectly reasonable questions. And as I said, I can understand why your e-mails have the tone that they do. But I'd like to suggest that if you're unfortunate enough to find yourself in a similar situation again, you should do two things:
1) Find a good friend (the kind of friend who doesn't mind you phoning him up and bitching to him for 1/2 hour!), phone him up, and bitch to him for 1/2 hour!
2) Once you've spoken to someone to get your complaints off your chest, write an e-mail. Make absolutely certain that there's not a chance of it being viewed as confrontational. For example, instead of "I'm sorry for being straightforward, but, so what?", you could try "Thanks for clarifying that you are a regular part 135 jet charter company. However, I'm not sure that this answers my question 100% - I'm particularly interested in knowing the address of the school you use for training" - you get the idea! If you're not sure that you can do this completely impartially, find a friend (maybe the same friend as before!) to read over your e-mail before you send it.
It seems that, in this case, you lost nothing. But I'd hate to see you lose a chance at a bona fide job because of a genuine misunderstanding.
Good luck!
FFF. .--------
