US flight training questions
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 147
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From: england
US flight training questions
Hiya Guys,
Although I am nearing the start of a four year course at University, I am trying to do as much research now as is possible. One of the possibilities for my future is emmigrating to the USA and becoming a US citizen. I have always wanted to become an airline pilot but I know nothing about the US flight training system. I do no that sponsorships in the US are non existant however.
I was looking into Westwind, Pan-Am and Commairs training schemes particuarly, does anyone know anything about them?
From the course structure, I see that they all get you to CPL but for example westwinds right seat direct scheme does not get you an ATPL, yet the scheme is designed to get you onto the right seat of a regional airplane (as the name suggests) directly. How is this done without an ATPL? I am guessing thst you would have to get an ATPL seperatly before applying?
Why is their such a range in price at the different schools? They all offer basicly the same course but the range in price is huge!
One last question, do you think that starting a flight training course in 5/6 years time is wise? I know the avaition industry is largly cyclical but surly it will be back by then and the back log of trained pilots cleared???
This forum seems to focus mainly on the UK but...
Thanks!
Although I am nearing the start of a four year course at University, I am trying to do as much research now as is possible. One of the possibilities for my future is emmigrating to the USA and becoming a US citizen. I have always wanted to become an airline pilot but I know nothing about the US flight training system. I do no that sponsorships in the US are non existant however.
I was looking into Westwind, Pan-Am and Commairs training schemes particuarly, does anyone know anything about them?
From the course structure, I see that they all get you to CPL but for example westwinds right seat direct scheme does not get you an ATPL, yet the scheme is designed to get you onto the right seat of a regional airplane (as the name suggests) directly. How is this done without an ATPL? I am guessing thst you would have to get an ATPL seperatly before applying?
Why is their such a range in price at the different schools? They all offer basicly the same course but the range in price is huge!
One last question, do you think that starting a flight training course in 5/6 years time is wise? I know the avaition industry is largly cyclical but surly it will be back by then and the back log of trained pilots cleared???
This forum seems to focus mainly on the UK but...
Thanks!
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 165
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From: Rip-off Strasse
First of all, have you considered doing a combined University degree and professional flight course?There are universities in the US that offer this.
The emigrating to the US will be a hassle, unless of course you already have citizenship, a green card or decide to marry a US citizen. What flight students often do is enroll in a so-called part 141 training course, which enables you to apply for a J-1 visa, which in turn is valid for 2 years and allows you to work as a flight instructor (only). Therefore, since you only have 2 years to get certified and instruct to get hours, I would suggest a school who is certified under part 141, can give you a J-1 visa, and has a reasonably quick course. Here`s one; North American Institute of Aviation in South Carolina. Not as expensive as the more high profile schools either.
There will also come a time where (if you don`t get citizenship and so on) you will have to go home and convert your FAA certificates to JAA licenses.
To clear up some confusion you might have; both CPL and ATPL licenses give you the right to fly for hire. The CPL is the "lower" of the two and is an absolute minimum to get you in the right seat. And basically the ATPL gives you the right to be Captain. I know there are more details around this, but that`s the basic idea. In the US you have one written exam for each certificate, and the writtens are only valid for 2 years. In Europe, the theory is far more comprehensive, with about 14 writtens for the fATPL.
In 5-6 years the situation is probably better again, but this is something that really can`t be guesstimated too well these days, with the blasts going off all over the place, nuclear deception and hopefully disarmament, and a possible Gulf War II. But in any case you should get an instructor`s rating and "do your time" while in the US.
Hope that helped a bit, and keep in mind that I`m generalising, there are always more details than what you get here.
The emigrating to the US will be a hassle, unless of course you already have citizenship, a green card or decide to marry a US citizen. What flight students often do is enroll in a so-called part 141 training course, which enables you to apply for a J-1 visa, which in turn is valid for 2 years and allows you to work as a flight instructor (only). Therefore, since you only have 2 years to get certified and instruct to get hours, I would suggest a school who is certified under part 141, can give you a J-1 visa, and has a reasonably quick course. Here`s one; North American Institute of Aviation in South Carolina. Not as expensive as the more high profile schools either.
There will also come a time where (if you don`t get citizenship and so on) you will have to go home and convert your FAA certificates to JAA licenses.
To clear up some confusion you might have; both CPL and ATPL licenses give you the right to fly for hire. The CPL is the "lower" of the two and is an absolute minimum to get you in the right seat. And basically the ATPL gives you the right to be Captain. I know there are more details around this, but that`s the basic idea. In the US you have one written exam for each certificate, and the writtens are only valid for 2 years. In Europe, the theory is far more comprehensive, with about 14 writtens for the fATPL.
In 5-6 years the situation is probably better again, but this is something that really can`t be guesstimated too well these days, with the blasts going off all over the place, nuclear deception and hopefully disarmament, and a possible Gulf War II. But in any case you should get an instructor`s rating and "do your time" while in the US.
Hope that helped a bit, and keep in mind that I`m generalising, there are always more details than what you get here.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 147
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From: england
Ok Thanks!
The way that I saw (and read from a CAA info leaflet) it was that a CPL allowed you to act as PIC of single pilot aircraft. An fATPL allowed you to act as PSIC of two pilot aircraft and ATPL allowed you to fly as PIC of two pilot aircraft. I thought therefore you would need an fATPL mimimum to be able to act as a first officer on any airliner be it an ERJ145 or a 744.
Am I wrong about that? I could get a position as First Officer on somthing like an ERJ 145 or ATR 75 with a CPL???
Thanks
The way that I saw (and read from a CAA info leaflet) it was that a CPL allowed you to act as PIC of single pilot aircraft. An fATPL allowed you to act as PSIC of two pilot aircraft and ATPL allowed you to fly as PIC of two pilot aircraft. I thought therefore you would need an fATPL mimimum to be able to act as a first officer on any airliner be it an ERJ145 or a 744.
Am I wrong about that? I could get a position as First Officer on somthing like an ERJ 145 or ATR 75 with a CPL???
Thanks
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
From: Rip-off Strasse
You can get a RHS with a CPL, but an fATPL is more often than not required by the companies. I think it has to do with an upgrade to the ATPL once you have the experience (1500 hours) since nobody really wants a "career F/O", they want you to get the experience as F/O and then go on to make the Captain upgrade.
You`re right about being PIC on small aircraft (less than 5700 kgs) with a CPL, and the rest as well. What you really are showing to the companies upon getting the fATPL is that you have put down the effort and have proved that you can handle it in theory - the hours come along after awhile, don`t be too worried about that yet. The requirements in the US are somewhat different than in Europe since they don`t have anything called fATPL, and you normally take the ATP written when you are close to, or already have the hours so that you can do the checkride.
So to answer your question; in Europe the norm is that you need an fATPL to get hired (which is really a CPL with your ATPL writtens completed), and in the US you need a CPL (actually called commercial pilot certificate). In addition, the instrument and multiengine ratings are required by 99.99999% of the companies.
The minimum hours and licenses/certificates you need are set forth by the companies (obviously above a certain minimum required by regulations), but as for being F/O on a large aircraft, once you have the licenses, all you need is a type rating course for the given aircraft (including training and checkride), and you`ll be good to go! But that`s a bit down the road...
You`re right about being PIC on small aircraft (less than 5700 kgs) with a CPL, and the rest as well. What you really are showing to the companies upon getting the fATPL is that you have put down the effort and have proved that you can handle it in theory - the hours come along after awhile, don`t be too worried about that yet. The requirements in the US are somewhat different than in Europe since they don`t have anything called fATPL, and you normally take the ATP written when you are close to, or already have the hours so that you can do the checkride.
So to answer your question; in Europe the norm is that you need an fATPL to get hired (which is really a CPL with your ATPL writtens completed), and in the US you need a CPL (actually called commercial pilot certificate). In addition, the instrument and multiengine ratings are required by 99.99999% of the companies.
The minimum hours and licenses/certificates you need are set forth by the companies (obviously above a certain minimum required by regulations), but as for being F/O on a large aircraft, once you have the licenses, all you need is a type rating course for the given aircraft (including training and checkride), and you`ll be good to go! But that`s a bit down the road...
