The ground school with the highest first time pass rate this year.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 79
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From: UK
The ground school with the highest first time pass rate this year.
Cranfield Air Training School (CATS).
This is (I think) a relatively new groundschool, based at Cranfield.
They say they have the highest first time pass rate in the UK this year!
Just wondered if anyone has any opinions or experiences of them.
Cheers,
IH
This is (I think) a relatively new groundschool, based at Cranfield.
They say they have the highest first time pass rate in the UK this year!
Just wondered if anyone has any opinions or experiences of them.
Cheers,
IH
Chieftan o'the Pudden Race
Joined: Nov 1997
Posts: 826
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From: Scotland usually, and often other parts of Europe
They say they have the highest first time pass rate in the UK this year!
Lies, damned lies and statistics. Check out all claims by any flight training organisation. you will be spending a large amount of time and money with an FTO, so always talk to former customers, and not just the ones that the school provides. You have to feel comfotable with your surroundings and instructors. Don't just go with the glib sound bite adverts.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 79
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From: UK
Does anyone actually know anything about the school?
I realise that I need to check out all such claims very carefully.
Infact... that's what I'm doing right now!!
I'm seeing if there are any 'former customers' out there, browsing pprune, who might be able to comment on the standard of tuition etc.
Can anyone confirm whether it is 4 Forces under a new name, as suggested above.
There is a more detailed statistic on their website: www.cranfieldaviation.co.uk
CATS scored 80% first time pass rate in it's recent 42 papers sat at the March ATPL/CPL exam session at silsoe and gatwick.
I know we can pick holes in that statement - March isn't all that recent, and 42 papers is probably only a handful of students, but still, it isn't bad, and I doubt very much it's a lie.
IH
Infact... that's what I'm doing right now!!
I'm seeing if there are any 'former customers' out there, browsing pprune, who might be able to comment on the standard of tuition etc.
Can anyone confirm whether it is 4 Forces under a new name, as suggested above.
There is a more detailed statistic on their website: www.cranfieldaviation.co.uk
CATS scored 80% first time pass rate in it's recent 42 papers sat at the March ATPL/CPL exam session at silsoe and gatwick.
I know we can pick holes in that statement - March isn't all that recent, and 42 papers is probably only a handful of students, but still, it isn't bad, and I doubt very much it's a lie.
IH
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
From: Planet Earth
A suggestion:
1 - do a PPRuNe search on a) "first time pass rates" and b) another on "4 Forces"
2 - wait for the incoming (perhaps from from Oxford Blue, Send Clowns and Alex Whittingham) responses that might point out that 80% isn't the best & even if it were, there are other things to consider when making your choice, then...
3 - return to the result of 1b)
1 - do a PPRuNe search on a) "first time pass rates" and b) another on "4 Forces"
2 - wait for the incoming (perhaps from from Oxford Blue, Send Clowns and Alex Whittingham) responses that might point out that 80% isn't the best & even if it were, there are other things to consider when making your choice, then...
3 - return to the result of 1b)
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1
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From: London
CATS/4 Forces
Well, I'm a student at CAT's. And, I have a 100% pass rate. 4 taken so far and 4 passed. It is a shame that a school gets tarred with the same brush as a poor organization simply because it takes on the building and flagging students. I understand that you need to look good and hard at the school you go to so, to put minds at rest, CAT's is by no means just a re-branding of 4-Forces and I for one have nothing but praise for the staff and training material. However, I must say that their tea making facilities leave a LOT to be desired and the bar is too far from the building!
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 1,846
Likes: 4
From: Bristol, England
Its a fair cop, I did go a bit over the top arguing this point. The problem is when you see an ad you think it must be true, 'cause otherwise the Advertising Standards would stop it, wouldn't they?
Er, no. Not unless you complain to them, they won't. And even then you have to throw rocks at them.
Er, no. Not unless you complain to them, they won't. And even then you have to throw rocks at them.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: Surrey
The course I was on at 4 Forces has a 100% failure rate, in that the results were so bad everybody gave up and went to other schools.
It wasn't my intelligence that let me down, I went on to pass 11 ATPLS at first attempt and 3 at second attempt.
It wasn't my intelligence that let me down, I went on to pass 11 ATPLS at first attempt and 3 at second attempt.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: london
My experience
I think its time that someone said what actualy went on at 4-forces and how they are in no way linked to CATS.
I was a former full time ATPL student at 4 forces who ended up closing half way through my course. I thought I would have to pay more money to go to another flying school but was offered an entire new course at CATS for no extra cost through their current CGI at CATS. The only history that CATS has with 4 Forces is one of their instructors who used to work for them. The two main problems with 4 forces (who happened to be brothers) happly vanished and CATS took any student from 4 forces that wanted help, free of charge until they held the licence they payed for at 4 forces. In fact, the current CGI at CATS spent his own personal savings on getting students through their training until they passed.
Instead of listerning to the WISE WORDS!!!! of certain people here, why not spare £10 on petrol and go and see them. I went there last week to see how they were doing, not knowing that they had been chosen to train certain airline cadets. Put it this way, if paying for students from 4 forces out of their own pocket isnt a big enough commitment to students, then what is?
And before anyone speculates, No I dont work for them. They got me through my ATPL in 6 months with everyone passed first time above 85% (and im not an academic).
I was a former full time ATPL student at 4 forces who ended up closing half way through my course. I thought I would have to pay more money to go to another flying school but was offered an entire new course at CATS for no extra cost through their current CGI at CATS. The only history that CATS has with 4 Forces is one of their instructors who used to work for them. The two main problems with 4 forces (who happened to be brothers) happly vanished and CATS took any student from 4 forces that wanted help, free of charge until they held the licence they payed for at 4 forces. In fact, the current CGI at CATS spent his own personal savings on getting students through their training until they passed.
Instead of listerning to the WISE WORDS!!!! of certain people here, why not spare £10 on petrol and go and see them. I went there last week to see how they were doing, not knowing that they had been chosen to train certain airline cadets. Put it this way, if paying for students from 4 forces out of their own pocket isnt a big enough commitment to students, then what is?
And before anyone speculates, No I dont work for them. They got me through my ATPL in 6 months with everyone passed first time above 85% (and im not an academic).
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 17,503
Likes: 1,845
From: England
I was singularly unimpressed with Frode Iverson and his speech at the Balpa employment conference some years ago.
They ceased trading as I understand it.
There are at least 3 groundschools that I can think of that are:
a) established by some many years
b) have attracted nothing but praise on this site
c) have very commendable people working for them well known in the industry
d) attract 100+ students a year
Why? Why anyone would look elsewhere sometimes baffles me.
Good luck
WWW
They ceased trading as I understand it.
There are at least 3 groundschools that I can think of that are:
a) established by some many years
b) have attracted nothing but praise on this site
c) have very commendable people working for them well known in the industry
d) attract 100+ students a year
Why? Why anyone would look elsewhere sometimes baffles me.
Good luck
WWW
Last edited by Wee Weasley Welshman; 9th December 2002 at 10:39.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 157
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From: 20 ADD 10 CPT
I was also a former sudent at 4 forces, they went bust half way through my course. I thought I would have to find another school and pay for a new course.
But one of the CGI's called me up to say he would honor all ex 4 forces sudents.
Since then that CGI has given me a 2 week ground school and the opertunity to visit any time I please to sit in lectures, get me copies of CATS latest mock exams , which contain very accurate feedback questions, and full access to their Computer Based Training, which has vast resources of questions.
On two occasions he has even let me stay at his home (I live in London) so I could be at the school early the next day, to get through as much material as possibe to make shure I would be ready for the exams.
All this service at no extra expense.
CATS have helped over 100 students like myself, so seeing some of the comments here saying they are 4 forces with new name is pretty disgusting, after all they have done.
They are a great school with some very inovative training methods being implemented.
I personally would highly recommend them.
But one of the CGI's called me up to say he would honor all ex 4 forces sudents.
Since then that CGI has given me a 2 week ground school and the opertunity to visit any time I please to sit in lectures, get me copies of CATS latest mock exams , which contain very accurate feedback questions, and full access to their Computer Based Training, which has vast resources of questions.
On two occasions he has even let me stay at his home (I live in London) so I could be at the school early the next day, to get through as much material as possibe to make shure I would be ready for the exams.
All this service at no extra expense.
CATS have helped over 100 students like myself, so seeing some of the comments here saying they are 4 forces with new name is pretty disgusting, after all they have done.
They are a great school with some very inovative training methods being implemented.
I personally would highly recommend them.
Jet Blast Rat
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,081
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From: Sarfend-on-Sea
DillyDally
Doesn't really mean much: we each help students who have been to other schools (including Oxford), some disenchanted with those schools others just wanting a fresh point of view or didn't like the teaching in one subject. Some of our students do brush-up courses at those same schools. Apart from the core, approved course how a student who is struggling passes is very individual, and there are many options for non-approved supplementary training.
Island Hopper
The best advice here yet is (as I always counsel) visit a few schools. Check out the people and the atmosphere, talk to some students. Look at the notes as well (note 4-Forces old notes were used for a long time by a couple of other schools, whose students have told me they were considered so bad by the instructors that they were rarely referred to. This may be the sole origin of the bad reputation of 4-Forces, and has probably been addressed. In the beginning of JAA all schools had problems with notes, so the problem was not unique, these just had not been updated as all the rest have been. If they are using the old notes ask them how they have been developed over the last 3 years).
Do read the recommendations here too, but read around about a few schools, don't fix on one (if it is distance learning you are after we at BCFT cannot help yet, but obvious options are Bristol, GTS and Oxford).
Doesn't really mean much: we each help students who have been to other schools (including Oxford), some disenchanted with those schools others just wanting a fresh point of view or didn't like the teaching in one subject. Some of our students do brush-up courses at those same schools. Apart from the core, approved course how a student who is struggling passes is very individual, and there are many options for non-approved supplementary training.
Island Hopper
The best advice here yet is (as I always counsel) visit a few schools. Check out the people and the atmosphere, talk to some students. Look at the notes as well (note 4-Forces old notes were used for a long time by a couple of other schools, whose students have told me they were considered so bad by the instructors that they were rarely referred to. This may be the sole origin of the bad reputation of 4-Forces, and has probably been addressed. In the beginning of JAA all schools had problems with notes, so the problem was not unique, these just had not been updated as all the rest have been. If they are using the old notes ask them how they have been developed over the last 3 years).
Do read the recommendations here too, but read around about a few schools, don't fix on one (if it is distance learning you are after we at BCFT cannot help yet, but obvious options are Bristol, GTS and Oxford).
