Getting from frozen ATPL to THAT airline job!
Guest
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Getting from frozen ATPL to THAT airline job!
Hi all,
there's a lot of talk going on at the moment about getting your first job with that crispy frozen ATPL in your paw, and the associated difficulties etc.
I think there's a bit of a gap in the info here, and hopefully some of you more experienced guys can help fill it up so us wannabes can keep optomistic!!
The main questions I have are:
Newly qualified pilot leaves Flight Training with a frozen ATPL and 240 hours (correct?). How does he get to the 1000-1500 hour stage to validate the license?
Basically, if most of us want to end up flying big kit to far places, that being the goal and all, what do we need to do to get from 240 hours to 1000 hours?! Short of buying blocks of hours in Arizona or some place!
What are the options for hour building? Air taxi? DHL? ChanEx?
If you then go to an airline with a logbook containing 1200 hours, for example, do they require part of that to have been on singles, twins, turboprops, MCC experience etc?
As far as I can make out there are two stages to "getting there" after flight school:
1. Validating the license.
2. Getting an airline job.
I'd love to hear from guys (and gals!) who've been through it, so I, and whoever else needs this info, can get an accurate take on what the realities are going to be further down the line.
All replies greatly appreciated!!
WD.
there's a lot of talk going on at the moment about getting your first job with that crispy frozen ATPL in your paw, and the associated difficulties etc.
I think there's a bit of a gap in the info here, and hopefully some of you more experienced guys can help fill it up so us wannabes can keep optomistic!!
The main questions I have are:
Newly qualified pilot leaves Flight Training with a frozen ATPL and 240 hours (correct?). How does he get to the 1000-1500 hour stage to validate the license?
Basically, if most of us want to end up flying big kit to far places, that being the goal and all, what do we need to do to get from 240 hours to 1000 hours?! Short of buying blocks of hours in Arizona or some place!
What are the options for hour building? Air taxi? DHL? ChanEx?
If you then go to an airline with a logbook containing 1200 hours, for example, do they require part of that to have been on singles, twins, turboprops, MCC experience etc?
As far as I can make out there are two stages to "getting there" after flight school:
1. Validating the license.
2. Getting an airline job.
I'd love to hear from guys (and gals!) who've been through it, so I, and whoever else needs this info, can get an accurate take on what the realities are going to be further down the line.
All replies greatly appreciated!!
WD.
Guest
Posts: n/a
WD,
For some people the Frozen ATPL with 240hrs is enough for them to walk straight into an airline job - both jet and turboprop. I have 2 friends who fly the Bac 1-11 & B737 that qualified at about the same time as myself with the same qualifications/hours and walked straight into these jobs. Although I applied at the same time, I just got Dear John's. We were even in the same age group and held previously decent jobs. Consequently I am now in no-mans land. Frozen ATPL, MCC, Perf 'A', 400+ hours and still flying a desk. I am confused as to why you mention DHL, Chanex as being stepping stones to better things. I would give my right arm to be given a chance to make a career with either of these companies - even an interview would be a giant leap forward. Don't let anyone tell you that a cargo operator is inferior to passenger carriers. From the information I have gathered the rewards are just as good if not greater. The only sensible way to get from your 240Hrs to a more 'employable' number is to get an FI rating or find a weekend job parachute dropping, aerial photography etc but even these jobs are extremely difficult to get. FI rating = £4000 + loss of earnings. No easy way but there again you may get lucky and waltz straight in, never having to consider this situation. Good luck. The sooner everyone else on this site gets a job, the more chance I have...
For some people the Frozen ATPL with 240hrs is enough for them to walk straight into an airline job - both jet and turboprop. I have 2 friends who fly the Bac 1-11 & B737 that qualified at about the same time as myself with the same qualifications/hours and walked straight into these jobs. Although I applied at the same time, I just got Dear John's. We were even in the same age group and held previously decent jobs. Consequently I am now in no-mans land. Frozen ATPL, MCC, Perf 'A', 400+ hours and still flying a desk. I am confused as to why you mention DHL, Chanex as being stepping stones to better things. I would give my right arm to be given a chance to make a career with either of these companies - even an interview would be a giant leap forward. Don't let anyone tell you that a cargo operator is inferior to passenger carriers. From the information I have gathered the rewards are just as good if not greater. The only sensible way to get from your 240Hrs to a more 'employable' number is to get an FI rating or find a weekend job parachute dropping, aerial photography etc but even these jobs are extremely difficult to get. FI rating = £4000 + loss of earnings. No easy way but there again you may get lucky and waltz straight in, never having to consider this situation. Good luck. The sooner everyone else on this site gets a job, the more chance I have...
Guest
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I gotta confirm the answer you got on DHL and Channex. They would like you to have well over 1000 hours, MCC and Jet or Turbo experience.
In case you're thinking of Air Taxi operators, they often need you to have 1500+ hours as they reduce their insurance policies cost by only employing people with a full ATPL (not frozen).
And completely forget about corporate. They only hire seasoned and experienced people who choose the lifestyle that comes with corporate flying.
How you dó get 1000 hours? Beats me. If you know it, please tell me.
After two years past the final IR test and 400 letters later, I am still looking, while I work as a corporate dispatcher/flight planner. Got into 2 selections, both of which I must have failed.....
In case you're thinking of Air Taxi operators, they often need you to have 1500+ hours as they reduce their insurance policies cost by only employing people with a full ATPL (not frozen).
And completely forget about corporate. They only hire seasoned and experienced people who choose the lifestyle that comes with corporate flying.
How you dó get 1000 hours? Beats me. If you know it, please tell me.
After two years past the final IR test and 400 letters later, I am still looking, while I work as a corporate dispatcher/flight planner. Got into 2 selections, both of which I must have failed.....
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hi lads,
Cheers for the replies. Just to be clear, by no means was I having a go at cargo pilots!!! My question basically was asking if the requirements for civil vs freight are different, and it would seem not to be the case, so at least that's cleared up! Damn right, I would give various parts of my anatomy to be in the right seat of an Electra too.
A lot of it would seem to be luck, from reading peoples' different posts and perspectives, but luck is a fiendishly unreliable b**tard! So, again, what are the options as regards getting those hours up??
Keep 'em coming men, we need info over here!
Cheers,
WD
Cheers for the replies. Just to be clear, by no means was I having a go at cargo pilots!!! My question basically was asking if the requirements for civil vs freight are different, and it would seem not to be the case, so at least that's cleared up! Damn right, I would give various parts of my anatomy to be in the right seat of an Electra too.
A lot of it would seem to be luck, from reading peoples' different posts and perspectives, but luck is a fiendishly unreliable b**tard! So, again, what are the options as regards getting those hours up??
Keep 'em coming men, we need info over here!
Cheers,
WD
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hi folks,
Myself, being at the stage where I need these same answers for the bank manager, have looked into what the options are. At the end of the day I think you will find alot of people use the dreaded word 'luck', but here are the obvious routes to more hours/ jobs:
1) Flight Instructor Rating.
2) Glider Towing.
3) Parachute Dropping.
4) Photography
5) Banner Towing (bit rare but..)
6) Holiday Makers Joy Rides (!).
7) Pay For Hours. (where did I plant that money tree?).
8) Drug Running (just kiddin'!!!!)
As I say, I am yet to actually get going with the training but these questions are still very important. If you are, like me, looking to borrow money the banks will want some pretty conclusive evidence that you'll get a job after training. I guess the ideal solution would be to have a letter from an airline or other potential employer offering an interview after training. Even so, an interview is just an interview, not a job offer.
Never give up, I know I won't.
VFE.
Myself, being at the stage where I need these same answers for the bank manager, have looked into what the options are. At the end of the day I think you will find alot of people use the dreaded word 'luck', but here are the obvious routes to more hours/ jobs:
1) Flight Instructor Rating.
2) Glider Towing.
3) Parachute Dropping.
4) Photography
5) Banner Towing (bit rare but..)
6) Holiday Makers Joy Rides (!).
7) Pay For Hours. (where did I plant that money tree?).
8) Drug Running (just kiddin'!!!!)
As I say, I am yet to actually get going with the training but these questions are still very important. If you are, like me, looking to borrow money the banks will want some pretty conclusive evidence that you'll get a job after training. I guess the ideal solution would be to have a letter from an airline or other potential employer offering an interview after training. Even so, an interview is just an interview, not a job offer.
Never give up, I know I won't.
VFE.
