No Way UK
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2002
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From: DXB
No Way UK
Very inexperienced in this field but here goes:
Apart from having a family that you cannot relocate, why would anyone do their aptl in the UK?
All answers well received (excpet cr@ppy sarcasm?
Apart from having a family that you cannot relocate, why would anyone do their aptl in the UK?
All answers well received (excpet cr@ppy sarcasm?
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Joined: Feb 1997
Posts: 4,910
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From: Duit On Mon Dei
Believe it or not, UK has a much better opportunity to get onto decent equipment.
Oz, there's "only" QF, Virgin Blue or maybe NJS for jets. There are a few turboprop operators but the scene is still pretty shaky after the Ansett collapse.
USA, I believe if you are a white anglo saxon male then you need thousands of hours + a college degree for the majors. The regionals don't really pay enough to survive unless you have another job. (FO positions especially).
Hey, what's wrong with the glorious UK weather?
Oz, there's "only" QF, Virgin Blue or maybe NJS for jets. There are a few turboprop operators but the scene is still pretty shaky after the Ansett collapse.
USA, I believe if you are a white anglo saxon male then you need thousands of hours + a college degree for the majors. The regionals don't really pay enough to survive unless you have another job. (FO positions especially).
Hey, what's wrong with the glorious UK weather?
Was that....
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Joined: Feb 1997
Posts: 4,910
Likes: 184
From: Duit On Mon Dei
A white anglo saxon male is not deemed to be a "minority" when it comes to the field of aviation in the USA. Therefore, rightly or wrongly the level playing field is altered. Unfortunately, this means that for the so called majority, the minimums required for the majors are a lot higher.
"White anglo saxon" simply denotes the ancestry.
"White anglo saxon" simply denotes the ancestry.
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 575
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From: Alba sor
Johnny, merely pointing out that your posting was factually incorrect. Any licensed pilot with an existing type on their licence can do intial type training in the states, being a US citizen is irrelevant.
Also, trainee pilots cannot hold any type rating.
Many people read these forums, its up to every poster to try and get things correct.
Also, trainee pilots cannot hold any type rating.
Many people read these forums, its up to every poster to try and get things correct.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 84
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From: LHR
Point taken , however I am assuming that the original post suggested someone considering training , not already licensed & type rated .
I feel that it is now more difficult to fly in the U.S. than it used to be . I am currently seeking employment there as a non-immigrant resident but am subject to a thorough background check which must be instigated by an employer or training provider . Hence , I am less attractive to a potential employer than a citizen which makes it relevant , at least to me .
I am also aware that a trainee cannot be type-rated . I was inferring that a non- U.S. Citizen ATPL student is unlikely to meet the current criteria for type training in the U.S.A.
I feel that it is now more difficult to fly in the U.S. than it used to be . I am currently seeking employment there as a non-immigrant resident but am subject to a thorough background check which must be instigated by an employer or training provider . Hence , I am less attractive to a potential employer than a citizen which makes it relevant , at least to me .
I am also aware that a trainee cannot be type-rated . I was inferring that a non- U.S. Citizen ATPL student is unlikely to meet the current criteria for type training in the U.S.A.
Last edited by Johnny 7; 5th November 2002 at 18:59.
Jet Blast Rat
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Sarfend-on-Sea
Elvis
The best answer would be that you need the licence for the job. Therefore either achieve it here or go elsewhere then convert, unless elsewhere is in JAA - but last I heard the only English-speaking JAA school I know of outside the UK now only offers integrated courses (see other threads - I shan't open that can of worms here). If you convert then the cost ends up similar, the timescale much greater - losing on the swing your roundabout gains.
A common option is to do part - PPL and/or hour building in the US, Canada or the RSA, then the approved courses in the UK. However it can take a while to get aclimatised (or re-aclimatised) to British operations, often extending the CPL course (which many find quite tight anyway at 25 hours) and costs there take back some of the gain. If you can find a good block-booking deal in the UK you may end up gaining little but a tan from going to Florida, and American beer is a lot to put up with for small savings!
I do however recommend you look seriously at the part UK/part overseas option - it is a good compromise for some people.
The best answer would be that you need the licence for the job. Therefore either achieve it here or go elsewhere then convert, unless elsewhere is in JAA - but last I heard the only English-speaking JAA school I know of outside the UK now only offers integrated courses (see other threads - I shan't open that can of worms here). If you convert then the cost ends up similar, the timescale much greater - losing on the swing your roundabout gains.
A common option is to do part - PPL and/or hour building in the US, Canada or the RSA, then the approved courses in the UK. However it can take a while to get aclimatised (or re-aclimatised) to British operations, often extending the CPL course (which many find quite tight anyway at 25 hours) and costs there take back some of the gain. If you can find a good block-booking deal in the UK you may end up gaining little but a tan from going to Florida, and American beer is a lot to put up with for small savings!
I do however recommend you look seriously at the part UK/part overseas option - it is a good compromise for some people.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 655
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From: Europe
Ditto
Take all of the above, then DITTO to the rest of the JAA states. I personaly did my JAA ATPL in Holland. Yes>>> in English! The cost was at most, around a third of the UK price. Not only that: I now fly for a UK based company in G registered aircraft, and do all of my medicals and LPC/OPC's at the mercy of the NLA.
Regardless of what the lads shout out; a JAA licence is a JAA licence! It's a simple weeding out process that costs a lot less outside of the UK, and is NOT administered by God's Self Appointed (UK!) Authority of Aviation Safety and Wallet Openers!
Regardless of what the lads shout out; a JAA licence is a JAA licence! It's a simple weeding out process that costs a lot less outside of the UK, and is NOT administered by God's Self Appointed (UK!) Authority of Aviation Safety and Wallet Openers!
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: mallorca
Elvis21
U.K. as opposed to where? I am a spsnish national living in Spain but I decided to go to the U.K for the ground school and the flying at JAA/CAA schools in USA. The only reason I did this was because I could go the modular route which suited me better.You can train in english in quite a few JAA countries. Holland has been mentioned and Spain has four or five english ATPL courses under way at various schools. You will have to do the integrated courses though, which can take up to two years. If I could start again from scratch I would do it all here at home because I havent saved any time at all due to ground schools going bust and time saving was the idea. Also the UK route is expensive to say the least.
Good luck where ever you decide on.
U.K. as opposed to where? I am a spsnish national living in Spain but I decided to go to the U.K for the ground school and the flying at JAA/CAA schools in USA. The only reason I did this was because I could go the modular route which suited me better.You can train in english in quite a few JAA countries. Holland has been mentioned and Spain has four or five english ATPL courses under way at various schools. You will have to do the integrated courses though, which can take up to two years. If I could start again from scratch I would do it all here at home because I havent saved any time at all due to ground schools going bust and time saving was the idea. Also the UK route is expensive to say the least.
Good luck where ever you decide on.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 77
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From: USA
Agree, the CAA fees are a total rip off. Not true that the UK has the only modular courses, although perhaps other programs are not offering the same quality products as Bristol and Oxford are.
I have been looking around for the cheapest way to convert my FAA ATP into a JAA ATPL and it seems that the UK route is the best way to go. Spain, for istance, requires to attend a residential course...too long and expensive.
If anyone knows of other places where one can convert a license at a cheaper cost, please post it here.
Cheers.
I have been looking around for the cheapest way to convert my FAA ATP into a JAA ATPL and it seems that the UK route is the best way to go. Spain, for istance, requires to attend a residential course...too long and expensive.
If anyone knows of other places where one can convert a license at a cheaper cost, please post it here.
Cheers.
