Trying to better understand the moduler route

[Jasseff]

Sorry if this post has been made 100’s of times before but I just needed to better understand the moduler route. Also please ignore my other posts just because when I wrote them I was on strong (hospital) drugs due to an illness that thankfully dosent make me illegible for a class 1 medical. But I just have a few questions and assumptions that I would love to clear up.

- I have Irish (EU) citizenship and live in guernsy which gives uk citizenship so I assume I should try and get a duel EASA/CAA license

​​​​​​- I live in Guernsey so I should get a PPL here before leaving to get all the other licenses. But a bank offer an unsecured loan of up to 100k but with a repayment time of 5 years so I’m unsure where I can train and repay all that money In the time permitted any advise would be appreciated.

- my mum would like me to get a degree alongside my pilot training but I’m unsure on how much it will cost and when I could do it?

- how much would everything cost all in all I don’t really know maybe (45k-60k) what is a more educated guess.

as you can tell I’m not very educated on aviation but any advise or guidance would be greatly appreciated.

[paco]

I hear your mum, but a better strategy would be to get a backup qualification as an electrician or a plumber or similar that you can pick up or drop off quickly. Also, it depends on the degree - a Master's in underwater basket weaving would not be of much use anyway.

[Beaker_]

100% agree on the trade suggestion. Speaking as someone outside the trade, plumbers seem to be in especially high demand so you should have no problem getting work if needed, especially if you have builder friends or letting agents/landlords who will subcontract out jobs. In fact, you'd probably be able to pick up work in the winter to keep your eye in when things are typically a little quieter in the aviation business.

You'd probably be self-emplolyed, so if you needed to fall back on your trade for whatever reason, no awkward questions at job interviews about you going back to being a pilot as soon as you're able.

As for the cost, like all things it keeps creeping up. You'd probably want £60k minimum if doing it today + living expenses, but wouldn't be surprised if if are another few thousand as the years move on.

A dual licence would be sensible in order to maximise employment options.

I think you'd be lucky to get a £100k unsecured loan. Banks will usually want some kind of collateral for that kind of sum, so best to get saving. Plenty of people have parents that will re-mortgage their house, but getting the money together yourself definitely demonstrates enthusiasm.

[Jasseff]

Sorry I should have added I am currently doing my A-levels and I thought there were some aviation based degrees you could get as you are doing your ATPL?? And no matter what I’m going to apply for as many of the cadet program opportunities there is but thank you very much for replying to my post

[rudestuff]

You can get a PPL anywhere. It doesn't have to be UK/EASA either. I'm guessing Guernsey is going to be expensive? You can get an FAA Private in about 4 weeks if you show up prepared, and having an FAA certificate will help keep your hour building costs down. You might also consider Spain or anywhere else that is warm. The weather is going to be your biggest enemy - what takes 12 months in the UK will take 2 months somewhere sunny, and time is money. You'll spend about 30% of your budget getting the PPL and ATPL exams, but that will represent about 75% of your time and effort.

Consider the time period between now and age 65 as a conveyor belt with the end representing retirement. What could you be earning in that final month? £15k? That's what you're losing every month that you delay following your dream, so get cracking!

[Jasseff]

I’ve looked into it and getting a PPL in guernsey costs 12k and I’m looking to do a duel EASA/CAA ATPL with Bristol ground school for 5k roughly where I can live at home go save on living costs during this time I’d like to be working in Guernsey as I can make good money even starting now I can pay for both PPL and ATPL if I work part time during doing my A-levels but still keeping all options open though

[VariablePitchP]

Originally Posted by paco

I hear your mum, but a better strategy would be to get a backup qualification as an electrician or a plumber or similar that you can pick up or drop off quickly. Also, it depends on the degree - a Master's in underwater basket weaving would not be of much use anyway.

Sorry but this ‘advice’ is handed out a lot on here and I’ve got to strongly disagree. It’s like telling a doctor to first become spend two years becoming a plumber, or getting a degree in accountancy. To ‘have a backup. It’s mental.

If you want to be a pilot, become a pilot. If in the unlikely event you actually can’t get a job, then train to do something. This outcome is pretty unlikely, same for actually losing a class 1. But even if it happens, it’s taken the exact same amount of time as training the other way round.

But 9 times out of 10 you will get a job and have a good career. So the 2 years you spent training to do an utterly unrelated course for no real reason has been completely wasted. As has the money spent on it. And that’s two less years making big bucks as a training captain at the backend of your career as Rudestuff has said.

As for aviation ‘degrees’. From what I can see, and having flown with people who’ve done them, they’re a neat way to get student loan funding but relatively useless otherwise. It’s the definition of a basket weaving degree and generally from universities that aren’t exactly academically prestigious. As a pilot you’ll pay back your student loan, so you’re not saving anything going that way.

Although one plus for the degree route is that if you get your 2.1 in ‘planes’, then that would at least qualify you for some generic grad schemes, just nothing that would require a ‘real’ degree. But again, your aim presumably is not to work for Aldi on their grad scheme, but to become a pilot.

[Chris the Robot]

Firstly, a repayment term of 5 years on a £100k loan plus interest is going to be over £20k per year, you'd have very little left to live on even if you got into somewhere like BA or easyJet. Starting as a turboprop FO would be nigh on impossible. Bear in mind that those who do the integrated schemes often have a repayment holiday for a couple of years (you can't pay it back until you are earning), that would likely add at least £10k in interest before you start repayments.

The TUI cadet scheme is currently open, BA and Aer Lingus are also likely this year. If you can apply for all three, plus any others which come up, I'd recommend doing so.

Regarding getting another trade first, the airline industry being dependent on discretionary spending has economic highs and lows greater than the wider economy. It would be useful for you to learn a trade which you can revert back to if you can't get a job after qualifying or if you are made redundant whilst flying. It would also give you more to talk about at interview.

Lastly, have a thorough check of the medical requirements and don't begin PPL training without at least a Class 2 and CPL/ATPL training without a Class 1. Some recommend getting a Class 1 from the start.

[Iflyplainplanes]

Originally Posted by Jasseff

as you can tell I’m not very educated on aviation but any advise or guidance would be greatly appreciated.

if you don’t know aviation, avoid.

if that hasn’t dissuaded you, fly for fun.

if you have to try and make it a career - expect to be flying as a flight instructor as a career for your life because not everyone makes it to the airlines.

try and get onto sponsored schemes if you can. If you don’t make it, maybe the universe (or the market) is telling you something.

Getting a job is hard. And once you spend 100k on qualifying expect to spend a few thousand each year keeping current and having your life on pause. Dont expect to be doing anything else ever until you get that first job.

Don’t borrow the money, if you save and spend your own money you are going to be more committed and serious. Working another job getting some other qualifications to fall back could be helpful. Even other aviation jobs will give you more exposure and understanding. There is nothing wrong with starting training at 22 or 25 or even 30.

There is no pilot shortage don’t believe the marketing from flight schools.

Also don’t just speak to pilots that made it to the airlines - talk to those that didn’t and why they didn’t. I always say this but survivorship bias is a real thing in this industry.