PPSC, 4 Forces, Pan Am now SFT's Florida connection!?
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 24
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From: U.K.
F900B,
Don't you think that is low, listing and quoting an article which lists person dieing in one of Ambassador's Aircraft?
But, I do have to give you credit for the idea of looking in the newspaper for infomation on Rudi Dekkers. A simple search of the Naples Daily News, the only local newspaper I could find, had this to say about the airline and Mr. Dekkers
February 13 2001 Naples Daily News Article
said Dekkers, 44, ..., "we are going to take over Miami to Sarasota and Miami to Naples."
March 10, 2001 Naples Daily News Article
The Naples-based company, co-owned by residents Rudi Dekkers and Wally Hilliard, vows to begin service by April, despite Airport Authority skepticism that Florida Air can replace the 80,000 customers who flew American Eagle last year in Naples.
"We're ready to go," Dekkers said. "We have the financial resources to buy more planes if we have to."
March 23, 2001 Naples Daily News Article
"They've told me they'd like to get service going as soon as American Eagle leaves," LeBlanc-Hutchings said.
April 13, 2001 Naples Daily News Article
With only a week to go until American Eagle pulls out of Naples Municipal Airport, the potential replacement for the airline hasn't yet committed to come in.
Dekkers said he believes Florida Air can equal the service provided by American Eagle and doesn't think any other airlines need to come in.
April 19, 2001 Naples Daily News Article
"We're ready to go," Dekkers said. "Everything has been approved and we want to get started as soon as possible."
In Naples, 19 employees of American Eagle are losing their jobs.
"We told one of the managers at American Eagle that we were willing to hire (American Eagle employees) when they announced they were leaving," Dekkers said.
April 20, 2001 Naples Daily News Article
Florida Air may not be as big as some airlines, but it is ready to do its part for Naples Municipal Airport.
On Thursday, the Naples-based airline officially announced it had signed a contract to operate at the airport and provide service to Miami and Sarasota.
June 19, 2001 Naples Daily News Article
Naples Airport Authority officials are no longer sure Florida Air, a new airline that was expected to replace American Eagle, will be coming.
Florida Air, which is based in Naples, was expected to begin operations at about this time at Naples Airport, but it is not yet clear when or if they will ever arrive.
That sure is alot of promises listed in those newspaper articles. The sad thing is people count on what people say. People make plans and spend money on these announcements and nothing comes of it.
Makes you wonder about your training or airline career when someone like Dekkers is in control of it!
Don't you think that is low, listing and quoting an article which lists person dieing in one of Ambassador's Aircraft?
But, I do have to give you credit for the idea of looking in the newspaper for infomation on Rudi Dekkers. A simple search of the Naples Daily News, the only local newspaper I could find, had this to say about the airline and Mr. Dekkers
February 13 2001 Naples Daily News Article
said Dekkers, 44, ..., "we are going to take over Miami to Sarasota and Miami to Naples."
March 10, 2001 Naples Daily News Article
The Naples-based company, co-owned by residents Rudi Dekkers and Wally Hilliard, vows to begin service by April, despite Airport Authority skepticism that Florida Air can replace the 80,000 customers who flew American Eagle last year in Naples.
"We're ready to go," Dekkers said. "We have the financial resources to buy more planes if we have to."
March 23, 2001 Naples Daily News Article
"They've told me they'd like to get service going as soon as American Eagle leaves," LeBlanc-Hutchings said.
April 13, 2001 Naples Daily News Article
With only a week to go until American Eagle pulls out of Naples Municipal Airport, the potential replacement for the airline hasn't yet committed to come in.
Dekkers said he believes Florida Air can equal the service provided by American Eagle and doesn't think any other airlines need to come in.
April 19, 2001 Naples Daily News Article
"We're ready to go," Dekkers said. "Everything has been approved and we want to get started as soon as possible."
In Naples, 19 employees of American Eagle are losing their jobs.
"We told one of the managers at American Eagle that we were willing to hire (American Eagle employees) when they announced they were leaving," Dekkers said.
April 20, 2001 Naples Daily News Article
Florida Air may not be as big as some airlines, but it is ready to do its part for Naples Municipal Airport.
On Thursday, the Naples-based airline officially announced it had signed a contract to operate at the airport and provide service to Miami and Sarasota.
June 19, 2001 Naples Daily News Article
Naples Airport Authority officials are no longer sure Florida Air, a new airline that was expected to replace American Eagle, will be coming.
Florida Air, which is based in Naples, was expected to begin operations at about this time at Naples Airport, but it is not yet clear when or if they will ever arrive.
That sure is alot of promises listed in those newspaper articles. The sad thing is people count on what people say. People make plans and spend money on these announcements and nothing comes of it.
Makes you wonder about your training or airline career when someone like Dekkers is in control of it!
Jet Blast Rat
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,081
Likes: 0
From: Sarfend-on-Sea
There seems to be a large amount of wild speculation, guesswork and even propoganda here. The impression of this situation is becoming more confused, not clearer.
I particularily think that posting talk of death in aeroplanes that as far as the article says did not belong to Ambassador in a post about Ambassador could be considered stirring, 900B.
'Florida Air' do you have any connection with the airline for which you name yourself here? If not then either you have chosen your moniker to be disingenuous or to hide your usual identity and to be disingenuous. You also post what seems to be a lie - there is no mention of people being killed in Ambassador aircraft in 900B's post. Unless you know differently, and would like to post the full report so it can be seen whether it was the hiring pilot's fault or not. If not, then I would ask you politely not to further the wild speculation here.
The remainder of post is a series of quotes with no context - yes the links are there to find the context, but how many readers will do so? You seem to be trying to muddy the waters here, not try to find out the real situation.
-----------------------
Note that I work for SFT, in the groundschool. Our managing director has just returned from visiting Naples. I understand that he is happy with what he found there (he has shown himself perfectly able to change his partner in this course if necessary, recently changing from OBA).
Ambassador's post in this thread is confirmed. They have stopped some of their maintenance at Naples, and have another maintenance base still up and running. The closure was for efficiency and to concentrate on training at Naples.
Florida Air had its operator's certificate suspended because of the citizenship of the owner - he is not an American citizen. It is expected that the certificate will be reinstated in the next few weeks.
[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: Send Clowns ]
I particularily think that posting talk of death in aeroplanes that as far as the article says did not belong to Ambassador in a post about Ambassador could be considered stirring, 900B.
'Florida Air' do you have any connection with the airline for which you name yourself here? If not then either you have chosen your moniker to be disingenuous or to hide your usual identity and to be disingenuous. You also post what seems to be a lie - there is no mention of people being killed in Ambassador aircraft in 900B's post. Unless you know differently, and would like to post the full report so it can be seen whether it was the hiring pilot's fault or not. If not, then I would ask you politely not to further the wild speculation here.
The remainder of post is a series of quotes with no context - yes the links are there to find the context, but how many readers will do so? You seem to be trying to muddy the waters here, not try to find out the real situation.
-----------------------
Note that I work for SFT, in the groundschool. Our managing director has just returned from visiting Naples. I understand that he is happy with what he found there (he has shown himself perfectly able to change his partner in this course if necessary, recently changing from OBA).
Ambassador's post in this thread is confirmed. They have stopped some of their maintenance at Naples, and have another maintenance base still up and running. The closure was for efficiency and to concentrate on training at Naples.
Florida Air had its operator's certificate suspended because of the citizenship of the owner - he is not an American citizen. It is expected that the certificate will be reinstated in the next few weeks.
[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: Send Clowns ]
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: Florida/Bahamas
Florida Air,
You right, and i've edited accordingly. The fact still remains that your Boss ( assuming you work for Florida Air hence your PPrune name) is Co-owner and Owner of the two companies Florida Air and Ambassador Airways, according to those news sources. And then having someone from Ambassador Airways come here to the forum and state that there is no connection between them.
I think thats low, and lie thinking people will never do the research and find out differently.
You right, and i've edited accordingly. The fact still remains that your Boss ( assuming you work for Florida Air hence your PPrune name) is Co-owner and Owner of the two companies Florida Air and Ambassador Airways, according to those news sources. And then having someone from Ambassador Airways come here to the forum and state that there is no connection between them.
I think thats low, and lie thinking people will never do the research and find out differently.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
From: UK
Send Clowns
More fool your Managing Director.
What does this say about SFT when they are advertising a companying being associated to another (Ambassador Airways and Florida Air) only to have Ambassador bald face deny it!!!!
Does SFT agree with this? Obviously.
This is not an attack on anyone but when they can't be honest they have no business being in this forum, and students have the right to know the truth!
I suggest that someone from your company talks to someone from their company to get the facts right!
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Remember my name.......
[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: Facts Not Fiction Pls ]
More fool your Managing Director.
What does this say about SFT when they are advertising a companying being associated to another (Ambassador Airways and Florida Air) only to have Ambassador bald face deny it!!!!
Does SFT agree with this? Obviously.
This is not an attack on anyone but when they can't be honest they have no business being in this forum, and students have the right to know the truth!
I suggest that someone from your company talks to someone from their company to get the facts right!
---------------------------
Remember my name.......
[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: Facts Not Fiction Pls ]
Jet Blast Rat
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,081
Likes: 0
From: Sarfend-on-Sea
OK, after that reassurance I have one little point to make to those looking at starting an approved course.
Any offer of help with employment at the end, is just that, assistance, unless you are sponsored. None of the schemes on offer, even those for courses charged at a premium, guarantee even an interview, because schools have been burnt by that one before.
These offers are some help, but should not be the major consideration when looking for a school. A few more major factors :
1. Cost (obviously)/ financing (such as not asking for all money up front)
2. Quality of training
3. Location
4. Efficiency of admin/operations (important, believe me!)
5. Helpful attitude of instructors
and most importantly (in my choice)
6. The 'feel' of the school, whether you like the place. You will spend a lot of time there, and especially in groundschool it can get to be tough, grinding times. You must feel happy with the school.
When I went to choose a school, I looked at all these factors and some personal ones, and could see no school beating SFT in any of them. SFT won out on those I considered most important hands down. Having successfully completed a JAA CPL/IR frozen ATPL at SFT and now started a job with them, I have seen no reason to change my opinion.
You in your choice may put other factors in, or put the factors in another order. You may see the schools differently. The choice of schools is individual and important. I would suggest that confused and unsubstantiated rumour should be investigated, but it shows a real problem, that I have not seen here, should not be a large factor in your important decision.
Any offer of help with employment at the end, is just that, assistance, unless you are sponsored. None of the schemes on offer, even those for courses charged at a premium, guarantee even an interview, because schools have been burnt by that one before.
These offers are some help, but should not be the major consideration when looking for a school. A few more major factors :
1. Cost (obviously)/ financing (such as not asking for all money up front)
2. Quality of training
3. Location
4. Efficiency of admin/operations (important, believe me!)
5. Helpful attitude of instructors
and most importantly (in my choice)
6. The 'feel' of the school, whether you like the place. You will spend a lot of time there, and especially in groundschool it can get to be tough, grinding times. You must feel happy with the school.
When I went to choose a school, I looked at all these factors and some personal ones, and could see no school beating SFT in any of them. SFT won out on those I considered most important hands down. Having successfully completed a JAA CPL/IR frozen ATPL at SFT and now started a job with them, I have seen no reason to change my opinion.
You in your choice may put other factors in, or put the factors in another order. You may see the schools differently. The choice of schools is individual and important. I would suggest that confused and unsubstantiated rumour should be investigated, but it shows a real problem, that I have not seen here, should not be a large factor in your important decision.
Jet Blast Rat
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,081
Likes: 0
From: Sarfend-on-Sea
Facts not Fiction
I cannot find anything on SFT website about Florida Air, although I know they have been mentioned in some of our literature. This means I don't know the wording of how they are mentioned. Without this I cannot compare. However note that Ambassador denies there is an 'affiliation' between the two companies. I assume that in business this has a definite, legal definition. What 'Ambassador' does not deny is any connection - in fact Ambassador having spoken to the executives of Air Florida that day suggests some connection.
If there is a friendship/connection between Florida and Ambassador does legal affiliation really matter to SFT students? Remember this business is aviation, where who you know is important. SFT's contacts with British Airways recently got an unsponsored student an offer of a job, although there is clearly no official affiliation between SFT and BA.
[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: Send Clowns ]
I cannot find anything on SFT website about Florida Air, although I know they have been mentioned in some of our literature. This means I don't know the wording of how they are mentioned. Without this I cannot compare. However note that Ambassador denies there is an 'affiliation' between the two companies. I assume that in business this has a definite, legal definition. What 'Ambassador' does not deny is any connection - in fact Ambassador having spoken to the executives of Air Florida that day suggests some connection.
If there is a friendship/connection between Florida and Ambassador does legal affiliation really matter to SFT students? Remember this business is aviation, where who you know is important. SFT's contacts with British Airways recently got an unsponsored student an offer of a job, although there is clearly no official affiliation between SFT and BA.
[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: Send Clowns ]
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 77
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From: London
Send Clowns,
You are missing an important point that is being made. Whilst everyone acknowledges that assistance is just that, SFT are running bloody great ads in the trades saying that FO positions may be available. It strikes me that there is a difference between not making any promises and then putting in print(as a major plus point for this course)the fact that FO positions may be possible when they categorically are not, due to both airline issues and, at a more basic level, immigration/work permit issues.
What SFT deem to be one of the key attributes to their courses for this autumn (judging by the ads) is simply not achievable.
I fully agree with your points as to which factors should determine the choice of school. But surely a school's integrity should feature highly, and if that is the case, how can SFT claim that vote if they profess to offer an albeit "potential" employment opportunity in the US that is simply unachievable?
I don't want to be confrontational over this and am a fan of SFT up until this. I am still keen to sign with them but would clarification on all of this.
sydneyc
You are missing an important point that is being made. Whilst everyone acknowledges that assistance is just that, SFT are running bloody great ads in the trades saying that FO positions may be available. It strikes me that there is a difference between not making any promises and then putting in print(as a major plus point for this course)the fact that FO positions may be possible when they categorically are not, due to both airline issues and, at a more basic level, immigration/work permit issues.
What SFT deem to be one of the key attributes to their courses for this autumn (judging by the ads) is simply not achievable.
I fully agree with your points as to which factors should determine the choice of school. But surely a school's integrity should feature highly, and if that is the case, how can SFT claim that vote if they profess to offer an albeit "potential" employment opportunity in the US that is simply unachievable?
I don't want to be confrontational over this and am a fan of SFT up until this. I am still keen to sign with them but would clarification on all of this.
sydneyc
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 317
Likes: 0
From: UK
Like a number of others here I am about to hand over a sizeable amount of money to a flying scool and SFT was a leading contender for my money.
I too have been a fan of SFT so far but I am concerned that they:
A) Are associated with a FT organisation who seemingly have misrepresented the truth on this forum
b) Are associated with a FT organisation which is linked to an airline which has had aircraft reposessed
I would urge SFT to respond on this forum to clarify the position and relations between these organisations as their very good reputation is now being placed in jeopardy on the most popular pilot forum on earth.
Desk-pilot
I too have been a fan of SFT so far but I am concerned that they:
A) Are associated with a FT organisation who seemingly have misrepresented the truth on this forum
b) Are associated with a FT organisation which is linked to an airline which has had aircraft reposessed
I would urge SFT to respond on this forum to clarify the position and relations between these organisations as their very good reputation is now being placed in jeopardy on the most popular pilot forum on earth.
Desk-pilot
Jet Blast Rat
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,081
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From: Sarfend-on-Sea
Facts Not Fiction
I can see no problem with offering employment potential with Florida Air.
1. The problems with the company are temporary and beyond SFT's control, and almost certainly knowledge as well, and not relevant when the material was published. The estimate I heard was that they should be sorted within 2 weeks. At the worst SFT were out of date, as I see in another post they use the word 'associated' not affiliated. Looking up affiliate and associate in the Pocket Oxford Dictionary, the former implies a much closer union than the latter. There is no disagreement.
2. Working permission is available in the USA for pilots. I first met European pilots working out there 9 years ago, when there was no lack of pilots. I am sure that with the current recruitment problems in the US for pilots the INS will be even more willing to look into applications. This is clearly the responsibility of the individual student, SFT cannot apply for you, but it is also obvious from the literature : any potential student would assume that Florida Air is based in the USA, that cannot be disguised even if SFT wished to do so!
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Desk Pilot
I understand your concern, but I see no reason to think that Ambassador made any serious misrepresentation anything here or that Florida Air had any aircraft reposessed except the unsubstantiated word of a contributor who is using sharp practices to discredit Ambassador, even using the name 'Florida Air'.
Also remember that if you come to SFT you will pay nothing to Ambassador. You will pay SFT, who in turn pay Ambassador. You are protected by an intermediary. Please do email if you require any more information.
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All
Can I pleed for the unsubstantiated rumours to stop.
If it would not risk me looking to be making excuses for my employer I would forward the suggestion that specific contributors to this thread work for rival FTOs and are trying to damage SFT by association. People are posting rumour as fact, and 'information' designed to obscure rather than illuminate the situation.
Looking back in the thread both the rumours in the original post turned out to be just that : rumours, and untrue, though based on a misunderstood kernel of fact. Until someone has definite information, could it be left at that : 'The rumours are untrue. This thread has run its course'?
[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: Send Clowns ]
I can see no problem with offering employment potential with Florida Air.
1. The problems with the company are temporary and beyond SFT's control, and almost certainly knowledge as well, and not relevant when the material was published. The estimate I heard was that they should be sorted within 2 weeks. At the worst SFT were out of date, as I see in another post they use the word 'associated' not affiliated. Looking up affiliate and associate in the Pocket Oxford Dictionary, the former implies a much closer union than the latter. There is no disagreement.
2. Working permission is available in the USA for pilots. I first met European pilots working out there 9 years ago, when there was no lack of pilots. I am sure that with the current recruitment problems in the US for pilots the INS will be even more willing to look into applications. This is clearly the responsibility of the individual student, SFT cannot apply for you, but it is also obvious from the literature : any potential student would assume that Florida Air is based in the USA, that cannot be disguised even if SFT wished to do so!
-------------------------
Desk Pilot
I understand your concern, but I see no reason to think that Ambassador made any serious misrepresentation anything here or that Florida Air had any aircraft reposessed except the unsubstantiated word of a contributor who is using sharp practices to discredit Ambassador, even using the name 'Florida Air'.
Also remember that if you come to SFT you will pay nothing to Ambassador. You will pay SFT, who in turn pay Ambassador. You are protected by an intermediary. Please do email if you require any more information.
---------
All
Can I pleed for the unsubstantiated rumours to stop.
If it would not risk me looking to be making excuses for my employer I would forward the suggestion that specific contributors to this thread work for rival FTOs and are trying to damage SFT by association. People are posting rumour as fact, and 'information' designed to obscure rather than illuminate the situation.
Looking back in the thread both the rumours in the original post turned out to be just that : rumours, and untrue, though based on a misunderstood kernel of fact. Until someone has definite information, could it be left at that : 'The rumours are untrue. This thread has run its course'?
[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: Send Clowns ]
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
From: UK
Sending Clowns -
Lets get this straight and stop putting words in my mouth!
I started with a question regarding what I heard:
After all that went on last week has anyone heard whats going on at Ambassador Florida where SFT is sending students? Just heard from a student there that they closed their Maintenance facility down yesterday and their affiliated Airline is dead in the water. What about the school - will it stay open without the Maintenance facility?
Info please.....
It was a simple question that turned out to be true thanks to the Ambassador respones.
However without prompting they listed what seem to be untruths - there is no bad mouthing done by bringing up this discussion, merely that people are trying to ascertain the truth.
I am sorry the you work for SFT and that this has dragged that company in but thats what happens when two companies advertise a partnership.
Postings by different people have shown there is cause for concern however the SFT web site seems to have removed the airline item from the page. Seems like there was something to correct and it has been done.
Therefore all is fair, no untruths and nobody is trying to bad mouth another company. So please do not accuse me of trying to give a company a bad reputation because I ask a question that has been justified. O lost money with PPSC and want to get the fact before I do anything further. This is what a forum is for!
Lets get this straight and stop putting words in my mouth!
I started with a question regarding what I heard:
After all that went on last week has anyone heard whats going on at Ambassador Florida where SFT is sending students? Just heard from a student there that they closed their Maintenance facility down yesterday and their affiliated Airline is dead in the water. What about the school - will it stay open without the Maintenance facility?
Info please.....
It was a simple question that turned out to be true thanks to the Ambassador respones.
However without prompting they listed what seem to be untruths - there is no bad mouthing done by bringing up this discussion, merely that people are trying to ascertain the truth.
I am sorry the you work for SFT and that this has dragged that company in but thats what happens when two companies advertise a partnership.
Postings by different people have shown there is cause for concern however the SFT web site seems to have removed the airline item from the page. Seems like there was something to correct and it has been done.
Therefore all is fair, no untruths and nobody is trying to bad mouth another company. So please do not accuse me of trying to give a company a bad reputation because I ask a question that has been justified. O lost money with PPSC and want to get the fact before I do anything further. This is what a forum is for!
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: U.K.
Send Clown,
I must apologize. I looked into the plane crash listed in F900B's newspaper article and found it belonged to Rudi Dekkers (he has so many hats, I am not sure which one to hang on his head. Ambassador? Aerojet? FlAir?).
I read the report at the U.S. Government site of the National Transportation Safety Board.
You can read it for yourself here.
If I may Quote the Investigation Report:
"On February 5, 1999, about 2156 eastern standard time, a Cessna 210J, N6174F, registered to Aero Jet Service Center Inc., operating as a 14 CFR Part 91 personal flight, crashed into the Gulf of Mexico, while on approach for landing at the Naples Municipal Airport, Naples, Florida. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and no flight plan was filed. The airplane was destroyed. The private pilot was fatally injured."
"The pilot was checked out in N6174F by Ambassador Airways on December 30, 1998, and was signed off by the certified flight instructor for day-VFR use. He flew the airplane on January 2, 1999, January 8, 1999, and on the day of the accident for a total of 6.7 hours."
"Partial aircraft wreckage that was retrieved from the Gulf of Mexico was released to Mr. Rudi Dekkers, President, Ambassador Airways (Aerojet Aviation Inc.) on February 23, 1999. Mr. Dekkers, signed a notarized statement on NTSB Form 6120.15 stating that aircraft instruments retained for further analysis by the NTSB could be disposed of after the examination was completed on February 23, 1999."
I hope that settles that Fact, and it is not Fiction!
As for your Question about me, I cannot say without jeopardizing my career. This forum is to get the truth out, not to commit suicide. That is why we all have forum names and do not list our real names.
This has taken the issue on a wild tangent. All I am saying is check up on Mr Rudi Dekkers. There is alot of information out there on the man, along with a trail of broken promises and people he owes money to. I found out the hard way and I am trying to get people to check up on the man and the company before they give him their hard earned DOSH!
Do not think I am saying anything about SFT. I think SFT is an excellent company with a fantastic reputation. As for the people SFT is currently in bed with, lets just say someone better start doing their homework!
[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: Florida Air ]
[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: Florida Air ]
I must apologize. I looked into the plane crash listed in F900B's newspaper article and found it belonged to Rudi Dekkers (he has so many hats, I am not sure which one to hang on his head. Ambassador? Aerojet? FlAir?).
I read the report at the U.S. Government site of the National Transportation Safety Board.
You can read it for yourself here.
If I may Quote the Investigation Report:
"On February 5, 1999, about 2156 eastern standard time, a Cessna 210J, N6174F, registered to Aero Jet Service Center Inc., operating as a 14 CFR Part 91 personal flight, crashed into the Gulf of Mexico, while on approach for landing at the Naples Municipal Airport, Naples, Florida. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and no flight plan was filed. The airplane was destroyed. The private pilot was fatally injured."
"The pilot was checked out in N6174F by Ambassador Airways on December 30, 1998, and was signed off by the certified flight instructor for day-VFR use. He flew the airplane on January 2, 1999, January 8, 1999, and on the day of the accident for a total of 6.7 hours."
"Partial aircraft wreckage that was retrieved from the Gulf of Mexico was released to Mr. Rudi Dekkers, President, Ambassador Airways (Aerojet Aviation Inc.) on February 23, 1999. Mr. Dekkers, signed a notarized statement on NTSB Form 6120.15 stating that aircraft instruments retained for further analysis by the NTSB could be disposed of after the examination was completed on February 23, 1999."
I hope that settles that Fact, and it is not Fiction!
As for your Question about me, I cannot say without jeopardizing my career. This forum is to get the truth out, not to commit suicide. That is why we all have forum names and do not list our real names.
This has taken the issue on a wild tangent. All I am saying is check up on Mr Rudi Dekkers. There is alot of information out there on the man, along with a trail of broken promises and people he owes money to. I found out the hard way and I am trying to get people to check up on the man and the company before they give him their hard earned DOSH!
Do not think I am saying anything about SFT. I think SFT is an excellent company with a fantastic reputation. As for the people SFT is currently in bed with, lets just say someone better start doing their homework!
[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: Florida Air ]
[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: Florida Air ]
Jet Blast Rat
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,081
Likes: 0
From: Sarfend-on-Sea
Sorry to go on, Facts, but as stated Ambassador are not affiliated with Florida Air, and as posted under the name 'Ambassador' the maintenance facility was not closed down, they just stopped doing work for outside organisations at their Naples base. I understand they have another base that continues to do so.
Ambassador has posted nothing else, and it has been established that (confusing the issue) the pilot known as 'Florida Air' has no connection with that organisation. I am not sure what you mean by '...listed what seem to be untruths ...'.
Your concern is understandable, and I sympathise with those caught in the demise of PPSC. Having been at the same stage of training as you only last year, I know how it must feel. However your contract, if you do join us, will be with SFT not Ambassador Airways (since you must have 150 hours/100 hours P1 to start the course, you will presumably not even visit Ambassador!), and with no connection with Florida Air unless you apply for a job out there. As far as I can see there is in any case no problem at Ambassador Airways.
I apologise if you thought I was suggesting you were trying to give SFT a bad name, I was not. You made the origin of your concern obvious - others were muddying the waters with less care to explain their cause. As I stated elsewhere your questions are justified. However I would contend that this matter would have been cleared up more quickly had you called SFT, rather than posting here.
I hope we will still see you next week in groundschool. I'll stand you a beer, and we can talk this over at leisure
SFT is a good school, or I would never have asked them for a job!
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No problem, 'Florida Air', my apologies for suggesting you had lied. There was a confused atmosphere to the thread, and the article was not very clear, hence my complaint to 900B!
I accept that one aircraft was owned by Ambassador, but hope you would agree this single incident that may have been pilot error does not reflect on their safety record.
I'm happy that you are hiding identity for personal reasons not to be disingenuous, but could you not have chosen a less confusing name
I know next to nothing about Florida Air, had not heard of Dekker until this evening. I suspect that SFT will want assurances from Dekker after this (it has been noted, hence I am spending my evening on this!!!). Rest assured that our students give their money to SFT. SFT then give money to Ambassador (at least that is how it worked with OBA when I did the course), so as far as I am aware students' money is safe!
Thanks for your support about SFT. I would, of course, agree. For me it was a case of 'liked it so much, I joined the company'!
------
All
Hope I have not offended anyone. I am having a difficult task here, as I am a relatively junior employee of SFT, not management, so can only give my my view of this issue. It seems to have been very confused, but I hope it is clearer now.
If anyone has questions, please do not hesitate to email SFT or, if you prefer, me personally.
Ambassador has posted nothing else, and it has been established that (confusing the issue) the pilot known as 'Florida Air' has no connection with that organisation. I am not sure what you mean by '...listed what seem to be untruths ...'.
Your concern is understandable, and I sympathise with those caught in the demise of PPSC. Having been at the same stage of training as you only last year, I know how it must feel. However your contract, if you do join us, will be with SFT not Ambassador Airways (since you must have 150 hours/100 hours P1 to start the course, you will presumably not even visit Ambassador!), and with no connection with Florida Air unless you apply for a job out there. As far as I can see there is in any case no problem at Ambassador Airways.
I apologise if you thought I was suggesting you were trying to give SFT a bad name, I was not. You made the origin of your concern obvious - others were muddying the waters with less care to explain their cause. As I stated elsewhere your questions are justified. However I would contend that this matter would have been cleared up more quickly had you called SFT, rather than posting here.
I hope we will still see you next week in groundschool. I'll stand you a beer, and we can talk this over at leisure
SFT is a good school, or I would never have asked them for a job!------------------------
No problem, 'Florida Air', my apologies for suggesting you had lied. There was a confused atmosphere to the thread, and the article was not very clear, hence my complaint to 900B!
I accept that one aircraft was owned by Ambassador, but hope you would agree this single incident that may have been pilot error does not reflect on their safety record.
I'm happy that you are hiding identity for personal reasons not to be disingenuous, but could you not have chosen a less confusing name
I know next to nothing about Florida Air, had not heard of Dekker until this evening. I suspect that SFT will want assurances from Dekker after this (it has been noted, hence I am spending my evening on this!!!). Rest assured that our students give their money to SFT. SFT then give money to Ambassador (at least that is how it worked with OBA when I did the course), so as far as I am aware students' money is safe!
Thanks for your support about SFT. I would, of course, agree. For me it was a case of 'liked it so much, I joined the company'!
------
All
Hope I have not offended anyone. I am having a difficult task here, as I am a relatively junior employee of SFT, not management, so can only give my my view of this issue. It seems to have been very confused, but I hope it is clearer now.
If anyone has questions, please do not hesitate to email SFT or, if you prefer, me personally.
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
From: Nottingham
Send Clowns wrote:
I cannot find anything on SFT website about Florida Air, although I know they have been mentioned in some of our literature. This means I don't know the wording of how they are mentioned. Without this I cannot compare. However note that Ambassador denies there is an 'affiliation' between the two companies.
Not surprising that you were unable to find anything about Florida Air since, after my last post, the subject item was, by some strange coincidence, removed. So, in a spirit of co-operation and a wish to help you out, send clowns, I reproduce it word for word:
"Through Ambassador's associate airline Florida Air, 1st Officer positions available - call for details"
Now, without splitting hairs over the difference between 'affiliate' and 'associate', would you care to explain just how your illustrious employer could justify that statement? (and why it has so suddenly disappeared)?
It does seem that SFT have a rather unique taste in overseas partners, doesn't it?
I cannot find anything on SFT website about Florida Air, although I know they have been mentioned in some of our literature. This means I don't know the wording of how they are mentioned. Without this I cannot compare. However note that Ambassador denies there is an 'affiliation' between the two companies.
Not surprising that you were unable to find anything about Florida Air since, after my last post, the subject item was, by some strange coincidence, removed. So, in a spirit of co-operation and a wish to help you out, send clowns, I reproduce it word for word:
"Through Ambassador's associate airline Florida Air, 1st Officer positions available - call for details"
Now, without splitting hairs over the difference between 'affiliate' and 'associate', would you care to explain just how your illustrious employer could justify that statement? (and why it has so suddenly disappeared)?
It does seem that SFT have a rather unique taste in overseas partners, doesn't it?
Jet Blast Rat
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,081
Likes: 0
From: Sarfend-on-Sea
"Associated" and "affiliated" have I think completely different meanings in business. Therefore it is invalid not to 'split hairs' between these two. Unless you know differently, you cannot hold someone to an affiliation who simply claims association!
If you think only of the words 'associate' and 'affiliate', would you not understand from 'associate' someone who you know and with whom you co-operate and may work, but have no binding connection? An affiliate certainly suggests to me some sort of formal partnership, and I believe it does so in business. Can anyone confirm this?
If this is so, it is a vital difference in this relationship, most of all for customers of Ambassador if Florida Air does turn out to have problems!
If on the other hand you can know that these words are synonymous, please could you direct me to a reference that supports this?
As I say, I think SFT has acted in good faith, such as removing reference to Florida Air as soon as any query came up over the company. As student contracts are with SFT not Ambassador in any case, I do not see a great need for concern - SFT itself is in good shape.
[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: Send Clowns ]
If you think only of the words 'associate' and 'affiliate', would you not understand from 'associate' someone who you know and with whom you co-operate and may work, but have no binding connection? An affiliate certainly suggests to me some sort of formal partnership, and I believe it does so in business. Can anyone confirm this?
If this is so, it is a vital difference in this relationship, most of all for customers of Ambassador if Florida Air does turn out to have problems!
If on the other hand you can know that these words are synonymous, please could you direct me to a reference that supports this?
As I say, I think SFT has acted in good faith, such as removing reference to Florida Air as soon as any query came up over the company. As student contracts are with SFT not Ambassador in any case, I do not see a great need for concern - SFT itself is in good shape.
[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: Send Clowns ]
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: U.K.
Send Clown,
Do I have to do all your homework for you? There is another fatal student crash. I wish you would get facts before posting.
You can read the National Transportation Safety Board Report here.
"The aircraft was destroyed and the student-rated pilot was fatally injured. "
As for going on about words 'associate' and 'affiliate', its not the exact definition of each word (which are very close in the dictionary, I.M.H.O.) but what the company is trying to imply. (This kind of reminds me of a Yank that tried to argue the meaning of the word 'is' to try and get out of political trouble a little while back)
If I understood you correctly you commented that you figure that Ambassador will be as good as OBA. (Sorry, he mentioned it
) If that is the bar you use to measure flight schools, I would hate to have to try and do the limbo under it.
Sincerely,
Florida Air
Do I have to do all your homework for you? There is another fatal student crash. I wish you would get facts before posting.
You can read the National Transportation Safety Board Report here.
"The aircraft was destroyed and the student-rated pilot was fatally injured. "
As for going on about words 'associate' and 'affiliate', its not the exact definition of each word (which are very close in the dictionary, I.M.H.O.) but what the company is trying to imply. (This kind of reminds me of a Yank that tried to argue the meaning of the word 'is' to try and get out of political trouble a little while back)
If I understood you correctly you commented that you figure that Ambassador will be as good as OBA. (Sorry, he mentioned it
) If that is the bar you use to measure flight schools, I would hate to have to try and do the limbo under it.Sincerely,
Florida Air
Flies for fun
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 789
Likes: 0
From: Wishing it was somewhere sunny!
Just a few simple questions:
How long have Ambassador been established?
Where did the owners and CEO gain their experience?
What is the track record of the owners and CEO of Ambassador?
Who owns the aircraft?
Why did SFT change horses from OBA?
Sorry, am I asking difficult questions?
Query, I believe that far from being bored, you are afraid of what will come of this thread. I submit that you are attempting to defend SFT! If not, what is your interest?
[ 22 August 2001: Message edited by: Sensible ]
How long have Ambassador been established?
Where did the owners and CEO gain their experience?
What is the track record of the owners and CEO of Ambassador?
Who owns the aircraft?
Why did SFT change horses from OBA?
Sorry, am I asking difficult questions?
Query, I believe that far from being bored, you are afraid of what will come of this thread. I submit that you are attempting to defend SFT! If not, what is your interest?
[ 22 August 2001: Message edited by: Sensible ]
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
From: Florida, USA
Clowns...just a thought - but I would assume that you did not gain your CPL/IR to become a groundschool instructor for SFT.
Have you considered using their connections (NOT affiliations) to get yourself a flying job with BA - or maybe coming out to the USA to fly?
Apparently, according to your previous message INS are prepared to give visas to unlicenced pilots to fly in the USA because - despite all the schools churning out commercial pilots by the hundred - there is a serious shortage of American citizens that are capable of doing the job.
That is what you meant, isn't it?
Come on - come and get a job (or stop talking b******s).
I'm still curious as to why no response from SFT management or follow up from Ambassador.
Have you considered using their connections (NOT affiliations) to get yourself a flying job with BA - or maybe coming out to the USA to fly?
Apparently, according to your previous message INS are prepared to give visas to unlicenced pilots to fly in the USA because - despite all the schools churning out commercial pilots by the hundred - there is a serious shortage of American citizens that are capable of doing the job.
That is what you meant, isn't it?
Come on - come and get a job (or stop talking b******s).
I'm still curious as to why no response from SFT management or follow up from Ambassador.