A suggestion for earning money
Guest
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A suggestion for earning money
Just flicking through the Daily Mail on Thursday and notcied an advert for virgin train drivers.
Whilst training (which takes 12 months) you will receive £15,021, then when your training is finished your salary will be DOUBLED.
Sounds like somthing worth looking into if you are struggling to save up the money for self funding.
Cheers
Dave
Whilst training (which takes 12 months) you will receive £15,021, then when your training is finished your salary will be DOUBLED.
Sounds like somthing worth looking into if you are struggling to save up the money for self funding.
Cheers
Dave
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
From: Warks
I would think it would be the same for most jobs which are careers as opposed to just jobs, especially if they're paying for your training. If they are paying for your training, it was also be extremely unethical to take advantage of them when you have no intention of continuing it as a career,
TB
TB
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,991
Likes: 8
From: UK
Who said anything about going back to aviation afterwards!!??
When you see some of the comments made by pilots on this forum about their working conditions I find it difficult to believe that Virgin trains would be any worse?
A contract is a contract - please tell me where the word "ethical" comes into it. It's a free country and we have the right to market our skills and expertise to anyone who wants to buy them. Would you turn down a pilot's job on the Shuttle because it's not "career"??
When you see some of the comments made by pilots on this forum about their working conditions I find it difficult to believe that Virgin trains would be any worse?
A contract is a contract - please tell me where the word "ethical" comes into it. It's a free country and we have the right to market our skills and expertise to anyone who wants to buy them. Would you turn down a pilot's job on the Shuttle because it's not "career"??
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
From: Warks
fireflybob,
Well liquidhockey, who started the thread, did. He specifically mentioned it as being something:
This is a forum for people who want to become commercial pilots - not one on which to discuss jobs in general.
As for ethical, presumably if a person (someone who did want to return to aviation) went to a job interview for a train driver job they would have to give reasons as to why they wanted to be a train driver. Saying 'I thought it would be good way to earn money and save up for my commercial pilot's licence' would probably not go down so well if they were investing in your training. The only other option therefore is to lie, and keep your flying aspirations from them. Hardly ethical,
TB
PS. What is 'the Shuttle'
Who said anything about going back to aviation afterwards!!??
worth looking into if you are struggling to save up the money for self funding
As for ethical, presumably if a person (someone who did want to return to aviation) went to a job interview for a train driver job they would have to give reasons as to why they wanted to be a train driver. Saying 'I thought it would be good way to earn money and save up for my commercial pilot's licence' would probably not go down so well if they were investing in your training. The only other option therefore is to lie, and keep your flying aspirations from them. Hardly ethical,
TB
PS. What is 'the Shuttle'
Guest
Posts: n/a
Token bird.
You have misinterpretted what i was saying.
Let me make this more clearer for you.
If you are struggling to find money to self fund Pilot Training?!?!
i.e. a good job to look at for earning better money to pay for the training.
So as for saying that i wouldnt want to come back to aviation, i meant nothing of the sort.
Regards
Dave
You have misinterpretted what i was saying.
Let me make this more clearer for you.
If you are struggling to find money to self fund Pilot Training?!?!
i.e. a good job to look at for earning better money to pay for the training.
So as for saying that i wouldnt want to come back to aviation, i meant nothing of the sort.
Regards
Dave
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,991
Likes: 8
From: UK
As an experienced professional pilot who has been "resting" for nearly 2 years now I would have no guilt about taking a job with the likes of Virgin or anyone else, knowing full well that I might return to aviaition at a later date.
Please tell me why this should be unethical.
It would, of course, be unethical to not tell the truth at interview should one be asked questions concerning future plans but we always tell the truth at interview, don't we?
Please tell me why this should be unethical.
It would, of course, be unethical to not tell the truth at interview should one be asked questions concerning future plans but we always tell the truth at interview, don't we?
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,068
Likes: 0
From: Brighton. UK. (Via Liverpool).
Interesting. First off, you will find most train operating companys are always looking at recruiting. Not just Virgin. Most offer good pay too, anything from 25k up to 32k for the freight drivers. There is no such thing as a 'contract/bond' kind of thing, this is not agreed by the unions.
Before you start you need to do the apptitude tests. I have seen them and they are similar to the airline ones posted on this site.(See menu on the left). There is a fail rate of about 86% now. A year ago it was 89% so they must be getting easier
It takes new entrants in our company 10 weeks 'front-ending' (sitting at the front making notes, seeing how it all works etc) then 9 weeks in school and if they pass everthing (rules, 8hr oral exam, Traction(equivilant to a type rating) another 8 hour oral exam) then they do 15 weeks driving with there instructor. After 15 weeks its a 2 week exam, that covers everything from route knowledge to train handling and again, rules and traction. Upon completion they are on there own and get the full rate.
As for a minimum contract period, most require that once you are in you can't move depots for 3 years. Thats the closest you will get to a contract.
Some of the shifts are long too. We do a 4 day, 35 hour week so we average just under 9hrs a shift. That all seems miles away when you have just finished a stretch of 9/10 hour shifts. You do get some short ones though, our shortest is 5 and a half hours, not had that too often though. Virgin have some jobs on a sat that are 10 and a half hours long and start at 0330.
Its the same all over the network really. They want to squeeze what they can out of you and the rostas reflect this all over, maximum production, bare minimum breaks etc. Same old moaning as most industries like this, always lots of politics going on behind the scenes, always a 'them and us' situation.
Train driving is ok though, don't let me put you off. If you want to do it to earn the cash to fly then you should idealy be single and living at home with the parents and saving hard. You can easily earn excess of 35+k if you put a few hours overtime in.
E-mail me for any more information if you require further help.
Before you start you need to do the apptitude tests. I have seen them and they are similar to the airline ones posted on this site.(See menu on the left). There is a fail rate of about 86% now. A year ago it was 89% so they must be getting easier
It takes new entrants in our company 10 weeks 'front-ending' (sitting at the front making notes, seeing how it all works etc) then 9 weeks in school and if they pass everthing (rules, 8hr oral exam, Traction(equivilant to a type rating) another 8 hour oral exam) then they do 15 weeks driving with there instructor. After 15 weeks its a 2 week exam, that covers everything from route knowledge to train handling and again, rules and traction. Upon completion they are on there own and get the full rate.
As for a minimum contract period, most require that once you are in you can't move depots for 3 years. Thats the closest you will get to a contract.
Some of the shifts are long too. We do a 4 day, 35 hour week so we average just under 9hrs a shift. That all seems miles away when you have just finished a stretch of 9/10 hour shifts. You do get some short ones though, our shortest is 5 and a half hours, not had that too often though. Virgin have some jobs on a sat that are 10 and a half hours long and start at 0330.
Its the same all over the network really. They want to squeeze what they can out of you and the rostas reflect this all over, maximum production, bare minimum breaks etc. Same old moaning as most industries like this, always lots of politics going on behind the scenes, always a 'them and us' situation.Train driving is ok though, don't let me put you off. If you want to do it to earn the cash to fly then you should idealy be single and living at home with the parents and saving hard. You can easily earn excess of 35+k if you put a few hours overtime in.
E-mail me for any more information if you require further help.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
ship first officer should be a consideration too...
I learned recently that ship first officers for major oil companies are paid 1000 uk/month in INDIA (!) during their training (training is paid by the company obviously)
I think this is not bad, especially for India.
maybe someone working in the shipping industry can elaborate...
When i think we have to spend 50K for a JAA fATPL (+ loss of revenue), and almost no jobs at the end...
if you miracoulously find a job its with the likes of easy or ryanair, paying cash for your type rating for a @### contract with @@#@ bases.
pilots are doomed
I learned recently that ship first officers for major oil companies are paid 1000 uk/month in INDIA (!) during their training (training is paid by the company obviously)
I think this is not bad, especially for India.
maybe someone working in the shipping industry can elaborate...
When i think we have to spend 50K for a JAA fATPL (+ loss of revenue), and almost no jobs at the end...
if you miracoulously find a job its with the likes of easy or ryanair, paying cash for your type rating for a @### contract with @@#@ bases.
pilots are doomed
Why do it if it's not fun?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 12
From: Bournemouth
Ok, I don't get it. What is this thread about?
No one is under any impression that pilots are well-paid. Everyone on this forum knows that if they want to earn as much money as possible they should find another career. Many people - myself included - are already in careers where we have more earning potential than we would have as pilots.
So why are we training to be pilots?
Because we love flying! We're prepared to accept a lower wage than we could get in other careers in order to do something which we love.
Certainly if the previous paragraph doesn't apply to you, you should look at a career as a train driver, or a plumber, or just about anything else. But those of us who want to become pilots already know that we will be under-paid, and have accepted this. Or, if we haven't accepted it, we're in for a big shock when we get our first job...
FFF
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