Flight Training in the U.S.A.
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Flight Training in the U.S.A.
Has anybody tried the 'International Flight Training Academy' which is in Naples and Stuart in Florida ?
I am particularly interested in thier approach to the whole visa issue , which is so well documented within this forum. They seem very confident that a visa is not required ?
Any ideas ?
Try the website and see ..
www.IntlFlight.com
I am particularly interested in thier approach to the whole visa issue , which is so well documented within this forum. They seem very confident that a visa is not required ?
Any ideas ?
Try the website and see ..
www.IntlFlight.com
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Unless they can show you evidence of their communications from the INS in Miami I would be very suspicious.
That is just a personal recommendation.
Another would be to do a search on this forum on IFTA.
That is just a personal recommendation.
Another would be to do a search on this forum on IFTA.
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I would suggest you read this thread:
Hour building in US...You need a Visa !
I too saw the IFTA Website and at first it looked very attractive. After doing my homework, it seems that IFTA is the only school with this information and it is the exact opposite of what the U.S. Embassy in London told me.
You might want to start your homework by giving the U.S. Embassy a jingle at 0207 499 9000.
TTF
Hour building in US...You need a Visa !
I too saw the IFTA Website and at first it looked very attractive. After doing my homework, it seems that IFTA is the only school with this information and it is the exact opposite of what the U.S. Embassy in London told me.
You might want to start your homework by giving the U.S. Embassy a jingle at 0207 499 9000.
TTF
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Thanks for the interest in my original post. It's all a bit academic anyway , I have booked a course with Orlando Flight Training after having visited them in May this year.
I have spoken to the US embassy in London. They confirmed what you all said and I believed to be the facts.
Thanks again and hopefully I will be in Florida soon. Can't wait !!
I have spoken to the US embassy in London. They confirmed what you all said and I believed to be the facts.
Thanks again and hopefully I will be in Florida soon. Can't wait !!
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Barry - "Facts" got there first...but....
Why do you disregard the propaganda from IFTA saying that you do not need a visa - which I'm sure you know you do (from reading your messages) - but then sign up with another school that do not have visa approval and have had many students turned back at Orlando airport??
No doubt they have told you "Just say that you are coming on holiday, DO NOT mention flight training, and do not carry any flight training books or magazines in you luggage"
Both Immigration and Customs at Orlando (and every other International airport) are watching closely for single males coming on a three or four week holiday on their own - they are not stupid.
OFT are so well aware that a visa IS required that they have bought out another flying school in the hope that they can transfer the visa approval - they are lying to you before you give them any money, imagine what they will do to you if you do make it through Immigration.
Why do you disregard the propaganda from IFTA saying that you do not need a visa - which I'm sure you know you do (from reading your messages) - but then sign up with another school that do not have visa approval and have had many students turned back at Orlando airport??
No doubt they have told you "Just say that you are coming on holiday, DO NOT mention flight training, and do not carry any flight training books or magazines in you luggage"
Both Immigration and Customs at Orlando (and every other International airport) are watching closely for single males coming on a three or four week holiday on their own - they are not stupid.
OFT are so well aware that a visa IS required that they have bought out another flying school in the hope that they can transfer the visa approval - they are lying to you before you give them any money, imagine what they will do to you if you do make it through Immigration.
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Barry,
Having recently been to Florida to do some flying training and hearing all the horror stories about students coming over to fly with certain schools, after being told not to bring a Visa, I would highly recommend getting an M-1 Visa to do your flying training. Naples Air Center have written a very good post on exactly what is needed when going to Florida to train or just to fly. I would highly recommend reading it, you will find all the information there. Personally, if a school in Florida told me I did not need a Visa to train over in America - even after all the recent events - then I would not touch them with a very very long pole!
I spoke to someone who signed up for a PPL course at a particular FTO in Florida, who advised him he did not need a Visa. He was subsequently turned away at immigration.
Besides think about it - the cost of an M-1 Visa or the cost of losing all the money you have invested in the "getting over there" and not to mention the cost of the disappointment you would face at the airport when immmigaration turn you away. Just make sure you leave plenty of time to get the visa as I know the US embassy are being particularly cautious at the moment and taking a wee bit longer than they probably should.
Oh and just one final point - Hi Gonewest. How's the crabshack?
Many regards and hope this helps,
Rossco
Having recently been to Florida to do some flying training and hearing all the horror stories about students coming over to fly with certain schools, after being told not to bring a Visa, I would highly recommend getting an M-1 Visa to do your flying training. Naples Air Center have written a very good post on exactly what is needed when going to Florida to train or just to fly. I would highly recommend reading it, you will find all the information there. Personally, if a school in Florida told me I did not need a Visa to train over in America - even after all the recent events - then I would not touch them with a very very long pole!
I spoke to someone who signed up for a PPL course at a particular FTO in Florida, who advised him he did not need a Visa. He was subsequently turned away at immigration.
Besides think about it - the cost of an M-1 Visa or the cost of losing all the money you have invested in the "getting over there" and not to mention the cost of the disappointment you would face at the airport when immmigaration turn you away. Just make sure you leave plenty of time to get the visa as I know the US embassy are being particularly cautious at the moment and taking a wee bit longer than they probably should.
Oh and just one final point - Hi Gonewest. How's the crabshack?
Many regards and hope this helps,
Rossco
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Yeah, I had enrolled before I really understood just HOW complicated and difficult the whole visa thing was. I have only paid a deposit and I am now waiting events. Very frustrating and I suppose, ultimately, avoidable. I am waiting for thier approval to issue visas.
Anyone any idea just how long that might take ? No, seems the answer from OFT.
But I live in hope. !!
Again thanks for the interest/suggestions.
Anyone any idea just how long that might take ? No, seems the answer from OFT.
But I live in hope. !!
Again thanks for the interest/suggestions.
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You definately need a visa. You will be sent back on the first plane if you arrive without (in the luggage compartment too 
)
The visa will take 3-4 working weeks to arrive via post from the US Embassy. This means that you can't go across the pond and then wait for your visa to arrive. You MUST have it in the hand. Anyhow, it gives you a head start on to brushing up your theory while you wait for the visa to arrive.
Has anyone heard reports from either Comair or Naples Air Centre? Both seem like good outfits to squeeze in a PPL at this time of year. I only know of one person who did their CPl at NAC and they had high praise indeed.
Thanks in advance!
Craggs
)The visa will take 3-4 working weeks to arrive via post from the US Embassy. This means that you can't go across the pond and then wait for your visa to arrive. You MUST have it in the hand. Anyhow, it gives you a head start on to brushing up your theory while you wait for the visa to arrive.
Has anyone heard reports from either Comair or Naples Air Centre? Both seem like good outfits to squeeze in a PPL at this time of year. I only know of one person who did their CPl at NAC and they had high praise indeed.
Thanks in advance!
Craggs
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Barry - I am NOT joking when I suggest it is likely to be about two years.
I say again - NOT joking - TWO YEARS.
Ask them for a refund (why did you have to pay a deposit??, for what??) and when you hear the response you will have your second reason for not wanting to train with them.
I say again - NOT joking - TWO YEARS.
Ask them for a refund (why did you have to pay a deposit??, for what??) and when you hear the response you will have your second reason for not wanting to train with them.
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The deposit was paid to ensure that I got the course I wanted (VIP PPL 'one on one' 2 week course) at the time I wanted, i.e. last September. I booked my airline ticket, holidays from work etc...and not much else happened.
I did get books, flight case etc.. through the post , ready for action!!??
After many e-mail's I came to the conclusion that this wasn't going to happen, not 'legally' anyway. A couple of phone calls later, various 'suggestions' made (nudge nudge, wink wink!!) and here I am.
My concern about 'misleading' the immigration official (the suggestion) is that if I am refused entry once, then in future I have to declare it whenever I enter the USA, even for a holiday.
I thought OFT was in some way connected with CABAIR in the UK ? They seem to have something of a 'pompous' reputation ? Doesn't add up really , does it ??
I did get books, flight case etc.. through the post , ready for action!!??
After many e-mail's I came to the conclusion that this wasn't going to happen, not 'legally' anyway. A couple of phone calls later, various 'suggestions' made (nudge nudge, wink wink!!) and here I am.
My concern about 'misleading' the immigration official (the suggestion) is that if I am refused entry once, then in future I have to declare it whenever I enter the USA, even for a holiday.
I thought OFT was in some way connected with CABAIR in the UK ? They seem to have something of a 'pompous' reputation ? Doesn't add up really , does it ??
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Ah - the two week PPL course.
I've seen one person manage it - and they were NOT happy with the school.....nor did they get the "dedicated aircraft/unrestricted access" that they were promised.
I've seen other people not manage it - and return to the UK without the licence.
Sorry to hear that you have been caught up in it. If that is the course you want (PPL in two weeks) - then you'll have to stick with OFT, nobody else would attempt to offer it.
With regard to your comment....
...don't worry about having to admit it.........it will be stamped in big letters in your passport "REFUSED ENTRY" - they will know without your admission.
Again, truly sorry to hear that you have been caught up in it.
I've seen one person manage it - and they were NOT happy with the school.....nor did they get the "dedicated aircraft/unrestricted access" that they were promised.
I've seen other people not manage it - and return to the UK without the licence.
Sorry to hear that you have been caught up in it. If that is the course you want (PPL in two weeks) - then you'll have to stick with OFT, nobody else would attempt to offer it.
With regard to your comment....
if I am refused entry once, then in future I have to declare it
Again, truly sorry to hear that you have been caught up in it.
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What reputation ? Cabair don't have a very good track record for customer service in the U.K. - check previous threads regarding this organisation .
Interestingly , I was recently refused entry at MCO whilst using an M1 visa on the grounds that it was only valid for entry through MIA . Told to go to the back of the line & complete a Visa Waiver form . Was then admitted by the same INS officer . I didn't realise that the visa was port sensitive , my mistake , however it does make a mockery of the current visa regulations .
Interestingly , I was recently refused entry at MCO whilst using an M1 visa on the grounds that it was only valid for entry through MIA . Told to go to the back of the line & complete a Visa Waiver form . Was then admitted by the same INS officer . I didn't realise that the visa was port sensitive , my mistake , however it does make a mockery of the current visa regulations .
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Johnny 7 - I wasn't aware that visas are geographical (except in certain, particular, circumstances - which are not relevant to M1's)
Curious to know how/why (delete as appropriate) you got a visa valid for travel through MIA but then flew into MCO to use it....did you change your mind as to which school you wanted to use??...or using a previously issued visa for a second trip??
You found a loophole that could be used by somebody else??
Curious to know how/why (delete as appropriate) you got a visa valid for travel through MIA but then flew into MCO to use it....did you change your mind as to which school you wanted to use??...or using a previously issued visa for a second trip??
You found a loophole that could be used by somebody else??
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Having been refused entry at Orlando in June after being given wrong advice about visa's I can vouch for everything gonewest and the rest have said.
As well as loosing the flight money and having to now get a visa even if I want to take the kids to disneyworld, the most embarrasing bit was being photographed and fingerprinted by INS and then being escorted back to the plane, through the waiting passengers) by a guard who announced to the cabin crew (and any other passenger within earshot) that I was being returned and that I was not to be given my passport and other paperwork back until we had landed in Manchester.
At least I was able to proove I was not intentionally trying to get in without the documentation, so they went quite easy on me, firstly because I had announced to the INS person at the desk that I was there for flight training and secondly I had paper copies of all the emails I had received from the school, including the one which said I didn't need a visa because I was going to be doing less than a certain number of hours a week.
Having heard a girl in the next office being given the third degree after she tried to get back in with a dodgy visa I am glad I didn't try to bluff my way in. Also if you lie to them, you can get up to 5 years in jail if they decide they want to make an example of someone.
As well as loosing the flight money and having to now get a visa even if I want to take the kids to disneyworld, the most embarrasing bit was being photographed and fingerprinted by INS and then being escorted back to the plane, through the waiting passengers) by a guard who announced to the cabin crew (and any other passenger within earshot) that I was being returned and that I was not to be given my passport and other paperwork back until we had landed in Manchester.
At least I was able to proove I was not intentionally trying to get in without the documentation, so they went quite easy on me, firstly because I had announced to the INS person at the desk that I was there for flight training and secondly I had paper copies of all the emails I had received from the school, including the one which said I didn't need a visa because I was going to be doing less than a certain number of hours a week.
Having heard a girl in the next office being given the third degree after she tried to get back in with a dodgy visa I am glad I didn't try to bluff my way in. Also if you lie to them, you can get up to 5 years in jail if they decide they want to make an example of someone.
Last edited by PPRuNe Towers; 17th Oct 2002 at 22:17.
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Andy,
Can you tell me which school told you to come in without the visa and sent you paperwork telling you that you did not need one? I just want to know, since I am looking at schools now and I want to avoid them.
TTF
Can you tell me which school told you to come in without the visa and sent you paperwork telling you that you did not need one? I just want to know, since I am looking at schools now and I want to avoid them.
TTF
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Now that visa story really worries me. I was sure that I had done the right thing in 're-scheduling' my PPL course pending provision of a visa. Now I know Iwas right !!
What really concerns me is that certain people tell you to go and don't worry about a visa.
Here we are hoping to learn fly, to join the elite, the professionals, as it were, and we start by lying our way into the USA ? I don't think so !
What really concerns me is that certain people tell you to go and don't worry about a visa.
Here we are hoping to learn fly, to join the elite, the professionals, as it were, and we start by lying our way into the USA ? I don't think so !
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GoneWest
My entry through MCO was a repeat trip which arose through a requirement to return to the U.K. for a couple of weeks following some training in Miami . I'm not entirely sure that an M1 was strictly correct as I wasn't really a student , however this was the visa that was issued ( organised by my employer ) , & at the time I was really none the wiser . I'm also not sure that a visa of this type is geographically sensitive but the INS officer was insistant that the visa waiver was the appropriate protocol on this occasion .
You mention ' loophole ' in your post ; I would suggest that moreover my case was nothing less than ignorant deception on the grounds that I really ought to have had a higher level visa & had completed my dealings with the Miami operation , hence had no reason to return using the M1 . I genuinely knew no better having taken the best advice I had from my company , but really it was no better than misleading the INS by claiming to be on vacation . I told the truth though , & the result was , perhaps , testament to my honesty ( again , all be it ignorantly ) .
I would like to reiterate the point made by yourself & others here : Do not jeopardise your unrestricted passport category by attempting to enter the U.S. without the correct paperwork - if your passport is endorsed with a refused entry stamp , it may at best limit your visits to the U.S. for recreation & possibly restrict your future employment with an airline .
My entry through MCO was a repeat trip which arose through a requirement to return to the U.K. for a couple of weeks following some training in Miami . I'm not entirely sure that an M1 was strictly correct as I wasn't really a student , however this was the visa that was issued ( organised by my employer ) , & at the time I was really none the wiser . I'm also not sure that a visa of this type is geographically sensitive but the INS officer was insistant that the visa waiver was the appropriate protocol on this occasion .
You mention ' loophole ' in your post ; I would suggest that moreover my case was nothing less than ignorant deception on the grounds that I really ought to have had a higher level visa & had completed my dealings with the Miami operation , hence had no reason to return using the M1 . I genuinely knew no better having taken the best advice I had from my company , but really it was no better than misleading the INS by claiming to be on vacation . I told the truth though , & the result was , perhaps , testament to my honesty ( again , all be it ignorantly ) .
I would like to reiterate the point made by yourself & others here : Do not jeopardise your unrestricted passport category by attempting to enter the U.S. without the correct paperwork - if your passport is endorsed with a refused entry stamp , it may at best limit your visits to the U.S. for recreation & possibly restrict your future employment with an airline .